Debate user BoxerShorts47 on "strawmans" and logical fallacies, definitions of ephebophilia, how to MAGA, religion, Sailor Moon and more

@Ughubughughughughughghlug do you have any other hot takes that we might find hilarious informative? What do you think about ethnostates?

I think they’re a great idea but impractical to make. I think the idea of an ethnostate is sound, in that heterogeneous communities are more subject to social stresses. The reason (which there’s evidence for in game theory, among other fields) is that “tribes” will generally trend towards ethnocentric politics and the resulting conflict of ethnic interests impoverishes the society.

I do not believe that ethnostates are desirable because of the inferiority of any one ethnic group. I think it’s entirely possible that there are mental, genetic attributes that correlate with ethnicity, but I think that the historical record suggests that the impact of those are small enough to not be worth basing policy around.

The issue is also complicated by the tendency of groups to either combine in the face of new outsiders or divide in the absence of them. However, I think it’s almost axiomatic that groups which are more similar will get along better and with less conflict than groups which are less similar.

You can also attempt to create unity through non-ethnic means. Culture is much more important than ethnicity, but ethnicity is still relevant. Religion and ideology are strong tools, but religion is weak in the modern West and ideology can change easily. I don’t see proposition nations as being inherently bad, but they’re easier to fall apart than ethnostates are.

There’s also the perspective of Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore, that heterogeneity is bad in a democracy but irrelevant in an autocracy, which I’m inclined to agree with. Ethnic strife doesn’t really matter if the executive has the power.

The biggest problem with ethnostates is the human toll it takes to make one in heterogeneous societies. There is no way to move masses of people entirely voluntarily. At best you remove people from their homes, many of whom have been there for centuries. At worst, you have genocide.

it is better to avoid the situation by not allowing heterogeneity in the first place, to separate the regions before they mix too much or to not allow immigration on any more than a token scale. That’s only really practical for a small handful of countries, like Japan and South Korea.

I think what’s more reasonable is Balkanization into ethno/nation-states which are designed to provide homelands for each group in those lands where it is a majority or is predominant, but not to displace or curtail the rights of minorities living there. That’s not very different from the old 1800s, early 1900s approach of liberal nationalism.

@Ughubughughughughughghlug Thoughts on the death penalty?

I firmly support it, but I think it should be restricted to cases where you know without a doubt they did it, like when there were multiple disinterested witnesses. It should be done by hanging (as is traditional in America) as part of a voluntary public ritual.

I don’t view crime and punishment as REALLY being about punishment or rehabilitation, but rather about damage mitigation. When we jail people, it is neither about punishment nor rehabilitation, but a form of quarantine that keeps them away from us to minimize their harm. Execution is the ultimate form of quarantine since it permanently eliminates the source of harm. Public Hanging is a form of death which demonstrates the authority of the State while respecting the executed criminal and binding the community together in an act of lawful violence.

Execution would be the standard response to murders (but not a necessary crime), career criminals, treason, and the violently insane.
 
I am immensly suspicious of people claiming it's normal to wanna fuck teens as an adult. As an adult, the idea of having sex with someone whose brain hasn't fully developed is revolting, and to hold the views that it is okay means you are either predatory in nature or are such a manbaby incel that real women scare you.
 
I am immensly suspicious of people claiming it's normal to wanna fuck teens as an adult. As an adult, the idea of having sex with someone whose brain hasn't fully developed is revolting, and to hold the views that it is okay means you are either predatory in nature or are such a manbaby incel that real women scare you.

Your brain doesn’t finish fully developing, technically, until you’re 25. We don’t allow legal adults (old enough to be army cannon fodder) to drink (for both brain chemistry and judgment reasons) until 21.

The idea of brain development as an issue makes sense at a younger issue but it clearly become less important (diminishing returns?) as time goes on.

There’s also a distinction, which people like Sig don’t want to acknowledge, between passively finding somebody attractive versus actively pursuing them or having a preference for them. I agree that the man who has a specific preference for teenagers likely has a predatory nature*. I agree that the man who actually goes through on it is acting in an antisocial way (thus, the state punishes him). I think that the man who recognizes beauty but then goes on about his business, keeping himself to legal adults as he should, is not the moral equivalent of a baby-fucker.

*I say probably because there are also people who are not so much predatory, but are more mentally/socially stunted where they relate more to high schoolers than they do to their peers. A man I went to church with told me about one he knew. The guy just couldn’t relate to adults; he was fixated on youth culture, to his detriment.
 
Not sure why that's doubtful, personally? No matter what they look like, teenagers are almost always identifiably teens, they don't carry themselves like adults and for a normal adult male into their twenties and up, that's not appealing.
This is about the simplest way to put it.

