Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

Revising or adding to what I said about Disney's finances earlier in the thread because thinking about it something a little shocking came to mind.

In 2018 Disney had a revenue of 59.4b, around 13b in profit and debt totaling 53b. The current American economy is debt based so debt is to be expected in a large company. But that amount of debt was 89% of their revenue. To compare, Netflix had a 74% debt to revenue ratio at the time and that was/is considered a potentially high risk factor when looking at the long term health of Netflix. Disney's debt situation was worse than Netflix's in 2018 before they bought Fox.

Fast forward to now their debt will definitely exceed their revenue for 2020, it most likely exceeded their revune for 2019 too. This is 2 years of constant cord cutting and people unsubscribing to ESPN, I believe they bought Hulu in between now and then as well. Their financial situation is practically guaranteed to be a shitshow in the short and long term. And the worst thing is CoronaChan most likely isnt even the cause, just the accelerant to speed up the consequences of poor corporate decisions throughout the entire Disney conglomerate.


All that to say, they may in fact have to sell SW for cash just to stay afloat. And ideally that means GL gets to buy it back for pennies on the dollar and SW ends up having the life cycle quite a few small, family owned businesses have.
 
All that to say, they may in fact have to sell SW for cash just to stay afloat. And ideally that means GL gets to buy it back for pennies on the dollar and SW ends up having the life cycle quite a few small, family owned businesses have.
Frankly, I doubt ole' George would ever make the effort to buy the brand back. He did sell it for a reason, after all.

The best outcome is that someone competent gets it instead. Though I am at a loss to think who would actually be well-placed to steer such a ship. Kiwifunds to buy Star Wars when?
 
So, I've been browsing some of the Star Wars Subreddits, and the amount of coping on display from Disney Drones is hysterical. You'll still find new threads about how "The Hate For the ST NEEDS to Stop!" or "This is why TLJ will be regarded as the next ESB in ten years" or "Future kids will love the ST, and that's okay"...that kind of sad, desperate attempts to deal with the new movies' plummeting reputation within the fandom.

But one recurring sentiment that I keep seeing rear its ugly head as a thread topic is the ST Fans clamoring for a TCW-style show set during the films. I keep seeing this bandied about everywhere, and it only skyrocketed once the new Bad Batch series was announced (which is still the source of a lot of salt among ST shills, with them declaring that "the Clone Wars and the PT have enough content, focus on the sequels, REEEEEEEEEEE"). It's fueled by the idea that TCW allegedly "fixed" a lot of problems with the PT, and a similar show expanding the ST would fix all the maladies with those movies, bolster their reputation in the eyes of the fandom, and finally grant the ST the forgiveness and appreciation it deserves...the same way that TCW did for the PT.

There are so many reasons that a show of that kind won't do fucking shit to save the ST, for reasons that these Disney Drones will furiously dance around or consciously ignore, and they are as follows:

1. In the eyes of many, TCW didn't "fix" the reputation or critical failings of the PT. Any warm or glowing response to the PT is either a result of people who already liked them upon release (myself very much included), or people whose standards have been so crippled by the abysmal quality of the newer movies that they have actually returned to the PT with a slightly rosier lens...albeit one in full awareness of their critical failings as films. The TCW didn't do shit to alleviate public perception of the PT...if anything, the ST was so awful that it ended up validating those films.

2. There already was an attempt to expand the ST era through animation...it was called Star Wars: Resistance, and it was fucking awful. It had horrible ratings, and receives little to zero fanfare amongst core fans (for all of the autism around Ahsoka, people at least talk about her. Same with Kanan Jarrus and Hera Syndulla of Space Aladdin fame...when was the last time you heard someone raving about more media, toys, or game inclusions for Pilot Dicknose and Golden Stormtrooper?)...effectively crushing all potential cult status. That series expanded on the individuals fighting, and the nature of the conflict in the ST, tying directly to TFA...and it registered all the impact and consequence of an underwater fart. Kind of like the rest of the material relating to the ST.

