Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

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A tale of 2 Governors

Why New York is so completely and totaly fucked compared to even Kalifornia, Worth a read.
That's a good assessment of what happened in NYC at the beginning although its too kind to Cuomo. Also interesting is the relationship between Breed and Newsom which allowed for a more coordinated response.
 
Went out last night to popular local Italian place here in central FL. It was at capacity 10 minutes after opening. Nobody, not even what we could see behind the counter (albeit not into the kitchen) was wearing a mask or gloves. Server was like, I can put one on if you want. We looked around and like...nah if we cared about that the logical thing to do would've been to walk out immediately.

Also, and this is huge...drove past a big Bingo parlor and it was wrapped the fuck up. Can’t see inside but only old people go there so it had to be packed with them.
 

This is a good article. Outsourcing so much that is critical is a terrible idea. Here as well we couldn’t buy paracetamol for weeks - it’s only just coming back into stores now. We’ve run down our previous stockpiles, and we’ve outsourced everything to countries that either have their own issues or are outright hostile.

there’s also the matter, not discussed in that article, about how public health authorities have been disbanded, merged or just defanged. Back in the day, vets used to inspect abbatoirs- now it’s environmental health (Who are skilled but not vets) , and places like halal slaughterhouses are permitted and nobody dares take them to task. public health bodies have been encouraged to turn their attention to lifestyle diseases and stuff like LGBTABCDEFG issues.

so not only have we lost the ability to produce essential goods, and create essential medicines, we’ve lost the expertise and organisation to deal with pandemics and public health in a rational way.
It’s worrying.
 
Welp time to answer your off topic rants. And get autism and dumb ratings for it. Yay.

The moment you know the whole Global Warming/Climate Change industry is a scam is the moment you find the key and utterly damning piece of scientific fact that a single volcano errupting, ANY Major erruption, puts out more CO2 and Carbon Polutants into the Atmosphere than the entirety of the Industrial Age to present. When Krakatoa went off a few weeks ago? Yeah, that was more than Humans have ever put into the atmosphere.

Now. Not ALL the climate change industry is a scam. CO2 definitely does make the climate go apeshit by warming the atmosphere. And some segments of scientific community, specially most of it here in europe, have stayed honest when dealing with it. (NOTE: MOST. NOT ALL.) Issue is politicians reward coreuption. Most obvious example being france's climate change "experts", that fucking cesspit of scum and villany.

Shit is. If you saw how Costa del Sol is farring you'd see. Up until like half a decade ago we didn't even have mist. Now it's here every year. Every year our spring brings forth bigger storms. This years' was fucking insane! If shit keeps going down this way we're gonna have a typhoon season like the fucking caribean. So climate change? Definitely a thing.

Now of course then comes the thing about human influence. We do have SOME influence. I mean every emission by definition counts. But most of the human effect comes from the third world (specially india and china) and even then, well, animals exist. And breathing is a thing. So CO2 change would be hard to control even without fossil fuels.

I'd say the most obvious factor in CO2 accumulation is actually deforestation. Plants eat CO2. We hsve less and less plants with time. And Bolsonaro sure as shit can't be trusted to keep the Amazon alive so it's damned time we start thinking how we get a new lung 'cause that one's collapsing!

So I'd say plantation efforts will be the biggest game changer, not emission reduction. But there is one even larger weapon in our arsenal: bioengineering. Plants after all like it or not take a lot of space. But if you can get one large hydroponics plant filled with bioengineered photosynthetic organisms, you can do the same job as the amazon forest in a volume as small as a single skyscrapper. You'd think this is crazy future tech but in fact "superplants" and bioengineered CO2 anihilators already exist and we could be doing it right now. Furthermore. Even without bioengineering "carbon capture" atmospheric filtration plants already exist and can give us liquid CO2 which has industrial applications. So. Yeah... We're already fighting the good fight there. And if those efforts keep building up not only will we manage to reverse climate change, we can start directly controlling carbon accumulation for the foreseeable future in a way that's PROFITABLE to boot! Win win I'd say.

