Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

[Gustav Schuchardt]

MedCram on oxidative stress prevention and risk factors

Coronavirus Pandemic Update 65: COVID-19 and Oxidative Stress (Prevention & Risk Factors)

COVID-19 Update 65 with critical care specialist and pulmonologist Roger Seheult, MD of https://www.medcram.com Dr. Seheult breaks down multiple studies that...

www.youtube.com

https://archive.vn/HI7xj

I fucking love these videos. In the last one, I thought 'I wonder what would happen if you just dosed sick people with Angiotensin 1,7' and I wished I had some Chinamen to experiment because you can't do that sort of thing on humans because of the fools and Luddites at the University Ethics Board. Well, it turns out actual Doctors have tried that as a treatment for preeclampsia, in hospitals who presumably got cleared by their ethics boards. You don't have to move into the sewers and kidnap homeless people to do cutting edge science. I've been severely lied to by that Sam Raimi film.

 

[simulated goat]

Dude. Meat packing plants at least here in spain (and presumably the rest of the EU) follow more than enough safety protocols than this shouldn't be an issue. I mean. Meat is a massive disease vector otherwise. Even when the hospital was having PPE shortages that made it look like it was a fucking WW1 situation where we just straight up can't afford to have sufficient gear for the task at hand so we're just sending in the fucking waves of expendables. The god damned food processing industry was up to prime condition. (Much to my dismay as we really did get the shaft in the hospital.) and even with those protocols some months ago we had 1 meat packing plant that decied to skim that shit and we had an epidemic before we could even locate and close that shit. (The owners got fined quite heavily once discovered. The cunts.) So if you're skimming it enough as a matter of course on north america than your packing plants are disease vectors...

Just think of it this way. Packing plant employees don't really interact much with each other. Much like most factories nowadays. Each has their station. So the one thing that consistently interacts with multiple people, is the meat itself. And yes, meat can be a vector.

Just saying, that's a serious cause for concern. Not gonna say there is no way it isn't something else. But, it's unlikely.

For one, one of the big packing plants, Smithfield, is apparently at least partially chinese owned. I wonder how many others are. I would not trust them to go overboard for protection for their employees. Second, many plants these days rely on imported labor. These guys often either live in dorms or ten to an apartment off site. Many of these workers are from groups who, sorry to report, have acted foolishly during this outbreak by ignoring warnings and are now experiencing the result. I'm not saying anything will happen, but it makes me a little uneasy to see.

I've noticed the price of pork creeping up here and there are no longer sales on pork or chicken. If any of you in US or CA have room to freeze I'd grab some now just in case.

 

[remiem]

The meat plants are two, in Canada. Cargill being the biggest. As far as I'm aware. It is however the largest single-site outbreak in Canada, a cluster of 1,200 people and counting- 821 of them workers. There's a whole shitstorm happening because they want to reopen. The two plants that are most affected supply 2/3rds of Canada's beef.

Cluster situations really do make me wonder what is going on with the spread. The meat plants are really curious as I would imagine people handling the meat should be masked. Having someone coughing or sneezing all over the beef their packaging wouldn't be 'good' even in the best of circumstances. Why is it so virulent in the meat plant though? There was another group of cases linked to a Curling Bonspiel, for doctors of all things, and another group was connected to a Rally Dinner. The Newfoundland cluster was connected to a funeral.

Did Cargill have some major employee event that facilitated this? because it's weird how other events didn't seem to cause nearly as many people infected. You wouldn't think workers in a meat packing plant would be so close together as to spread it that way, especially as people became more cautious and more government rules regarding covid came into effect.

 

[ColtWalker1847]

Cluster situations really do make me wonder what is going on with the spread.

Testing. Ask yourself this, is there any place where they looked and they haven't found it? Cases are so undocumented at this point anywhere can be a "cluster" if you just test it. A meatpacking plant. A funeral. A gathering at a park. The grocery store. The building supply. Anywhere.

Data is so incomplete at this point it is hard to get a handle on numbers unless the person is severely ill. We keep looking at tested cases for answers when we should be looking at the numbers of hospitalized. That is going to tell you where the clusters we need to be worried about are. It's just that it's shit we already know. Like nursing homes and retirement centers.

