Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

Status
Not open for further replies.
Aren't vaccines created by countries tested on their own people like volunteers and so on? Otherwise your are basically saying that either don't create vaccines or test it on foreigners.

Vaccines usually are tested for safety and go through several multiple year long stages of clinical trial. The first stage of this vaccine was only a few months, and we are now on stage 3. I really don't see how they can safely have this available by November. The odds are good that it's safe, but the last thing we need is a vaccine that isn't safe and to give anti-vaxers more ammo
 
Vaccines usually go through more stringent trials before they get to that stage. When I say 'experiments' I'm referring to stuff that's unethical like the stuff on here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States
Vaccines usually are tested for safety and go through several multiple year long stages of clinical trial. The first stage of this vaccine was only a few months, and we are now on stage 3. I really don't see how they can safely have this available by November. The odds are good that it's safe, but the last thing we need is a vaccine that isn't safe and to give anti-vaxers more ammo
Yup. I got corrected on this by another poster. Still, thanks for the info guys :semperfidelis:
 
theres also the talk of "long term effects", which I said that "but theres no data", and they keep hounding on me with other random effects it did (including the hair loss that they ignored with me countering it with "doesn't stressful situations cause hair loss though?"). Nevermind the fact that one of them brought up ventilators and I pointed out that it has a higher chance of ruining your lungs permanently than WuFlu itself.
EDIT ADDITION: Now that I think about it, the conflict of information is really hurting people. Even if I pointed out the biggest thing: that the riots lasted for four months and counting and they didn't drop like flies on all that time, people still go "The spike is coming, you'll see!"
They're already priming people on the news to expect a Labor Day spike - because all of us law-abiding people who just want to grill are to blame, ALWAYS, for any rise in CASES. Note how they harp on the number of CASES but barely a peep on the number of actual deaths (at least in my experience watching the snippets of local news that I can even stand to anymore, what with all their gaslighting about the riots).
 
Vaccines usually are tested for safety and go through several multiple year long stages of clinical trial. The first stage of this vaccine was only a few months, and we are now on stage 3. I really don't see how they can safely have this available by November. The odds are good that it's safe, but the last thing we need is a vaccine that isn't safe and to give anti-vaxers more ammo
Or, you know, kill a bunch of people. That's arguably worse than confirming anti vaxxers fears.

I doubt there is any group of people who are statistically better off trying a brand new vaccine rather than just rolling the dice on corona. I'm no antivaxxer by any stretch, but I'm also not a "I trust all scientists no matter what" guy.

I am a subject matter expert in my field. I know what it takes to be an expert, it does not make me confident.
 
Or, you know, kill a bunch of people. That's arguably worse than confirming anti vaxxers fears.

I doubt there is any group of people who are statistically better off trying a brand new vaccine rather than just rolling the dice on corona. I'm no antivaxxer by any stretch, but I'm also not a "I trust all scientists no matter what" guy.

I am a subject matter expert in my field. I know what it takes to be an expert, it does not make me confident.

I am normally as pro-vaccine as it gets (it sounds like you are too), but I agree with you here.

theres also the talk of "long term effects", which I said that "but theres no data", and they keep hounding on me with other random effects it did (including the hair loss that they ignored with me countering it with "doesn't stressful situations cause hair loss though?"). Nevermind the fact that one of them brought up ventilators and I pointed out that it has a higher chance of ruining your lungs permanently than WuFlu itself.
EDIT ADDITION: Now that I think about it, the conflict of information is really hurting people. Even if I pointed out the biggest thing: that the riots lasted for four months and counting and they didn't drop like flies on all that time, people still go "The spike is coming, you'll see!"

What? The spike is already happening. There's 186k+ dead now. The riots are definitely part of the spike, but so are people going to bars and partying
 
What? The spike is already happening. There's 186k+ dead now. The riots are definitely part of the spike, but so are people going to bars and partying
A spike is a sudden upsurge in cases and deaths. This had been the same gradual rate of cases we've been having, and testing being more available in general does not count as a spike. Deaths are also on the decline too. Why are you counting shitholes in that death rate, I'm guessing? Thinking on that logic, wouldn't it be unfair to compare a place where the air is filled with pollution against a place that's relatively clean? And the fact that most of the deaths could be the person died of something wholly different but still counts in the tally just because he had the Wuflu at that time. There's always "This person died of it", never "This person died with it".
 
A spike is a sudden upsurge in cases and deaths. This had been the same gradual rate of cases we've been having, and testing being more available in general does not count as a spike. Deaths are also on the decline too. Why are you counting shitholes in that death rate, I'm guessing? Thinking on that logic, wouldn't it be unfair to compare a place where the air is filled with pollution against a place that's relatively clean?

Deaths aren't on the decline. They're pretty steady.

And the fact that most of the deaths could be the person died of something wholly different but still counts in the tally just because he had the Wuflu at that time. There's always "This person died of it", never "This person died with it".

Citation needed on this one bro
 
I just want life to go back to the old normal. How hard is it for people to realize that people are suffering from these decisions?
It's too far gone for that to be an option, they've killed many people and caused billions to suffer. Can you imagine their punishment if they admitted they were wrong?