Furthermore. Most deforestation comes from increasing farms size. So why exactly are we not only not redoubling our efforts to make them as profitable as possible per square area through technomogy but our politicians are indeed favoting "organic" farms that take the widest area for the least production with no tangible benefit whatsoever? Now that sounds like the opposite of what we should be doing. Doesn't it? So why are we NOT doing that as much as we honestly should? And why are we not redoubling plantation efforts in 1st world countries when that can also increase our GDP as natural reserves are quite good for tourism and tend to increase living conditions by controling regional atmospheric variables? Oh you know exactly why. For now all our politicians care about is that CO2 taxes make a lot of fucking money and that so long as biotech is fought against france and the so called "organic" farmers don't have to worry about other countries destroying their economic model for good once and for all. That's fucking why. Which is why spain seems to be the only european country that cares about this shit and fucking hilariously enough good ol' 'straya is doing the most practical advancements in CO2 combating. And THAT is where the fucking scam is. It's about time we call out the so called ecologists for tying our hands and stealing our weapons in the fight against climate change.

This is a good article. Outsourcing so much that is critical is a terrible idea. Here as well we couldn’t buy paracetamol for weeks - it’s only just coming back into stores now. We’ve run down our previous stockpiles, and we’ve outsourced everything to countries that either have their own issues or are outright hostile.

there’s also the matter, not discussed in that article, about how public health authorities have been disbanded, merged or just defanged. Back in the day, vets used to inspect abbatoirs- now it’s environmental health (Who are skilled but not vets) , and places like halal slaughterhouses are permitted and nobody dares take them to task. public health bodies have been encouraged to turn their attention to lifestyle diseases and stuff like LGBTABCDEFG issues.

so not only have we lost the ability to produce essential goods, and create essential medicines, we’ve lost the expertise and organisation to deal with pandemics and public health in a rational way.
It’s worrying.

People need to learn to make a fuss faster. Stop being polite damnit! Before I thought spain was lucky that every time someone did something stupid shit over here seems to hit the fan at record speeds. 1 province decides to be lax on their regulation of meat packing plants for profit? One plant instantly fucks up and causes an outbreak and they are punished for it, being forced to go back to being as strict as ever. Illa decides to ignore ISCIII's advice? Immediate memeing as he says something outrageously stupid. Madrid reduces the nursing homes to glorified death wards? Corona cleanses them. The junta tries to launder money through los Pascuales? Heads are already rolling. Rajoi cuts healthcare up? Immediate hospital collapse. Etc.

But what I'm realizing more and more is, shit hits the fan just as much there too. Your old folks homes were just as bad as ours, if anything at least we fixed them now while yours keep being culled over time. Your meat plants aren't better than ours, they're laxer. I mean at least your conservative party hasn't tried butchering the NHS and I have heard little from british corruption. But ither than that, shit hits the fan just as fast in bongland as it does here in the autism peninsula. So, really, my conclusion is: You gotta stop being polite. you brits pride yourself on your manners. Well you know what? Fuck manners. Have you ever had your king quit? No? Well maybe you should every once in a while! Not all kings can be good after all. Just. If you learn nothing more from this, learn this. Like the all guardsman party said. Everyone above the rank of sargeant is an idiot, evil or insane. Probably all 3. You can't treat them like responsible adults. You gotta explain shit like their toddlers and expect them to fuck up anyway. Because they will. Repeatedly. Until they can't take the punishment anymore. Dealing with your boss, specially when it comes to guvernmental stuff, with respect isn't polite, it's retarded. And any and all issues caused by them should be treated with utmost prejudice. They're not gonna do better if you don't make them. That's just how it is. So stop trying to keep them happy, if they're happy they get cocky and complacent, and that's the worst thing they could be!
(For those who don't know what the AGP is: http://www.theallguardsmenparty.com/ )
 
So I was just checking on my state's reopening plans and found this shit:
View attachment 1302398
"new normal"
NEW NORMAL

NEW NORMAL
FINAL STAGE IS NEW NORMAL

BRB, brewing molotov cocktails.

edit: I did a tiny bit more looking and found this on mass.gov
View attachment 1302428
Until a vaccine. Fuck.

There will never be a vaccine. It's a Coronavirus. It mutates wildly and rapidly. There will never be a vaccine. This is a false hope to get people accepting of the "new normal" which is eternal authoritarianism.
 
