[26-Mar-2020] Philip's 341 Creditor Meeting - When what should be 5 minutes becomes an eternity.

[actually]

DSP is best known for fighting games

Phil could easily play fighting games on every (or nearly every) stream and probably do as well or better than he does now. He could do Sub Sunday, where he hosted lobbies for subs only. He could organize tournaments and broadcast them, providing commentary while watching the other fights (at least on games that allow viewing, which many seem to) and then awarding a token $25 Amazon giftcard to the winner (assuming that doesn't violate Twitch rules, obviously). By playing the same games, he should get at least somewhat better.

...If Phil makes this transition, I want 10%.

 

[FapCupFanta]

I know that the trustee has asked to see more of Phil's Paypal history, but in what manner does he have to produce this to her? I imagine if there is any possible way that Phil can hand in a doctored record to make his situation look less damning, he's going to do it. Considering that his bankruptcy attorney has done as shit of a job as shes has to this point, I wouldn't put it past her to just hand in whatever he provides to her. In a situation like this, would the trustee be able to petition for official records from Paypal's end to verify that she's getting correct information?

 

[TurdFondler]

Could you even imagine being that bankruptcy trustee? Most of her job is probably idiots defaulting on credit cards and car payments. Cut and dry, regular idiots doing idiot things. Her pay and hours probably reflect that.

Then Phil saunters in. A few minutes later she realizes that he's got multiple revenue streams, a complicated tax situation, and an empty void where the book keeping should be.

"Just fill these out as best you can, Mr. Burnell" she says, handing him the forms. It's technically not her problem if he lies, is it?

Also you could absolutely make the argument that games are CAPEX, as you could realistically stream the same game for 1+ years. The thing is capital expense write offs are complicated and don't come off your taxes as a lump sum, there's a formula for their depreciation.

 

[Spectre_06]

I know that the trustee has asked to see more of Phil's Paypal history, but in what manner does he have to produce this to her? I imagine if there is any possible way that Phil can hand in a doctored record to make his situation look less damning, he's going to do it. Considering that his bankruptcy attorney has done as shit of a job as shes has to this point, I wouldn't put it past her to just hand in whatever he provides to her. In a situation like this, would the trustee be able to petition for official records from Paypal's end to verify that she's getting correct information?

There's a good chance the trustee is ready to subpoena the PayPal records related to his accounts that they know about. If he doctors anything, then he's lying to the court, and--and least in Massachusetts--the trustee can move to dismiss the bankruptcy proceedings because the debtor is not acting in good faith. In short, it'd be a stupid--but very DSP--thing to do.

 

[King Daddy Telomerase]

If Phil doesn't provide what the trustee wants, she'll just dismiss him. Rochelle is getting paid either way. Remember that this entire process exists to benefit the debtor.

 

[King of Not Playing Games]

Creditors are allowed to ask any questions that are relevant to the case. Everything he asked was relevant, although he should have been correct and up-to-date with his numbers. I don't know or care if he's a real debt collector, so whatever.

I only care because he waltzed into the thread acting like King Shit of Fuck Mountain telling us we’d be ashamed of our words and deeds once we found out who he *really* was and his purpose for fucking with DSP during the session.

 

[I can't imagine]

Could you even imagine being that bankruptcy trustee? Most of her job is probably idiots defaulting on credit cards and car payments. Cut and dry, regular idiots doing idiot things. Her pay and hours probably reflect that.

Then Phil saunters in. A few minutes later she realizes that he's got multiple revenue streams, a complicated tax situation, and an empty void where the book keeping should be.

"Just fill these out as best you can, Mr. Burnell" she says, handing him the forms. It's technically not her problem if he lies, is it?

Also you could absolutely make the argument that games are CAPEX, as you could realistically stream the same game for 1+ years. The thing is capital expense write offs are complicated and don't come off your taxes as a lump sum, there's a formula for their depreciation.

At least as far as taxes go, it wouldn't matter much even if it wasn't an operating expense in this situation, since it would still be deductible under Section 179 and he's certainly under the deduction limit for that. It might matter for bankruptcy court, but I'm not sure they'd bother going that deep into the weeds when there's plenty enough already out in the open to attack.

 

[Richard Harrow]

the trustee can move to dismiss the bankruptcy proceedings because the debtor is not acting in good faith

I'm banking on this happening. It's blatantly obvious that he's doctoring things to squeeze in a Ch 7 qualification. To Phil, the burden of proof rests on the court, which in a criminal proceeding that would be true. Bankruptcy is inverted. The debtor is the one that needs to substantiate questionable claims. I'd be surprised if his Ch 7 goes through and from what I'm seeing, he's not likely to qualify for Ch 13 either due to his income.