 

[Otterly]

What’s the temperature inside a meat packing plant? I assume these places are kept cool to cold? That will aid spread as well.
It’s probably multiple things - close living, close working, a colder atmosphere inside the plant. If they’re guys living in dorms then that will spread. If it’s guys going home to families, it’s more likely to be people living in poorer accommodation, with family members also doing the key worker lower paid roles - grocery, cleaners, care workers. More people to a house, shift work, it’s probably multiple factors.
Poverty aids spread - if you can’t stay home and do your job on a screen, you’re out among people. You’re working long hours, using public transport and living at higher density.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

Well. No. But I don't trust my dumb self not to touch my face while cooking.

Wash your hands after handling raw meat like you're fucking supposed to, and there will be zero problems.

The fact that this troubles you - troubles me. Do you often handle raw meat and then touch your nose or eyes with dirty raw meat hands?

 

[EmuWarsVeteran]

Wash your hands after handling raw meat like you're fucking supposed to, and there will be zero problems.

The fact that this troubles you - troubles me. Do you often handle raw meat and then touch your nose or eyes with dirty raw meat hands?

Do YOU know how many times you touch your face while cooking? I was being a bit hyperbolic in that now I do take a lot more care but I can tell you when I started paying attention to that shit after learning of the issue while studying biology I noticed I did it a lot. And having watched cooking shows I can tell you, people really don't pay attention to how many times they touch their face while preparing anything. Or commit many other acts that would be code violations for professionals. Specially tasting something and not disposing of the spoon, contestants do that one all the fucking time, it's actually disturbing. Either way, raw meat can be a huge disease vector, and not just because of actual negligence. There's a reason we do check for diseases on meat and milk products. Well. ISO following countries do at least. Looking at china...

 

[Barnard]

I recall something similar in the news: 300 infected workers in a German slaughterhouse (archive), mostly economic migrants, Romanians, Poles and so on. Interesting to see that the Cargill article says only one person died out of 1200. My link mentions no deaths and five people needing hospitalization at all.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

Do YOU know how many times you touch your face while cooking?

It doesn't matter how many times I touch my face during the whole cooking process, because I wash my hands after every time I touch raw meat or anything else that is potentially disease-carrying. And I specifically do not touch anything except the meat and maybe a knife or something during the raw meat handling. What are you trying to convince me of?

 

[EmuWarsVeteran]

It doesn't matter how many times I touch my face during the whole cooking process, because I wash my hands after every time I touch raw meat or anything else that is potentially disease-carrying. And I specifically do not touch anything except the meat and maybe a knife or something during the raw meat handling. What are you trying to convince me of?

I'm not trying to convince you of anything I just pointed out that we do routine tests to animal products because they are disease vectors and that one of the many reasons why is that people don't put enough care when cooking you're the one taking it personally.

 

[Otterly]

As well as colder air, I wonder if the air is loaded with bio aerosols from slaughter practices and processing?
I know someone I can ask about this. I will next time we speak.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

What are you trying to convince me of?

That we are all going to fucking die and you should shit yourself in fear because Carona chan is coming to kill you like a monster from an overly bloody 2000s D-rate Horror movie.

 

[CeleryStalks]

Michigan, USA

Our shut-down order remains in legal limbo. Rundown on the laws in question.

Attorney General Dana Nessel (D) has announced that she will be leaving enforcement of the stay-at-home order to local law enforcement's discretion, until the standoff is resolved in court.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/05/01/nessel-leaves-enforcing-stay-place-edict-local-cops/3066773001/

(archive)

Governor Whitmer has ordered that construction and real estate work may resume on May 7, with anti-Coronavirus measures to be taken.

Whitmer signs order allowing construction, real estate and outdoor work to resume May 7 in Michigan

Those businesses will be able to operate if they adopt a set of best practices to protect workers.

www.mlive.com

(archive)

A large Detroit hospital is going to resume normal operations, after having been held empty and in reserve for an anticipated surge in Corona-Chan's victims.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/05/01/beaumont-hospital-wayne-open-covid-19/3062877001/

(archive)

Spoiler: Michigan Recap

SHUTDOWN SHOWDOWN
Shelter-in-place order and shutdown of everything non-essential from Tuesday March 24 to Monday April 13. Friday, May 1, Friday, May 15 May 1, I guess, maybe? (archive) (executive order saved on KF) . The Republican-controlled legislature has refused to extend Governor Whitmer's emergency authority. Governor Whitmer insists her emergency orders are all still in effect (Rundown on the laws in question, follow-up). The legislature has passed a bill that would incorporate many of her orders into law, while not extending her emergency authority. She has previously said she will not sign any bill that limits her office's powers (archive). She has not yet signed or vetoed this bill.