There will never be a vaccine. It's a Coronavirus. It mutates wildly and rapidly. There will never be a vaccine. This is a false hope to get people accepting of the "new normal" which is eternal authoritarianism.
This is why I disallow the concept of new normals in my presence. The new normal is the same as the old normal, just with more death from COVID-19 and, depending upon where you are, a devastated economy it’ll take a decade or more to improve. I do not want to hear about new normals. You told me flattening the curve was the goal, not zero deaths or zero new infections or whatever. I am willing to have us watch the curve and make voluntary adjustments based upon movement, and am happy to have nursing homes operate under a great deal of restriction. But that’s it. That‘s the only change, going forward, that can be accepted as permanent, and therefore normal.
 
haven't been keeping up with the thread. but this whole thing really shows how few people give a fuck. Most of the people i know who were mocking the protesters 2 weeks ago were at house parties and beach parties and tailgates this weekend. The fact that most people in metropolitan areas already know not to call cops on their neighbors really makes this whole quarantine so ineffective.

I just listened to bastard radio (a podcast with two white faggots and a regular rican) and it was like nails on a chalkboard hearing the rican try to get it through their fucking skulls that once places start opening up people would just act like its February again. As white people the fags genuinely follow the laws and like all good 90s educated tards believe everyone else does too, and that minorities are just palate swapped white people.

He was literally looking out the window seeing people chilling in the street and they mocked him for thinking that NYC's streets aren't as underpopulated as fallout 4 right now. I've worked in enough restaurants to know no ones doing a fucking head count. And considering how much spit and air people expel while eating the fact that restaurants are even open should prove how useless the masks are.

Everyone is talking about white flight happening in the next couple years because of this virus too. again i have a hard time believing that, just based on the sort of tards that are currently in these places, this virus isn't going to spur them to move away so much as a lateral move. people moving from queens to brooklyn, from east to west la, from dupont circle to fairfax. or people moving from pasadena to austin. no one who is used to city life is deciding "suburbs are better" and even the idiots who make that case aren't following through, its amazing how many of these podcasters are full of shit once you get to know them.

I don't know how fucked the recession is either, i hear about how many people are unemployed and getting checks but that doesn't include the independent contractors and people making money under the table.

Overall though i'm proud coronachan is fistfucking the last half century of academic thought. LA should look like San Andreas right now according to them, it should be GTA all over the World because of how poor and desperate people are and that isn't happening. Same thing with carbon output and factories and all sort of other shit.

if places aren't going bankrupt in the next month, then its all an upswing from here. Also can we talk about the lack of a 2nd wave? people keep saying its coming up but even china isn't shutting everything down yet, they just had a huge week long holiday 2 weeks ago and this week should be when we start seeing a surge in cases in china if its actually going to be coming back, but it won't.

I'm still not buying the temperature thing either considering the two places fucked hardest from this was italy and spain, but on the off-chance that wasn't bullshit. We'll see a 2nd wave hit or at least stories about it close to halloween. the beginning of october china has another week long holiday and once that finishes up we also get day of the race in latin america in the middle of october so the media will scare us halloween week and depending on the facts we'll start seeing everything shut down in november or people realizing its a nothingburger
 
Why is staying at home for a few weeks such a problem? Why is it that all of a sudden everyone has a raging urge to travel when they barely left their municipality before? Strict quarantine laws worked for the countries that implemented them. I feel so fucking annoyed at the general disregard the representatives of some countries are showing. You can't just say "the number of infected is starting to drop so we're just gonna open everything up again without any consequences and pretend like nothing major happened", then act surprised when the number of cases skyrockets again.

My country borders a hotspot. When shit hit the fan, we closed everything down within a week and stayed at home for 8 weeks. Some people protested the stay at home order, but a great majority were smart enough to stay fucking home. It's a small country, but I have to emphasise the outbreak lasted only 2 months, only 1.5k people were infected and only 100 of them died. We're currently reopening schools for hs graduates and children under the age of 10, also public libraries and bars/restaurants.

Just stay home until it blows over, please.
 
Why is staying at home for a few weeks such a problem? Why is it that all of a sudden everyone has a raging urge to travel when they barely left their municipality before? Strict quarantine laws worked for the countries that implemented them. I feel so fucking annoyed at the general disregard the representatives of some countries are showing. You can't just say "the number of infected is starting to drop so we're just gonna open everything up again without any consequences and pretend like nothing major happened", then act surprised when the number of cases skyrockets again.

My country borders a hotspot. When shit hit the fan, we closed everything down within a week and stayed at home for 8 weeks. Some people protested the stay at home order, but a great majority were smart enough to stay fucking home. It's a small country, but I have to emphasise the outbreak lasted only 2 months, only 1.5k people were infected and only 100 of them died. We're currently reopening schools for hs graduates and children under the age of 10, also public libraries and bars/restaurants.