 

[TurdFondler]

Phil isn't doctoring anything. He'd first have to sift through months of PayPal transactions, and then create a falsified set based on the real numbers.

If he was cooking the books he'd have started months if not years ago and he would immediately be able to answer questions about anything in his finances.

 

[architect]

I'm banking on this happening. It's blatantly obvious that he's doctoring things to squeeze in a Ch 7 qualification. To Phil, the burden of proof rests on the court, which in a criminal proceeding that would be true. Bankruptcy is inverted. The debtor is the one that needs to substantiate questionable claims. I'd be surprised if his Ch 7 goes through and from what I'm seeing, he's not likely to qualify for Ch 13 either due to his income.

Realistically, there isn't very much Phil can do to fool the trustee. Most of his tips are archived on his Youtube channel (and I have his videos archived anyway in case he wanted to hide them), so hiding income is out of the question. He will be banking on conflating his expenses on microtransactions/gacha with real game purchases. Again, his actual game expenses are all archived on his Youtube channel. If the trustee is half-competent, and she certainly seems to be, he will have very little room to manoeuvre himself out of this mess.

 

[Richard Harrow]

Phil isn't doctoring anything. He'd first have to sift through months of PayPal transactions, and then create a falsified set based on the real numbers.

If he was cooking the books he'd have started months if not years ago and he would immediately be able to answer questions about anything in his finances.

You can doctor claims through semantics. You simply apply the appropriate labels on certain purchases which is one of the methods of discrepancy. Phil knows at the very least that there are gray areas in bankruptcy claims. For example, his vest for tips goals. Does it fall under clothing or business expenses? These are labels he's willing to play around with. He even listed a handful of systems that he doesn't even utilize for his streams: PS3, Wii, 3DS, Vita, etc. What you mentioned is someone who actually put some thought into doctoring finances. Phil hasn't put that much thought into it; he simply said, "Well it's gaming related so I'll call it a business expense."

 

[AnOminous]

I know that the trustee has asked to see more of Phil's Paypal history, but in what manner does he have to produce this to her? I imagine if there is any possible way that Phil can hand in a doctored record to make his situation look less damning, he's going to do it. Considering that his bankruptcy attorney has done as shit of a job as shes has to this point, I wouldn't put it past her to just hand in whatever he provides to her. In a situation like this, would the trustee be able to petition for official records from Paypal's end to verify that she's getting correct information?

Why would she do anything other than turn in whatever Phil provides? It's not her job to police him. She's not being paid to fuck him over on behalf of his creditors. Unless he hands in some printout where he's scrawled in numbers in crayon and it's obviously fake, it's on him if he commits fraud.

I only care because he waltzed into the thread acting like King Shit of Fuck Mountain telling us we’d be ashamed of our words and deeds once we found out who he *really* was and his purpose for fucking with DSP during the session.

I'm not going to be ashamed of shit even if he turns out to be personally the CEO of Citibank.

 

[Kosher Dill]

Phil hasn't put that much thought into it; he simply said, "Well it's gaming related so I'll call it a business expense."

In fairness, does he ever play games (other than WWE Champions) when he's not being paid to? Dude hates video games. I think there's a fairly solid argument that all of his gaming stuff is a business expense, minus any "business" consoles that Kat also uses.

 

[Richard Harrow]

In fairness, does he ever play games (other than WWE Champions) when he's not being paid to? Dude hates video games. I think there's a fairly solid argument that all of his gaming stuff is a business expense, minus any "business" consoles that Kat also uses.

You raise a fair point. However the WWE Champs could be his Achilles' Heel in that regard. If his profit margin was so low, he'd have to explain why he could afford sweaty wrastlers and not making payments on time. Even if he pays in cash for gift cards, ATM withdrawals would need to be backed by receipt or proof of purchase. He doesn't have an offshore account (that we know of) therefore every dollar has a trail. He claimed insolvency on record starting OCT of last year and his WWE activity has been watched after the fact. Call me an optimist but I can see this being an issue.

 

[marlintan]

Could you even imagine being that bankruptcy trustee? Most of her job is probably idiots defaulting on credit cards and car payments. Cut and dry, regular idiots doing idiot things. Her pay and hours probably reflect that.