3. Stuff like TCW, the Clone Wars Multimedia project and Genndy Wars were able to exist precisely because there was enough in the PT to expand upon. The politics, Clone Wars, Jedi Council, various new aliens and species, as well as abundance of new characters to work with allowed for exploration in several episodes and story arcs...because they were ORIGINAL content worth expanding upon. The ST spends so much of its time being a Kroger Brand Rehash of the OT that it barely introduces any novelties or original content to elaborate on. And on top of that, the films race through their respective plots at breakneck speed with no pause to do any actual worldbuilding....meaning, that anyone who writes content for the ST in the form of a TV series has a new burden that the TCW writers weren't saddled with: having so little to work off of that they have to create everything from scratch. Characters, locations, and events exist in the ST, but they have such little substance behind them that the show writers will be doing all of the legwork to make something out of them. Anakin and Padme's forbidden romance, the CIS's dissent and departure from the Republic, Obi-Wan uncovering the Sifo-Dyas conspiracy, and the Jedi unknowingly playing into the hands of Darth Sidious were not plot elements that TCW's writers had to concoct themselves....they already EXISTED in the PT films, and only required building off of. But there's so little to work with in the ST that writers for the books and comics have had to essentially concoct entire library's worth of documentation and explanation just to explain shit like Kylo Ren's dark side turn or the existence and rise of the First Order, because J.J. Abrams and Rian Johnson couldn't be bothered to have that shit in the films. And they've already gone over that stuff in books and comics outside the films (of quite dismal quality, I might add), so there's no way they're going to go over those details again for some throw-away animated show.

4. The Clone Wars was a conflict that took place over 3 years...the First Order War (or whatever it's fucking called) only takes place over a single year. Disney Drones who talk about a prospective ST Animated Series expanding the conflict in the way that TCW did almost always dance around this point, probably because it undercuts the entire possibility of such a show. How many story arcs, milestone events, large scale plotlines, new characters or instances of character development are you going to be able to squeeze into one in-universe year? Fuck, even the Expanded Universe couldn't cram anything overly substantial in the year between ESB and ROTJ, outside of small-scale side-stories like Shadows Of The Empire, and that was just to explain the lack of galactic gangster activity in the films outside of Jabba the Hutt, as well as the Heroes' search for Han Solo. Anyone who thinks that a TCW-with multitudes of characters and sprawling story arcs have been stuffed into a single year is fooling themselves. In fact, there are some fans who feel that the amount of stuff that happens in TCW is too implausible for a three-year war. And speaking of which...

5. While the amount of things that happen in TCW's small timespan is derided as implausible by some, it can be justified by the sheer scale of the Clone Wars. Remember, it's a conflict that involves virtually every single known planet in the galaxy, with dozens of battles being fought simultaneously between two massive galactic factions. When watching the PT films, you already get the sense that a ton is happening off-screen, a feeling that's all but compounded by ROTS, which takes place during the final height of the Clone Wars--we're even treated to references to off-screen events like Quinlan Vos' excursions, the countless Jedi that have fallen to Grievous, the Jedi Council's inability to distribute their Clone Forces on all of the planets being affected by the war. Things are happening off-screen. The problem with the ST is that the conflict is of such a small scale that there is virtually NOTHING happening off-screen. The war is literally limited to everything we see happen in the films--no other planets are involved, no other governments or factions are lending aid to the Resistance, and the First Order is only affecting one group of people with their military might: the protagonists. That's it. The conflict of the films is so tight-knit and involving so few main players, and the only thing we're told about the rest of the galaxy is all the war profiteering nonsense on Canto Bite, and a few fugitive stormtroopers hiding out on Kijimi. What fucking grand adventures and season-long story arcs are you going to tell with that? The only time where multiple planets seem involved in what's going on is during the final battle at Exegol, and that's at the ass end of the last film. Some people will argue that a similar contention can be made about the civil war in the OT, but that's utter bullshit: we know that the rebel alliance is more than what we see in the films...that's why Admiral Ackbar and Mon Mothma appearing in ROTJ and not in the previous two makes sense, because we hear about other rebel cells fighting throughout the galaxy across the films, on Dantooine, on Sollust, etc, and see tactics of dispersing and reconvening after defeats like the one on Hoth, for example. There's far more to the Rebellion than what we see on-screen, but with the Resistance, what we see on-screen is the entirety of their forces, cut off and isolated from the New Republic or any allies by the films' own admission. Every other planet is just standing by, unaffected by the conflict. There are no other military operations happening, no other Jedi or substantive characters to focus on, nothing. Thanks to the barren world-building and microscopic scale of the conflict, the setting of the ST films is relegated solely to what's actively happening to the main characters, with life going on as usual throughout the rest of the galaxy...the first time in the saga where the main threat is affecting the main characters, and only the main characters. And yes, there is a year between TLJ and TROS...a year where the First Order makes no significant progress in defeating the Resistance, a year where Rey is doing nothing but training, and where the only Resistance activity being a few slipshot guerilla attacks and smuggling runs as seen in the books like Resistance Rising and Black Spire. Again, not exactly riveting material for a multi-season TV series. Ultimately, nothing substantial can happen off-screen because the films allow no breathing room for that to happen, by keeping a chokehold of important, large-scale events around the main characters, and keeping galactic life normal and relatively unaffected everywhere else. This is what really saps the creative breathing room to tell good stories during the ST War, because there's so little of it happening, and too little of it affecting the larger setting for writers to do anything truly exciting with it. You can't even do something similar to Star Wars Rebels, because there are no origins of the conflict left to establish, or hundreds of planets under the grip of the First Order like Rebels depicted with the Empire, or any Jedi characters to embark on their own journeys separate from Rey...thanks to the Knights of Ren killing them all. By trying so hard to pigeon-hole the Resistance into a desperate situation, and trying to make the ST less like the prequels, the writers have effectively made it harder to economize on the era they've created...and have ironically prevented a show in the same style as the PT's alleged "saving grace", TCW, to exist for their trilogy as well.

