SJW Art and Extremes

[Gensdupays]

Turn off the computer and it all stops.

 

[Hummingbird]

One must ask this: how is she mistreated??? Brainwashed by the patriarchy?

This is how it went.

Spoiler: The result

Person 1: Dynamite has let Gail Simone re-invent Red Sonja but that was only after they pretty much destroyed the character on their first run - and outside of books written by Gail the character gets very shabby treatment (and is frequently beheaded).

Other than that, it tends towards reinvention being things like "What if they were all Steampunk in the Old West... but the ladies still had sexy costumes!?"

Person 2: I often feel bad for Ms.Simone, who is a good writer and who is telling interesting stories often from a female point of view. And who is saddled with artists (and let's be honest about it, a company staff that is outright horrid) who reflexively fall back to the same old tropes and cliches of depicting women in (superhero) comics that has kept the genre stuck firmly in the dark ages.

This new series is a good example of how her talent as author is being wasted on fratboy mentality in artists and ceos.

Person 3: Not to mention that a potential new reader wouldn't know who either Gail Simone or J. Scott Campbell is, so they'd have to base their purchase decision either on first glance at the misleading cover (the awfulness of which speaks for itself) or on looking through the inside of the book (which requires time and attention and is more difficult for digital purchases).
No matter how good the writing is, it can't single-handedly salvage a story told through visual medium.

 

[MiloWuCollusion]

Pretty sure Gail Simone is not afraid to get female characters in tense or horryifing situations. I mean, she admited in an update in her WomanInRefrigerators page is one thing seeing stuff as a fan and then as a writter trying to keep a story interesting, exciting or poignant to the reader. I mean, killing female characters in horrible ways is still cheap in most cases, but still...

Also, all comics writters have make compromised decisions in their job, male or female. People like Morrison, Moore, Waid, etc had to adjust their story decisions to stuff imposed by their editors, and many time because market reasons.

 

[Pina Colada]

All they did was make it look like there was some nosebleed going on there.

Or make it look like they've got some serious headcolds going on there.

Oh my god. They're really going on about how the Disney and Paramount films exaggerate Herc's muscle mass?

Just be happy that they didn't bring up this gem: (TW: big image, inflation, hilarity)

Spoiler

 

[Jewelsmakerguy]

Or make it look like they've got some serious headcolds going on there.

Just be happy that they didn't bring up this gem: (TW: big image, inflation, hilarity)

Spoiler

View attachment 27085

Well that was something I didn't want to see.

Also, hi Shine.

 

[Jaimas]

Turn off the computer and it all stops.

Listen to this man. He speaks truth.

No one should have any sympathy for these recalcitrant fuckers who believe the entire internet must change to accommodate their being shit human beings. Nobody fucking twisted your arm and made you say stupid shit on Twitter/Tumblr/Facebook/et al, you assholes. No one made you keep logging onto twitter and claim to have full-fledged PTSD because you said something stupid and got called on it.

I urge you little Social Networking addicts to familiarize yourself with the only rule of the Internet that has ever mattered: Prepare to get your shit kicked in if you ever have so much hubris that you think you are above criticism.

 

[Hummingbird]

I was able to convince (at least partially) one of the people complaining about Shantae on that page. The thing was she wasn't familiar with any kind of belly-dancing outside of Egypt and in the end said "that I had a point" about it after showing her some videos on oriental dan dancing.

 

[Hummingbird]

I checked to see if there were any more responses, because Shantae has become a member of their shitlist.

Spoiler: Responses

So she needs more practical pants but a less practical top? How does that make sense?
If she actually wanted practical, she wouldn't be wearing a belly dancing outfit when she's doing the running around, adventuring, jumping, etc.
It's about using bellydancing as an excuse to draw a sexy girl any way they want. That's it.

I consider it a plus that they came up with the thinnest possible excuse to do so that was not horribly clichéd.
In the other problematical games there is not even that much thought given to why female characters would be running around in underwear as tiny as can still get sneaked post the morality censors. Never mind the 'should' in that censors.
I would call it a baby step, except that even 2 day old babies take bigger steps than that.

I really consider it a step sideways at best, arguably it makes it worse because as well as normalizing the problematic aspects they're now throwing part of a cultural identity under a bus in the process.

This a bad, "generic" design. Also, a good female design is a breastless female design.

 

[A Random]

And yet the female warrior musketeer person has a pretty big ass, when looked at from that angle.