Then Phil saunters in. A few minutes later she realizes that he's got multiple revenue streams, a complicated tax situation, and an empty void where the book keeping should be.

"Just fill these out as best you can, Mr. Burnell" she says, handing him the forms. It's technically not her problem if he lies, is it?

Also you could absolutely make the argument that games are CAPEX, as you could realistically stream the same game for 1+ years. The thing is capital expense write offs are complicated and don't come off your taxes as a lump sum, there's a formula for their depreciation.

It's called an amortization schedule.

 

[King Daddy Telomerase]

I don't see the importance of this indeterminable time when Phil claimed insolvency. I can find videos back in 2016 of Phil knowing he was in terrible financial straits with crippling credit card debt. You can go back to before he moved to Renton if you really want to with his many credit problems.

 

[Kosher Dill]

I don't see the importance of this indeterminable time when Phil claimed insolvency. I can find videos back in 2016 of Phil knowing he was in terrible financial straits with crippling credit card debt.

What they were getting at with that question was, at what point did Phil know he was going to file bankruptcy, and that the debt he contined to rack up would absolutely never be paid? I don't know the exact legal consequences of this, but I'm pretty sure the new debts from that point onward would be considered "bad faith" in some sense.

 

[Homer Simpson]

Listening to the video I have to agree with everyone saying they wish no spergs would have interfered. Phil self immolating is best Phil.

 

[Schrödinger's Kat]

Yeah, he has a second Paypal account specifically to keep his tips separate from Twitch and Youtube payments (I'd transcribed this explanation elsewhere):

I didn't know this, until now. This is enlightening. It really does show that Phil is straight up trying to hide shit from the trustee. I'd love to see the look on her face when she gets to see this second PayPal with its ridiculous amount of income from wheelchairs. Amazing.

That's interesting, because personally I would consider buying new games a business expense, since his audience wants to see him play new games.

To clarify, I'm not saying he can't write off his game purchases. He can. What I'm saying is they don't qualify as O&N business expenses, so they don't reduce his income. And Phil is doing just that on his filing, which, on top of his gacha spending, is also wrong.

For the bankruptcy, the judge isn't going to let him say CAPEX are part of his O&N business expenses. And I am saying that game purchases and gaming hardware will all be considered CAPEX from an accounting perspective.

Also you could absolutely make the argument that games are CAPEX, as you could realistically stream the same game for 1+ years. The thing is capital expense write offs are complicated and don't come off your taxes as a lump sum, there's a formula for their depreciation.

His tax attorney could be reporting his game purchases as CAPEX and just amortizing them to zero in the same year by assuming a 1 year useful life, and gets the full write off. Phil has no idea how any of this stuff works since he just hands over the receipts. He just thinks everything is a business expense. The bankruptcy judge, and Nancy, will have a different opinion.

 

[marlintan]

I didn't know this, until now. This is enlightening. It really does show that Phil is straight up trying to hide shit from the trustee. I'd love to see the look on her face when she gets to see this second PayPal with its ridiculous amount of income from wheelchairs. Amazing.



To clarify, I'm not saying he can't write off his game purchases. He can. What I'm saying is they don't qualify as O&N business expenses, so they don't reduce his income. And Phil is doing just that on his filing, which, on top of his gacha spending, is also wrong.

For the bankruptcy, the judge isn't going to let him say CAPEX are part of his O&N business expenses. And I am saying that game purchases and gaming hardware will all be considered CAPEX from an accounting perspective.



His tax attorney could be reporting his game purchases as CAPEX and just amortizing them to zero in the same year by assuming a 1 year useful life, and gets the full write off. Phil has no idea how any of this stuff works since he just hands over the receipts. He just thinks everything is a business expense. The bankruptcy judge, and Nancy, will have a different opinion.

Trust me, having done many budgets, you have to be able to have a useful life for any CAPEX, I am unaware of any guidance from the IRS on games, but you would have a hard time proving that they do, in fact, have a useful life, so I'm more of the mind that it would be operating expense, like printer paper, it doesn't go bad generally.

EDIT: TLDR, I don't see how any judge would be able, or, want to quantify how a game may depreciate in Dave's numb skull how if it still has the same utility 20 years later (play the same game), just because he gets tipped less, doesn't mean the game is worth less, it hasn't depreciated, its not like a garage that has to get paved, or a roof that has to be periodically repaired. Dave is just as dumb as ever, and keeps rushing to the front of the line to prove it.