OTHER SHUTDOWNS
Recap from NPR
Lawsuits against the shutdown order are multiplying (archive, archive). However, "all deadlines applicable to the commencement of all civil and probate actions and proceedings" are suspended until the end of the states of emergency and disaster. Executive order, and thus in limbo. (archive). Major protest at the State Capitol April 15 (A&N thread). Minor protest outside Governor's Mansion April 23 (archive). Protest at the State Capitol April 30 (A&N Thread).
The Big Three Auto manufacturers (Ford, GM, Chrysler) have closed all factories in the USA, putting well over 150,000 workers out of work. This figure does not include workers at supplier factories, which were also obliged to close. (archive) (archive) (archive). They are still making a small number of parts for emergency vehicles, and production of ventilators, etc. has begun (archive- GM's ventilators, April 17.) Ford is preparing to reopen (archive - April 26).

ECONOMY AND MISCELLANY
Over 1 million unemployment claims filed = 10% of the total population of the state, nearly 25% of the workforce (Archive - April 16).
Big Brother is watching, and he approves. Massive phone-tracking project reveals Michigan travel down by 45%, compared to 40% nation-wide (website) (news article archive).
Car crashes are down, fatal car crashes are down, and overall death is actually down. (archive - April 12)

FREE STUFF!
Evictions suspended while the state of emergency lasts (archive) Executive order. May or may not still be valid.
Water will be turned back on for all households while the crisis lasts (archive) Executive order. May or may not still be valid.

HEALTH CARE
Hydroxychloroquine banned by governor's order (archive). Nevermind LOL! Now she's asking the federal government for it and claiming the ban was a mistake in the first place. (archive). Detroit-area hospitals are testing the drug's effectiveness as a preventative on first responders and health-care workers (archive).
Elective surgeries are banned. Maybe? Who knows. If/when in effect, abortions were not included in the ban (thread).
Up-to-date count of available hospital beds, etc. in the State (the Detroit area is "Section 2, North and South.")(government website)
Detroit field hospital admits first 8 Corona patients. It will only be taking the less-serious cases. No one on ventilators.(archive - April 14)
Another field hospital in Detroit scaled back after drop in cases. Original plan was to open with 1,100 beds. Now they are only going to open with 250, planned to open April 20. (archive - April 11).
Beaumont Hospital, in Wayne, resuming normal operations after having been emptied to prepare for a Corona surge that has not yet arrived. (archive)
Our statistics are inaccurate, because deaths are being both overcounted and undercounted (archive).

LAW AND ORDER
All localities given more discretion to release prisoners early (archive). It was an executive order. Who knows if it's still valid?
Lansing (the capitol) police are not physically responding to minor crimes such as larceny, property damage, and break-ins to unoccupied buildings, including garages. Other police are adopting similar policies (archive) (archive).
Detroit shootings up, but most other crime down (archive - April 30); Muskegon police report crime is up (archive).
Breaking the lockdown is a misdemeanor, punishable by $1500 fines and 90 days jail time. (Still valid???) Governor Gretchen Whitmer (D) has stated there will not be a "ramp up" of police enforcement (archive). The attorney general has left it to local law enforcement to close businesses, as her hands are full with price-gougers and con artists (archive). She is also leaving enforcement of the stay-at-home order to local discretion until the courts weigh in on it (archive).
The police cannot, at present, pull drivers over simply for being out during the shutdown (archive). Local police in the rural north and in Detroit suburbs have alike stated they will not be enforcing parts of the order (archive).

OFFICIAL DEATH TOLL

The State of Michigan reviews deaths and adds overlooked cases to the official statistics three times a week. 75 deaths were added today.

Regular reviews of death certificate data maintained in Vital Records reporting systems are conducted by MDHHS staff three times per week. As a part of this process, records that identify COVID-19 infection as a contributing factor to death are compared against all laboratory confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the Michigan Disease Surveillance System (MDSS). If a death certificate is matched to a confirmed COVID-19 case and that record in the MDSS does not indicate the individual died, the MDSS record is updated to indicate the death and the appropriate local health department is notified. These matched deaths are then included with mortality information posted to the Michigan Coronavirus website.