You know how the way you relate to other people's ages is radically different when you're a child, compared to when you're an adult? Like how when you're 10, a 12 year old is practically on a completely different plane of existence than you are for that age gap. Even people who are just a few months apart seem older/younger. But that all goes away in your 20s, and a 30 year old can see eye to eye equally with a 25 year old, or a 35 year old.

Anyone too young to fit through that threshold gets lumped into a category of kids, because you can't handle adolescents the same way you handle adults. Most places tend to classify the cutoff age for an adult as 18, but my own personal idea of when I start seeing someone as an adult starts around 25-ish. That's the age when your brain stops growing, and there's definitely something that shifts gears around that age. Like, you might be ready for an adult relationship in your early 20s, but high school bullshit is still fairly fresh in your mind, and you're in an awkward halfway point between your adolescence and adulthood. Like, it's not wrong for a 30 year old to date a 23 year old, but in general, they'll probably get along a lot better with a 26 year old.

But a 16 year old? They still have that teenager quality to them, with a very immature sense of humor and taste in entertainment. Everyone has something they liked as a teenager that made them cringe as an adult. At that age, you still have your childlike mind, despite growing into your adult body, and that kind of childlike personality is just very unappealing at the thought of dating. You'd have to see, essentially, a child as your peer, and normal adults just can't do that. It's revolting on a visceral level. Like @Troon Draugur said, they just don't carry themselves like adults. They carry themselves more like big children. To a non-pedo, a 16-year-old only looks like an adult in a photo, since you can't see their body language, or hear them, or see any other kind of giveaway that they aren't an adult.

That being said, I've always suspected that pedophiles are attracted to children more as a mixture of a way to easily have power over someone, and because it's one of the biggest taboos in society. It's just an overtly evil practice.
 
Your brain doesn’t finish fully developing, technically, until you’re 25. We don’t allow legal adults (old enough to be army cannon fodder) to drink (for both brain chemistry and judgment reasons) until 21.

The idea of brain development as an issue makes sense at a younger issue but it clearly become less important (diminishing returns?) as time goes on.

There’s also a distinction, which people like Sig don’t want to acknowledge, between passively finding somebody attractive versus actively pursuing them or having a preference for them. I agree that the man who has a specific preference for teenagers likely has a predatory nature*. I agree that the man who actually goes through on it is acting in an antisocial way (thus, the state punishes him). I think that the man who recognizes beauty but then goes on about his business, keeping himself to legal adults as he should, is not the moral equivalent of a baby-fucker.

*I say probably because there are also people who are not so much predatory, but are more mentally/socially stunted where they relate more to high schoolers than they do to their peers. A man I went to church with told me about one he knew. The guy just couldn’t relate to adults; he was fixated on youth culture, to his detriment.
I don't know why you are arguing so hard for this, but saying "I don't prefer 'em young, I just find 'em attractive is all" doesn't make you seem like some sort of wordly philosopher, it just makes you seem like someone who owns a nondiscript van of sorts that likes to drive around schools for some reason.
 
I don't know why you are arguing so hard for this, but saying "I don't prefer 'em young, I just find 'em attractive is all" doesn't make you seem like some sort of wordly philosopher, it just makes you seem like someone who owns a nondiscript van of sorts that likes to drive around schools for some reason.

I take insults very poorly so then I get defensive and won’t let the argument go. It’s a bad trait I’ve been trying to get better about.
 
I take insults very poorly so then I get defensive and won’t let the argument go. It’s a bad trait I’ve been trying to get better about.
Your life will vastly, vastly improve when you can learn to back away instead of getting defensive, and from there, consider exactly which situations are worth backing away from, and which ones are worth defending. Learning to pick your battles is extremely important so you don't keep digging yourself deeper over retarded situations.
 
I take insults very poorly so then I get defensive and won’t let the argument go. It’s a bad trait I’ve been trying to get better about.

You're a fucking sped whose only saving grace is that there is a tiny part of your brain that goes into damage control mode and looks for another, even more mentally disabled individual than yourself to dunk on whenever you have spent too long running your mouth about things you should know far, far better than to say on a forum like this.

Shut up, sit down, put on your fucking dunce cap and wait till everyone has gotten distracted by a shiny object before slinking away in shame, again, you self-justifying faggot.
 
Your life will vastly, vastly improve when you can learn to back away instead of getting defensive, and from there, consider exactly which situations are worth backing away from, and which ones are worth defending. Learning to pick your battles is extremely important so you don't keep digging yourself deeper over retarded situations.

Dude, this is rare honest advice on on KF how to not make a fool of yourself, here or elsewhere. I'd suggest you follow it. (You won't).
 
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