 

[pickledance]

Also, a good female design is a breastless female design.

Cause hasslefree minis is totally gonna give a shit about these bitches tender sensibilities.

 

[Jaimas]

I checked to see if there were any more responses, because Shantae has become a member of their shitlist.

Spoiler: Responses

So she needs more practical pants but a less practical top? How does that make sense?
If she actually wanted practical, she wouldn't be wearing a belly dancing outfit when she's doing the running around, adventuring, jumping, etc.
It's about using bellydancing as an excuse to draw a sexy girl any way they want. That's it.

I consider it a plus that they came up with the thinnest possible excuse to do so that was not horribly clichéd.
In the other problematical games there is not even that much thought given to why female characters would be running around in underwear as tiny as can still get sneaked post the morality censors. Never mind the 'should' in that censors.
I would call it a baby step, except that even 2 day old babies take bigger steps than that.

I really consider it a step sideways at best, arguably it makes it worse because as well as normalizing the problematic aspects they're now throwing part of a cultural identity under a bus in the process.

This a bad, "generic" design. Also, a good female design is a breastless female design.

1. Two Day old babies can't walk. They can't even crawl. Babies require at least a few months of development before being able to take their tentative first steps. Learn to science, and git gud.

2. ....And with that, we get to the real issue they have. It's not about cultural issues, it's not about exploitation, not about anything of relevance or worth.

It's because they're attractive women who are fine being attractive.

Exactly like I said, and exactly like fucking Liana K said, and exactly like a thousand other commentators have said. This is their personal jihad against women that are comfortable wearing little. That said: Someone be a dear - explain to me why anyone should care what these shitsuckers say? Because the way I see it, they don't play video games, and, as demonstrated by Yaoi Huntress, don't even properly do research.

But they sure as shit love to complain.

Here, let me quote based Liana a sec, because she says it brilliantly (with bold for emphasis):

I didn't know until recently Anita Sarkeesian was using the exact same arguments as the very people she claims to oppose. Now that I know, I can't expect any better treatment. I've been labelled a fighting f**ktoy, and gaming's Queen of Feminism has decided that I and many of my favourite characters, are objects suitable for mockery.

This is why I'm an unrepentant fan of Ivy Valentine from the Soul Calibur games. When you're built like Ivy is, like I am, you spent your entire life knowing that you have to be smarter, more strategic, and be able to perform more complicated moves than your opponents. Relying on people to support and defend you leaves you with missing pieces of your soul. Being "nice" and "likeable" leaves you further behind because other women are so much better at that. Your remaining viable option is to become an intimidating, undeniable embodiment of female aggression and make everyone around you squirm.

One mistake, and you're screwed. You need to dominate fights from start to finish, because if you lose momentum a character with less-complex special moves will shred you. You have to keep enemies at a distance and choose your moments or get in close and grapple as if your life depends on it. There is no middle ground.

Your own weapons are tools of your own making, because the people who were supposed to give you opportunities took from you instead to fuel their own ambitions. And you fight not for yourself, because "sluts" like you are inherently evil and everyone knows that. You fight to destroy the evil that brands women sluts in the first place, with the tiny hope that with that evil destroyed, you'll be redeemed from the villain status the whole world layers on to you because of choices they do not care to understand.

The brilliance of Ivy Valentine isn't her distinct look. It's how her look, weapon, and move set work together. She's a perfect metaphor for going through life wanting to stand for something more than a massive rack. Where but in video games are you going to find a character arc like that? Maybe Joan Holloway on Madmen?

The thing that people like Anita Sarkeesian don't understand is that when you're a woman with giant boobs, sometimes you accentuate them as a way of saying "They're here, so leer, then get used to them. Can we please move on? Kthanx."

But no. We can't. Because Anita Sarkeesian keeps using her high-profile soapbox to send the message that images of women with large breasts are inherently damaging to women, despite absolutely no evidence that this is so. Even Bioware apparently fell for that noise, because the only character in Dragon Age Inquisition they allowed to have a low-cut shirt was ice-queen social climber Vivienne.

I had no idea how much I depended on Bioware games to not erase me. As much as I rolled my eyes at the desire demons, at least there were female demons. Now even the spirits of compassion are male. And if I joined the Inquisition, I'd have to deal with constantly being perved on by a 300-pound aggressive Qunari sex fiend with fetishes for redheads and rough sex. But cleavage? No keep those out please. This is the result of Anita Sarkeesian's brand of video game feminism.