TL ; DR The ST Era is a creative dead end from which no TCW-style show can emerge, for the same reasons why any interesting stories told in that era through books, comics and games can't emerge. There's too little time, and too little creative novelties to work with in order to properly flesh out this era. It's what will cripple the ST era for years to come, make it age faster and less favorably then the PT era, and prevent time and supplementary material to heal their reputation in the fandom...in spite of hordes of shrieking Disney Drones declaring otherwise.
 
I lifted this meme off Prequel Memes years ago, and it's still relevant today :
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Is it possible to make a thread dedicated to making fun of consoomers of the sequel trilogy? Because people like this guy and @Rider_Nexus are a gold mine of hypocricy and hilarious irony when it comes to the sequel trilogy.

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The way he talks about Jeremy Jahns (and if you look around his twitter you'll see he was a huge fan pre-sequel trilogy) sounds like he's a bitter ex describing his past marriage. Like, if you're seriously going to resent Jeremy Jahns just because he said he didn't like the sequel trilogy, he was clearly not meant for you. It's pretty clear at this point that this Alex guy made that "objectively bad" tweet because he's overly sensitive to the idea of something he really REALLY likes being called out for being a horribly written mess.
ST fans like this will always pull out ridiculous strawmans and other excuses to defend their shit trilogy that a majority of Star Wars fans dislike.
 
At least the vice versa side knows what continuity and plot consistency actually is.
I don’t think Star Wars as a whole has ever particularly ascribed to those descriptors. At least not in the last 30 years. It’s a fucking series for children at the end of the day. This thread has got to be one of the spergiest cringefests I’ve seen on this entire site. See: the fucking literal novels thrown up every other post bitching about other fans of the exact same series they are fans of. The prequels sucked. The sequels sucked. 99% of the EU sucked. I have a soft spot for the OT, but that’s entirely because I saw them as a child and it’s completely tinted by nostalgia. They’re not paragons of cinema. All this autistic slapfighting is embarrassing.
 
I don’t think Star Wars as a whole has ever particularly ascribed to those descriptors. At least not in the last 30 years. It’s a fucking series for children at the end of the day. This thread has got to be one of the spergiest cringefests I’ve seen on this entire site. See: the fucking literal novels thrown up every other post bitching about other fans of the exact same series they are fans of. The prequels sucked. The sequels sucked. 99% of the EU sucked. I have a soft spot for the OT, but that’s entirely because I saw them as a child and it’s completely tinted by nostalgia. They’re not paragons of cinema. All this autistic slapfighting is embarrassing.
Yeah, I suppose I should be more grown up and contribute to the threads about trannies or anime.
 
I don’t think Star Wars as a whole has ever particularly ascribed to those descriptors. At least not in the last 30 years. It’s a fucking series for children at the end of the day. This thread has got to be one of the spergiest cringefests I’ve seen on this entire site. See: the fucking literal novels thrown up every other post bitching about other fans of the exact same series they are fans of. The prequels sucked. The sequels sucked. 99% of the EU sucked. I have a soft spot for the OT, but that’s entirely because I saw them as a child and it’s completely tinted by nostalgia. They’re not paragons of cinema. All this autistic slapfighting is embarrassing.

Autism? On MY forum about a trooned-out Sonic-worshiping retard married to Mewtwo? Golly gee.
 