Just stay home until it blows over, please.

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Sweden is seen as a risk factor in the other Nordic countries: "We are out of step with each other"

In several Nordic countries, Sweden is identified as a cloud of concern in the corona pandemic. When the governments now plan to partially open the borders, there is talk of keeping Sweden out.

The different management of the corona crisis can have long-term consequences for countries' relations, believes Johan Strang, a researcher at the Center for Nordic Studies.

- We are out of step with each other.

The Nordic countries have handled the corona pandemic in different ways. Perhaps most attention has been given to Sweden's handling. It has been rewritten in media around the world - and has also received a lot of attention in the Nordic neighboring countries.

As we now begin to discuss how to go about reopening open borders, Sweden has become a talking point in Norway, Finland and Denmark. Several Danish parties in the Folketing have opened to open borders to Germany and Norway - but to keep the border against Sweden closed.

State epidemiologist Frode Forland in Norway told the Swedish Radio on Sunday that it may be relevant not to allow recreational travel between Sweden and Norway when, from June 15, Norway relaxes its travel restrictions.

- It sits the government and is founded on. You have a greater spread of infection in society now than we have and it has some logic to keep the boundaries closed if the spread of infection is different in the different countries, he said.

The Baltic states, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, have created a "travel bubble" which means that citizens of the three neighboring countries can travel freely between countries without having to quarantine. Finland is invited to join the cooperation - which could mean that Finland will have an open border with the Baltic States - but has continued to close to the Nordic neighbor Sweden.

After a meeting with the Nordic Council of Ministers, Finland's Interior Minister Maria Ohisalo believed that a "Nordic bubble" seems unlikely - and Sweden was identified as the problem.

"Norway, Denmark and Iceland have managed to stabilize their situations, in Sweden the situation is more alarming," said Ohisalo, according to Hufvudstadsbladet.

When Prime Minister Stefan Löfven this week received foreign journalists for a press conference, he was asked by Svenska Yle whether he was worried about Sweden's international reputation and its relations with neighboring countries.

- Of course it is important, Sweden is a relatively small country like the other Nordic countries. And we have a long history of solidarity, that's our legacy, that's why we're worried about this picture, "Löfven told Yle.

Johan Strang is a researcher at the Center for Nordic Studies at the University of Helsinki. He says that the Nordic countries generally have a very good relationship with each other - with high confidence in the other countries. But during the corona pandemic, Sweden has been seen as a "risk". And this is not the first time the other countries in the region view Sweden's actions as different.

- I have thought of this pandemic in relation to the refugee crisis in 2015. It was the first time in a long time that the Nordic countries came into conflict with each other on a popular level. Journalists and thinkers criticized each other. Sweden was thought to be naive - and also dangerous. Then there was also a thought that Sweden poses some kind of risk, says Johan Strang.

He believes that paradoxically it is an idea in the Nordic countries that Sweden is "too liberal". Johan Strang says the problem is that the Nordic countries failed to respond to the crisis in the same way from the beginning.

- And it is quite strange considering the many agreements that exist between the countries on such issues. For some reason, they failed to coordinate - and that may be because this crisis came so quickly.

That the early management of the crisis was not coordinated between the countries may have long-term consequences, says Johan Strang.

- Although Sweden would prove to be right in its strategy and get over the pandemic faster, the other Nordic countries would then become risk factors. We are out of step with each other.

In all the Nordic countries, media have compared death rates and strategies between countries - wondering who is doing right and who is doing wrong. In a headline, Denmark's radio writes that "Trump criticizes Sweden - and highlights Denmark". The Norwegian newspaper VG published a debate article entitled "Had we done as Sweden, Norway would have been bad looking".

In recent days, several Swedish media have had interviews with Norwegian infection protection experts and decision makers from the Norwegian Public Health Authority, where they discussed the different countries' choices.

Johan Strang says that we in the Nordic countries have a preference for talking about differences between Nordic countries:

- Within the Nordic region, we have narcissism about the small differences. We would like to inflate differences between Finland and Sweden or Sweden and Denmark but if you include a third country in the comparison, the differences often disappear.

He emphasizes that the entire Nordic region stands out in comparison with other European countries - if you look at how open societies have been. And we are becoming more and more equal in our handling of the crisis.

- The Nordic countries are converging a bit now - because they are gradually opening up in the other Nordic countries, while in Sweden the measures have gradually been tightened up. And that may be a step towards opening the borders.