This brand of feminism is encouraging video game companies to believe that telling human stories about certain types of women is a bad thing. Feminist Frequency appears to be convincing the most progressive wings of gaming that voluptuous women and sex workers deserve to be erased from fictionalized reality while we face real stigma in the real world.

So I'm screwed if this continues. I'll never be able to get attention for my ideas because of physical realities I can't control. That's why I almost quit writing about games.

Shantae is as close to fucking mainstream as Indie Game characters get outside of Cave Story. She's celebrated as a female character success story. She successfully out-popularitied Phoenix Wright, Solid Snake, and about 20 others in the Smash "Who Should be In?" Poll. She's hilariously self-aware and openly makes fun of her own tastes in fashion. And yet we have assholes like this moron screaming to the heavens that she's "problematic" (and there's that fucking word again) because she's sexually attractive. We all know why Guybrush Threepwood couldn't be a female character:

So let me ask you, SJWs: How is this problematic? We've already got multiple empirical studies that Video Games don't cause sexism, just as we have multiple studies which prove that they don't cause violence. All of these have been extensively peer-reviewed. You've claimed they objectify women, but that does not bear out the actual truth when these women are easy to empathize with, as proven by countless articles that cover their characterization, growth, and personalities as opposed to their looks. Putting it simply, Bayonetta would not have been considered a power fantasy by her own creator, who was a woman, and characters like Shantae, Aya Brea, Samus Aran, and more would not have the lasting appeal they do amongst women if they were honest-to-god objectification. This is to say nothing of how men are treated as disposable in gaming as a whole, or are just as objectified in general.

 

[DirkBloodStormKing]

> That Felicia and Morrigan

Heresy of the highest degree.


I was just about to say that. Isn't what they're doing, like, literally slut shaming?

The slut-shaming of SJWs and radfems is honestly fucking sexist. I'd say misogynist even.

 

[Meowthkip]

So let me ask you, SJWs: How is this problematic? We've already got multiple empirical studies that Video Games don't cause sexism, just as we have multiple studies which prove that they don't cause violence. All of these have been extensively peer-reviewed. You've claimed they objectify women, but that does not bear out the actual truth when these women are easy to empathize with, as proven by countless articles that cover their characterization, growth, and personalities as opposed to their looks. Putting it simply, Bayonetta would not have been considered a power fantasy by her own creator, who was a woman, and characters like Shantae, Aya Brea, Samus Aran, and more would not have the lasting appeal they do amongst women if they were honest-to-god objectification. This is to say nothing of how men are treated as disposable in gaming as a whole, or are just as objectified in general.

I do like the perspective given in this video; it's one I hadn't considered.

Honestly, I'd very much like a female Guybrush Threepwood, who isn't strong, or brave, or competent, and she takes a lot of abuse, if only because playing a deeply flawed female character who bumbles around like she don't know what the fuck would probably feel closer to... well, myself, I guess. As much as I love me some badass female heroines, I feel like characters who constantly screwed over by life and put through shit are more relatable, because I'm not a toned, steely-eyed huntress who could crush a man's skull between her thighs. I'm short and shy and out of shape and not very pretty and I tend to space out a lot and I'm klutzy and weird. I don't need a game that breaks the cutie so much as I would want a female character who can fuck up completely and not be seen to represent her whole gender as a bunch of fuck-ups.

Besides, most player characters are never quite as interesting as the characters around them. Player characters have to be seen as more of a blank slate. A woman should be as much of a blank slate as anybody, ideally. Yeah, you can customize a player character to be a transgender black lesbian, but she'll never be as interesting as the characters she meets, because she's just an avatar to navigate the world. Her personality is made of the choices you make for her. Meanwhile, that NPC gibbering about zombies or mutants or monsters who's clearly off his rocker? He's memorable. People will latch onto him.

I just want female characters to be as flawed and varied as male ones, going through trials and tribulations like any male character. I want an interesting story, goddammit.

... I kind of went off on a tangent there. But, yeah. I found that video interesting.

 

[Abethedemon]

I have a friend who posts a lot of this stuff on Facebook. He also seems to post really weird, sexual My Little Pony watchamacallits. He's a cool guy, if not a bit spergy.
Anyways, somewhat unrelated, I'm working on a tabletop war-game and I was thinking of having a race where there are female warriors. Should I have them be heavily armored whereas the males are scantily clad, or should I make them have curves? I was thinking it would be like a patriarchal society where women hunt and fight and the men are in charge of pretty much everything else, sorta like a gender flipped version of Prehistory. They could worship Father Earth.