TL ; DR The ST Era is a creative dead end from which no TCW-style show can emerge, for the same reasons why any interesting stories told in that era through books, comics and games can't emerge. There's too little time, and too little creative novelties to work with in order to properly flesh out this era. It's what will cripple the ST era for years to come, make it age faster and less favorably then the PT era, and prevent time and supplementary material to heal their reputation in the fandom...in spite of hordes of shrieking Disney Drones declaring otherwise.
You could make some good stuff out of the sequels... in the sense you create it yourself. But that's the thing that you'd have to do; make all the other events in book or in game. And Disney tried this because they saw it as a cheap way to excuse poor direction and management. It didn't work, because of the poor direction and management.
In fairness to the ST they try to crammed everything into one year as opposed to Gundam's One Year War where almost everything was crammed into three months.
Mainly because after the quick gains and mass genocide in the first like month or two, Zeon didn't have the numbers even with all the gassing and nukes to be able to beat the Federation so you had a long gridlock where the whole strategy was bury them in numbers.

The show itself has dozens of theaters you can write stories for, and because of that (and it's relative popularity and success compared to other series with the name) it gets dredged up all the time. The original was done so well you can still do stories in the OYW period, let alone the other shit that happens in the Universal Century.
I don’t think Star Wars as a whole has ever particularly ascribed to those descriptors. At least not in the last 30 years. It’s a fucking series for children at the end of the day. This thread has got to be one of the spergiest cringefests I’ve seen on this entire site. See: the fucking literal novels thrown up every other post bitching about other fans of the exact same series they are fans of. The prequels sucked. The sequels sucked. 99% of the EU sucked. I have a soft spot for the OT, but that’s entirely because I saw them as a child and it’s completely tinted by nostalgia. They’re not paragons of cinema. All this autistic slapfighting is embarrassing.
Because clearly you with your obsession with random e-celeb girlfriends, reddit, and troons is not equally embarrassing at all.
 
Yeah, the entire sequel trilogy taking place within a year really does cripple future story potential. (Also, really depressing that Han, Luke, and Leia all die within the same year.)

It'll be really hard to squeeze in any sort of long story run without bumping up against the film timeline. (You wouldn't be able to do anything that major with only months to play with.)

It only furthers my thoughts on The Last Jedi not having some sort of time jump was a mistake. It also further demonstrates that having the New Republic completely die offscreen was stupid as fuck. In trying to avoid the "politics" of the prequels, they fucked over a major story thread. One that keeps asking the questions: how did they even rule for 30 years? The loss of only 5 planets caused them to completely collapse? Where are all their resources? What the fuck is the Resistance going to do at the end of Ep. 9? Rey literally fucks off to nowhere to live in the desert again, guess the Jedi Order is truly and forever dead now. (Thanks Disney for having the same thematic ending as Luke instead of actually rebuilding the Jedi Order.) Etc.
 
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Has been this posted? They are trying to cancel Gina Carano, who played Cara Dune in the Mandalorian because she posted a photo of a guy who refused to do the nazi salute because some girl he liked was against it or something. Now they want to pledge her life to BLM or be cancelled, but she is not backing down. Gina is super cool, she was the first female mma figher superstar. An actual female pioneer in her field. I cant even undestand now whats their problem, her post had nothing to do with BLM or anything. Imagine posting an anti Nazi story and then being called a Nazi. Its always stand with women unless they do something you dont like, then you are free to abuse them as viciously as you want.
 
So Shamus Young is going to be doing a deep dive on Fallen Order.

To illustrate the difference between modern Nu Star Wars and Gen-X Traditional Star Wars, let me ask a series of really obvious questions…

Who are the Jedi?
The Jedi are peaceful monks that go largely unnoticed by society at large. They map fairly well to the tropes of Shaolin Monks in classic martial arts movies. They spend their entire lives gardening, studying, farming, or some other quiet hands-on activity. During extraordinary circumstances they might leave their remote monastery / hermit dwelling / cave to participate in conflict, but they dislike violence. A Jedi uses his powers only for defense, never for attack.

OR…

The Jedi are galactic fixers, sent out to galactic hotspots by powerful politicians to intervene in matters of state and bust some heads if bad guys cause too much trouble.

How do the Jedi Fight?
Jedi are quiet, observant, and patient. They avoid direct conflict if possible. If conflict is unavoidable, they’re willing to sacrifice themselves to preserve life. They fight with subtlety, subterfuge, and surgical precision. They kill only at great need and do so with regret.

OR…

The Jedi leap into massed armies waving their laser swords around and shouting quips at each other.