Detroit Metro (pop. 3,860,000 total; 1,796/sq. mi.; 694/sq km):*

30,247 confirmed / 3,254 dead
30,016 confirmed / 3,121 dead yesterday
(i.e. 133 new deaths, up 93 from previous day)
Normal Detroit Metro Death Rate: 104 per day.**

Other Michigan (6,120,000; 65/sq. mi.; 25/sq km):

12,960 confirmed / 766 dead
12,340 confirmed / 745 dead yesterday
(i.e. 21 new deaths, down 16 from previous day)
Normal not-Detroit Death Rate: 167 per day**

All Michigan (9,990,000; 103/sq. mi.; 40/sq km):

43,207 confirmed / 4,020 dead / 15,659 recovered
42,356 confirmed / 3,866 dead yesterday
37,203 confirmed / 3,274 dead / 8,342 recovered last week
(i.e. 133 new deaths, up 93 from previous day, up 18 without the adjustment)
(746 dead (down 220) and 7,317 declared recovered (up 2,212) since last week)
Normal Michigan Death Rate: 271 per day.**

Death toll doubled since: April 15.
We have been (were?) locked down since: March 24 (until April 30?),
Masks have been mandatory in stores since: April 27 (until April 30?).

Detroit Metro Daily Deaths Last Seven Days:
22 / 60 / 128*** / 84 / 89*** / 40 / 133*** = 589***

State Government site, daily - today's archive;
State Gov site, total, includes breakdowns by sex, age, race and ethnicity - today's archive.
*Here defined as the City of Detroit, and Macomb, Oakland, and Wayne Counties, minus state and federal prisoners, who are not counted towards any county's cases, but are kept in categories of their own.
** As of 2018.
*** 40, 40, and 75 statewide deaths, respectively, were added on these days upon State review. Presumably most were in Detroit, but I don't know exactly how many.
Also one Ann Arbor man allegedly killed by his roommate in a Corona-related dispute (archive). The suspect has been released from custody while the investigation continues (archive).

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Nice sunny weather today, lots of people out, nearly all are wearing masks/gloves Airing out comforters and hanging out on the fire escapes. Cats trying to get to the container of cat grass (I give them some but they'd destroy it if I let them).

On a more depressing note some bodegas have closed and abandoned their cats. I got a call from a rescue group asking if I could take a cat from a nearby store (which closed and simply tossed their cat outside where a former customer found her) but I'm taking care of a kitty from a bodega whose owner supplied me with food, litter and a fancy self-cleaning litter box. The bodega had to cut its hours back so he couldn't really care for his sweet girl like he wanted. I take her in a few months out of the year anyway when he leaves once a year to go back home. My apartment is a familiar place for her and I don't mind. It's depressing to find out how cruel and heartless some people are.

 

[RodgerDodger]

The meat plants are two, in Canada. Cargill being the biggest. As far as I'm aware. It is however the largest single-site outbreak in Canada, a cluster of 1,200 people and counting- 821 of them workers. There's a whole shitstorm happening because they want to reopen. The two plants that are most affected supply 2/3rds of Canada's beef.

Cluster situations really do make me wonder what is going on with the spread. The meat plants are really curious as I would imagine people handling the meat should be masked. Having someone coughing or sneezing all over the beef their packaging wouldn't be 'good' even in the best of circumstances. Why is it so virulent in the meat plant though? There was another group of cases linked to a Curling Bonspiel, for doctors of all things, and another group was connected to a Rally Dinner. The Newfoundland cluster was connected to a funeral.

Did Cargill have some major employee event that facilitated this? because it's weird how other events didn't seem to cause nearly as many people infected. You wouldn't think workers in a meat packing plant would be so close together as to spread it that way, especially as people became more cautious and more government rules regarding covid came into effect.

Honestly the spread in the meat plants is probably reflective of the asymptomatic spread in the broader population. They just got noticed due to increased testing. This isn’t “OMG! It’s in the meat packing industry!” This is “OMG! It’s literally everywhere and mostly benign except to the elderly and medically compromised!” Or to put it another way “it likely really is just the flu bro”.

 

[Synthetic Smug]

As well as colder air, I wonder if the air is loaded with bio aerosols from slaughter practices and processing?
I know someone I can ask about this. I will next time we speak.