This week DN wrote about "why the Swedes became public health patriots". The article mentioned how the Swedes would like to defend Sweden's strategy, and how researchers who question it are called "foil hats".

Johan Strang emphasizes that the development looks the same in all the Nordic countries.

- It is not only Sweden that has public health nationalism. After all, we have reached almost a hundred percent on the strategy in Finland - and the same in Norway and Denmark. But Sweden is often used as a counter-image in the other countries, he says.

He also believes that Sweden has a habit of being "more extreme" than the other Nordic countries.

- Both in Sweden and abroad you would like to see Sweden as exceptional and different - and that you have chosen this line supports that story. It would be inconceivable that Finland would act quite differently from the rest of the world - you do not have the confidence you have in Sweden, says Johan Strang.

But if the borders between the Nordic countries stay true, it can create problems for Nordic cooperation. Especially for those regions that depend on open movement between countries. Johan Strang points to Tornedalen and Skåne as two examples.

On Saturday, Philip Sandberg (L), the municipal council in Lund, wrote an open letter to the Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen in which he said that "a closed border between Lund and Copenhagen is the same as a closed border between Copenhagen and Roskilde". At the same time, the mayor of Danish Helsingör, Benedikte Kiær, has said that the closed border makes it tough for the city's traders.

- It's tough for everyone, but especially for Helsingör. Here we are used to the fact that there is a lot of life and activity because we are a border town and get a lot of visits from especially our Nordic neighboring countries. And especially from Sweden, he tells Aftonbladet.

Swedish Trade Minister Anna Hallberg told Expressen that the Danish parliamentary parties' reluctance to open the border with Sweden, but open to Germans and Norwegians, is a clear discrimination that is "not acceptable".

Researcher Johan Strang says that a longer closure of borders in the Nordic region would affect the region. Especially if we end up in a situation where the borders in the future may be closed at regular intervals.

- Then it will have a negative effect on people commuting across borders. And it is not at all good from a Nordic cooperation perspective - because then you can no longer trust that the borders are kept open, he says.
Fun fact: Denmark doesn't want to open the border to Swedes because of the infection risk, but because Sweden hasn't closed its border and Danes coming back from Sweden apparently don't get quarantined (unlike the other Nordic countries), they're free to come and go however they like. So here in the south we've recently started to see a lot of bloody Danes coming to do week-end shopping while most of Copenhagen is still closed down.
 
Fuck manners. Have you ever had your king quit? No? Well maybe you should every once in a while!

Not so much quit, more of a forcible firing. It didn’t work out terribly well the last time it happened, although I hear the restoration was a lot of fun.

the Brits are polite but we don’t like certain types of corruption. We of course have corruption just like everyone else, but the media (especially the good old gutter press) will mercilessly go after anyone corrupt.

where we fail is the same places everyone has - this slow creep, the slow changing of goalposts and slow slide towards the bottom. We see it everywhere. But it’s happened because people are comfortable. People go on about 1984 but the better comparison is brave new world. It’s not a jackboot on our necks, because if you repress and push people enough they will push back. It’s the tyranny of comfort. If people are comfy, fat, and stupified by social media, shit TV etc, they just can’t be arsed rebelling. Bread and circuses.
Once you start removing that comfort, you have problems. If the soma, TV, shiny gadgets stop flowing and if people can’t feed their families - that’s when people will revolt.
 
Why is staying at home for a few weeks such a problem? Why is it that all of a sudden everyone has a raging urge to travel when they barely left their municipality before? Strict quarantine laws worked for the countries that implemented them. I feel so fucking annoyed at the general disregard the representatives of some countries are showing. You can't just say "the number of infected is starting to drop so we're just gonna open everything up again without any consequences and pretend like nothing major happened", then act surprised when the number of cases skyrockets again.

My country borders a hotspot. When shit hit the fan, we closed everything down within a week and stayed at home for 8 weeks. Some people protested the stay at home order, but a great majority were smart enough to stay fucking home. It's a small country, but I have to emphasise the outbreak lasted only 2 months, only 1.5k people were infected and only 100 of them died. We're currently reopening schools for hs graduates and children under the age of 10, also public libraries and bars/restaurants.

Just stay home until it blows over, please.
Most people can't afford to stay home for prolonged periods. The government can't afford to pay them to stay at home for long periods. The only people who can really afford this for any length of time are the terminally unemployed, unfireable government employees, the idle rich, and prepper lunatics like me.
 
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