What is the Dark Side?
The Dark Side appeals to our base instincts. It favors the quick and easy solution. It takes your desire to do good and perverts it. It exploits existing personality flaws, pushing you to be a worse version of yourself. It’s not actually a malevolent force in itself, but simply an expression of human frailty and the idea that “power corrupts”.

OR…

The Dark Side is evil space mojo that mind-controls people into being violent assholes if they get too angry for understandable reasons, forcing Jedi to bottle up their emotions.

Who are the Heroes?
Our heroes are a scrappy group of nobodies. The Force works in mysterious ways, and common folks are sometimes swept up in extraordinary adventures.

OR…

The heroes are chosen by destiny and the galaxy is controlled by a small group of fantastically powerful[10] beings. Everyone else is just a background player in their ongoing power struggle. All roads lead to Skywalker v. Palpatine.

What is Star Wars?

If you’re an OG purist like me then you probably favor the first description of the things above. If you’re a younger person – or someone who came to Star Wars through the prequel trilogy / sequel trilogy / books / animated series / Disney Theme Park Ride, then you probably lean closer to the second interpretation for those elements.

I’m not saying that one of these is objectively more correct than the other. Both are equally valid interpretations of the material as it exists today. After all, this is an evolving fantasy story about space wizards, not a legal document or a religious text[11]. It’s fine if we have conflicting interpretations. Actually, I think it’s inevitable.

Ultimately, I think the Traditionalist view makes for a more interesting setting with more emotional impact and a greater sense of mystery. On the other hand, Nu Star Wars is a better setting for an ever-expanding franchise of movies, shows, games, toys, and animated shorts. It’s pretty hard to write never-ending adventure stories about peaceful isolationist monks. If they end up flying around the galaxy all the time and getting into swordfights with the villain of the week, then the “quiet monk” vibe becomes incredibly difficult to maintain. I like the original flavor better, but by its nature it creates a finite and self-contained story. If you want endless sequels, then Midichlorian Star Wars is the formula for you.

I admit I lean a bit more old school in the above cited examples like Shamus than new. But I can see the appeal.

I think part of a missed opportunity is examining the Jedi from a semi-religious perspective. You could have had an era predating the prequels of the political faction Jedi. Then have a disaster arise and have the Jedi retreat to a more monk-like style, "reform Jedi" if you will. That should have been the prequel era. Then when Luke brings the Jedi back, you could have the sequel trilogy debate over which form the Jedi take. Can Luke for some kind of synthesis between the political Jedi and reform version? Maybe he would go to that island to look up how things were originally and try to return Jedi to their original vision, "orthodox Jedi."

There are stories you could tell there. Oh well....
 
Has been this posted? They are trying to cancel Gina Carano, who played Cara Dune in the Mandalorian because she posted a photo of a guy who refused to do the nazi salute because some girl he liked was against it or something. Now they want to pledge her life to BLM or be cancelled, but she is not backing down. Gina is super cool, she was the first female mma figher superstar. An actual female pioneer in her field. I cant even undestand now whats their problem, her post had nothing to do with BLM or anything. Imagine posting an anti Nazi story and then being called a Nazi. Its always stand with women unless they do something you dont like, then you are free to abuse them as viciously as you want.
Wait, so they're angry that... she's a nazi who also isn't a nazi but who doesn't support BLM? These fucking cancel dramas are getting stupider by the day.


Worse, it's probably a few days or a week max. TLJ for example starts a few minutes after the final scene of TFA.
I think some licensed Disney garbage says that TLJ takes place about 30 minutes after TFA while IX takes place about 1 year after TFA as the moronic calendar system for the films calls the year 1 ASI (After Starkiller Incident) which is just a whole other can of stupid.
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Stupid new calendar name aside, a whole year passes with zero content because Disney wanted to release these films as fast as possible with little spoilers (which they failed at). The prequels were messy films but they at least had plenty of high quality side content to keep you invested in the setting and helped to flesh out their poor development and characters of the PT. Meanwhile the sequels had literally nothing except an awful BB-8 cartoon, 10 or so short comics and 2 non-film adaptation novels about Rey being amazing or contradicting everything in the films while somehow making them worse. The Resistance cartoon doesn't count because it hardly even does anything except look ugly and be the absolute antithesis of Genndy Wars.

This is awful! How could people like things I don't like?! Also stop liking things I don't like but also stop criticizing things I supposedly don't like which I actually have a paradoxical affection for!
Aside from not making much sense...
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