I knew somebody who worked at a Conagra plant, and from the shenanigans and general environment he described it seems very likely.

He was working with pork. Beef and chicken practices might be different.

 

[JosephStalin]

Back from the Saturday shopping on base.

Got gas at base gas station. Many wearing masks. I didn't since I was outside. At $2.40/gallon, paid $20 for two weeks of driving.

Next, to the Base Exchange. Mask required. Bought a few small things. No tax. That's a buck the state of CA/county/town doesn't get in sales taxes.

Lastly, to the commissary. Mask still required. Still no guests allowed. Hope that will be made permanent. Still can only use one cart. Hope that changes soon. One cart disrupts my system. Things crowd-wise back to normal. Plenty of fresh beef, limited to 2 packages/patron. Almost no fresh chicken, but have some in freezer. Plenty of rice and water. Improving supplies of toilet paper/tissues/paper towels/napkins. Not all brands back yet, but will get there. Some thin shelves. Some things missing, like a certain type of sugar we use. No sweat. Next week. Jumbo eggs back to $1.80/dozen.

Starting to stock up on certain items that could get short next time. All things we would use anyway, just replace old one from stock with new one. Started with two boxes of salt and extra bag of rice. Get things some at a time. Stepdaughter planning to move out again next month (please! please! please! GO!), so that will be one less to buy for.


In other heartening news, Big Bill the Attorney General is telling the various little Hitlers to start backing off. Obama's AG Eric Holder would have told these little Hitlers to fuck us over even harder. Am absolutely sure of that.

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/05/02/ag-barr-catastrophic-danger-is-over-state-and-city-governments-need-to-back-off-915821?utm_campaign=bizpac&utm_content=Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_source=Get+Response&utm_term=EMAIL

AG Barr: 'Catastrophic danger' is over, state and city governments ne…

archived 2 May 2020 20:36:04 UTC

archive.vn

Added: Protests against Nazi Newsom's inhuman policies are growing. Check it out.

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/05/02/thousands-at-huntington-beach-stand-up-to-gov-newsom-say-data-doesnt-support-stripping-freedom-915831?utm_campaign=bizpac&utm_content=Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_source=Get+Response&utm_term=EMAIL

Thousands at Huntington Beach stand up to Gov Newsom, say data doesn'…

archived 2 May 2020 20:47:01 UTC

archive.vn

And I have reported the county "health director" to the DOJ over his unwarranted extension of our county's house arrest to 31 May. Hey, let's see what happens.

 

[Gustav Schuchardt]

On a more depressing note some bodegas have closed and abandoned their cats. I got a call from a rescue group asking if I could take a cat from a nearby store (which closed and simply tossed their cat outside where a former customer found her) but I'm taking care of a kitty from a bodega whose owner supplied me with food, litter and a fancy self-cleaning litter box. The bodega had to cut its hours back so he couldn't really care for his sweet girl like he wanted. I take her in a few months out of the year anyway when he leaves once a year to go back home. My apartment is a familiar place for her and I don't mind. It's depressing to find out how cruel and heartless some people are.

Sounds like kitty landed on her feet.

 

[Allakazam223]

As well as colder air, I wonder if the air is loaded with bio aerosols from slaughter practices and processing?
I know someone I can ask about this. I will next time we speak.

I knew somebody who worked at a Conagra plant, and from the shenanigans and general environment he described it seems very likely.

He was working with pork. Beef and chicken practices might be different.

Most raw plants have Lysteria pretty much everywhere. Is bovine tuberclosis spreadable by aerosolization? Theres a few different things I can't remember the name of as well, bacteria mostly.
Meat plants are usually kept below 3 celcius. Recircled air could have a huge part in infection rates. You don't constantly suck hot fresh air in, you keep recirculating as much cool air as possible.

 

[Gustav Schuchardt]

Most raw plants have Lysteria pretty much everywhere. Is bovine tuberclosis spreadable by aerosolization? Theres a few different things I can't remember the name of as well, bacteria mostly.
Meat plants are usually kept below 3 celcius. Recircled air could have a huge part in infection rates. You don't constantly suck hot fresh air in, you keep recirculating as much cool air as possible.

It's weird that loads of people eat beef from shitty industrial slaughterhouses and so few of them die to be honest. On the upside, I guess if you know what you're doing when you cook it, it's safe because you sterilize the surface which is where the contamination is.