There's also the paradigm that's become more common in medicine that everyone is the same as to not offend anyone, and it's not lifestyle factors which resulted in the death of a 300lb smoker but shared risk factors. To be fair though, it's a lot more than 30-40% of Americans who are too fat and face increased health risks (80-90% by measures like body fat % and belly fat).
 
For me, avoiding the vaccine is not so much about possible adverse events, nor the tinfoil theory that it is a Trojan Horse for a quantum dot tattoo tracking device (although that does give me the heebie jeebies).

No, it is about not giving the VirusTyrants the satisfaction of making myself their property.

here's a big thunk, what if the vaccine isn't a vaccine? but not in the way you mean, but the other way around? (getting into drain totger territory here, so feel free to skip it)

1. politicians aren't dumb (even we think so, you don't get there being a retard, and even if they are you have the right people on your payroll). so they must know that pumping millions into shit while export and taxes are dropping like bass in a dubstep track, this shit isn't sustainable long term or even short term.

2. corona is a pretty big pile of nothing that would never warrant that effort or investment.

3. the population on the other hand IS dumb, and has been clamoring for a easily understandable magical mcguffin from the start. first it was tests, then masks, now vaccines.

4. you can't just open up everything at this point and walk back and all the crap from the last months. but any vaccine would be a valid excuse to do so.

so if people want a vaccine that much, why not give it to them? we know by now corona's fatality rate, and no cure is perfect so you'll always have people dying. might as well say the placebo works and is the cause no one gets sick anymore, the remaining deaths are edge cases due to other factors (sound familiar?). it would also be much easier to hide in the long run instead of a pile of corpses or other effects a hardly tested vaccine used widely in the population would have. this way you could open everything back up, which is effectively what people want, and even if someone later comes out and claims it does nothing - who cares, we're long back to normal by then and the goldfish memory of the average population is already sperging about the other "bad thing" the news cycle pushes that week.

Hm, on one hand, there are some great ways to have space efficient interior design now, but on the other hand, those tiny houses are still designed to just spend as little time as possible inside. Would be interesting to try and use all the clever little tricks from the Tiny House movement and apply them in a space-efficient shelter underneath your house. Definitely need a bit more floor space than a Tiny House. They look cozy, but if you have to stay inside for longer periods of time I can't imagine that it's gonna be fun. Have provisions for some sort of physical activity at least.
This may sound weird but I actually love confined spaces. I like to be able to see any entrance and exit to any given room that I'm in.

bunkers are a meme unless they are either impenetrable or secret enough no one will try to get into yours. because when shit hit the fan and society collapses to a point you'd need a bunker, then what? sitting alone in your hole trying to fend of a bunch of desperate former neighbors that didn't prep 24/7? and if you try to keep it secret, are you willing to silence anyone who stumbles over your hidey hole so it doesn't lead to the previous situation? good luck calling the police.

TLDR: when society goes off the rails you want to be as far away as possible from said society. fucking off into the woods is a much easier chance for survival than sitting in a hole (if possible combine both and you're set).

EDIT: forgot to add, if you wanna know what I mean: https://www.skyhorsepublishing.com/9781510707849/survival/
 
Last edited:
bunkers are a meme unless they are either impenetrable or secret enough no one will try to get into yours. because when shit hit the fan and society collapses to a point you'd need a bunker, then what? sitting alone in your hole trying to fend of a bunch of desperate former neighbors that didn't prep 24/7? and if you try to keep it secret, are you willing to silence anyone who stumbles on your hidey hole so it doesn't lead to the previous situation? good luck calling the police.

TLDR: when society goes off the rails you want to be as far away as possible from said society. fucking off into the woods is a much easier chance for survival than sitting in a hole (if possible combine both and you're set).

I can agree with most of this. However I think putting it way out in the middle of nowhere is unrealistic at this time and moreover supremely inconvenient. Keeping it hidden and incredibly secret is very important however. I personally want a false rolling wall kind of deal and a legit vault door. Of course having it be blast proof is practically a must if at all possible. Otherwise what's the point?
 
China's standard practice was to use methylprednisolone and to put people on ventilators. That's actually the wrong treatment. COVID-19 is an airborne vascular endothelial disease. In someone with endotheliitis of the pulmonary vasculature, ventilators will readily cause VILI and turn the lungs into mush.

COVID-19 weakens the vasculature of the lungs. Ventilators stretch the injured blood vessels and cause hemorrhage. This obsession with invasive ventilation actually killed thousands of people in New York. It's far better to treat COVID-19 as a vascular disease rather than a respiratory one.
So they set a poor precedent that unfortunately got followed in areas where there was healthcare collapse? Italy and New York had so many people in critical condition and on vents. I remember the shock and horror at the lung damage that happened to people who had died of the disease. How much of that was due to ventilators? There's a lot of debate about how government policy fucked up the response, but if vents caused a sizeable number of deaths this part of the response was pretty bad too in hindsight. The New York nurses who spoke out about the shitshow over there brought up medical residents improperly using the vents multiple times.

How many people are going to want this vaccine anyway? The people terrified of this virus aren't going to be all gung-ho about a rush job when Trump's the one who wanted it. A vaccine won't stop the skeptics from being skeptical. The coronahoax crowd thinks TPTB are tracking them. The only people I can think of who will want this are the people who will accept anything fed to them if they think it'll mean things will go back to normal.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back