 

[Meowthkip]

I have a friend who posts a lot of this stuff on Facebook. He also seems to post really weird, sexual My Little Pony watchamacallits. He's a cool guy, if not a bit spergy.
Anyways, somewhat unrelated, I'm working on a tabletop war-game and I was thinking of having a race where there are female warriors. Should I have them be heavily armored whereas the males are scantily clad, or should I make them have curves? I was thinking it would be like a patriarchal society where women hunt and fight and the men are in charge of pretty much everything else, sorta like a gender flipped version of Prehistory. They could worship Father Earth.

Women usually have curves, though warrior women would probably be pretty bulky. So, they'd have muscle all over the place, but there would be much more in the thighs than a buff man would have. They could still very well wear heavy armor, but heavy armor doesn't make those curves disappear. Just build them like an Amazon.

I do like the idea of the men being scantily clad, and perhaps considered to be the fairer sex. Have it be kind of like the social structure of hyena packs, where the largest, most aggressive female is in charge, and the males are generally smaller.

Spoiler

... Sorry, I like fictional societies with giant warrior women and much smaller, frailer men a lot, so sue me.

 

[Abethedemon]

Women usually have curves, though warrior women would probably be pretty bulky. So, they'd have muscle all over the place, but there would be much more in the thighs than a buff man would have. They could still very well wear heavy armor, but heavy armor doesn't make those curves disappear. Just build them like an Amazon.

I do like the idea of the men being scantily clad, and perhaps considered to be the fairer sex. Have it be kind of like the social structure of hyena packs, where the largest, most aggressive female is in charge, and the males are generally smaller.

Spoiler

... Sorry, I like fictional societies with giant warrior women and much smaller, frailer men a lot, so sue me.

I think that's a good idea, they could rule through intimidation.

 

[c-no]

I have a friend who posts a lot of this stuff on Facebook. He also seems to post really weird, sexual My Little Pony watchamacallits. He's a cool guy, if not a bit spergy.
Anyways, somewhat unrelated, I'm working on a tabletop war-game and I was thinking of having a race where there are female warriors. Should I have them be heavily armored whereas the males are scantily clad, or should I make them have curves? I was thinking it would be like a patriarchal society where women hunt and fight and the men are in charge of pretty much everything else, sorta like a gender flipped version of Prehistory. They could worship Father Earth.

For the unrelated thing, I can't help but feel that should reach one of these Tumblr blogs just to see what they will call problematic with a female warrior race. As for your friend posting the stuff on Facebook, does he just post pics that sperg about impractical armor that is in a world where certain things or anything can be impractical due to said world being in the likes of say a game?

If you do have scantily clad men, if they ever wear armor, make it like this:

 

[Abethedemon]

For the unrelated thing, I can't help but feel that should reach one of these Tumblr blogs just to see what they will call problematic with a female warrior race. As for your friend posting the stuff on Facebook, does he just post pics that sperg about impractical armor that is in a world where certain things or anything can be impractical due to said world being in the likes of say a game?

If you do have scantily clad men, if they ever wear armor, make it like this:

He spergs mainly about superheroes not wearing pants.

 

[TheMightyMonarch]

I remember a long ass time ago seeing fanart of Scarlet Witch on my dash. I think the artist's intent was to make her appear more ethnically Romani, seeing how she is technically Romani in the comics. Alright, cool whatever. Thing is, she practically looked like a racist caricature. She had a very large hook nose and generally looked more like how classic cartoons would depicts the Romani than somebody who is actually ethnically Romani. She was also very short and fat. Look, I'm all for different interpretations of characters, whether it be race bending or experimenting with different body types, but good lord does Tumblr overdoes it at times.

This has been making the rounds on 4chan whenever someones mentions SJW art.

Spoiler

View attachment 25599

It's suppose to be Kill La Kill.

Good lord this is hideous

View attachment 25792 Little off topic but this reminds me of a chart I found, apparently you are a horrible, arrogant person if you shave. Ever.

Oh fuck you flow chart. I'll do whatever I damn please with my legs. Tumblerites who judge women for shaving their legs are just as bad as the ones who judges the ones who don't.

 

[Hummingbird]

About that "generic design" they were complaining about, I'm curious about your feelings on it. Other than that the knives should have covers, I think it looks cool. There's an elegance and a lovely sense of detail to it.