2020 U.S. Presidential Election - Took place November 3, 2020. Former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden assumed office January 20, 2021.

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This year has brought out the worst in everyone? OK then.

Please, inform us of what the far-Right has done in response to the various BLM riots over the past few months that is even half as egregious. I shall wait for an accounting.

Until I see it, I must say that it seems to me that you are conjuring "both sides are about the same" fears when the reality of the past few months has dashed those kinds of assumptions. If it were true, counter-BLM protests should be similarly violent and raucous, and they are not.
Forgive me, I should've clarified. When I said it brought out the worst in everyone, I meant that this year has divided a lot of people, and made them a lot more paranoid and angry than they'd usually be. Furthermore, when I said both sides are the same, I was referring to my pendulum statement back in my first post. What I meant was that when the politic pendulum swings back-and-forth, both sides get to show their lunacy.

The far-Right was never truly in power, at least in America, but just because it wasn't doesn't mean people on that side didn't lash out and cause a lot of damage. It was never rampant, but it did happen, and it could happen again. That doesn't mean we should just let the retarded violence on the far-Left slide, though.
I meant to put the Left and Right for those respective things. The Left has a proven record of it, while I’m seeing a increasing chance of the Right flipping out.
Basically this.
 
That's fine. I mainly wanted an acknowledgement of the fact that the two sides are truly not equal in most meaningful metrics. Yes, the far-Right has engaged in violence, but because they lack institutional backing, it is different in both magnitude and quality.

They are not allowed to organize or escape from the law, and if they do they don't get the protection of "it's an ideology not an organization, thus they can't be called domestic terrorists."

It is simply silly to be scared of them, because all institutional eyes are on them and begging them to act out so that the FBI can justify its existence.
 
There is also conservative leaning media in the form of talk radio (Rush Limbaugh in particular) and websites like Breitbart. Hollywood has leaned left for a long time but it's more that right wing media is separated than that it doesn't exist.

Various polls have suggested that most voters know that Hunter Biden is involved in some kind of scandal, despite left wing media not reporting it.
Talk radio is much younger and is also much less established. I'm not saying the Republicans haven't tried to do the same, I'm saying the left-leaning bodies are much more established and just generally more prevalent. The trope of Republicans being out of touch old white men isn't really far from the truth and their media for a long time reflected that.

edit: Forgot to mention the NY Post thing imo is more due to the internet and Streissand effect more than it is the Republicans doing their part. If you want to see a true reflection of the media's grasp on the flow of information, talk to a non-internet-nerd about Kenosha.
 
Talk radio is much younger and is also much less established. I'm not saying the Republicans haven't tried to do the same, I'm saying the left-leaning bodies are much more established and just generally more prevalent. The trope of Republicans being out of touch old white men isn't really far from the truth and their media for a long time reflected that.

The problem with the Democrats is that their young people drank the Koolaid that their old people were passing out, but knew enough not to actually drink. Young Democrats are almost always political suicide to run because they are crazy.

There's a reason that, mysteriously, Biden is the oldest candidate in the race.
 
Literally this.

If Biden is elected, I could foresee the right turning into the rabid haters of him like how the left has been to Trump the past four years. I don't like Biden a bit, but it'd be very funny if we have to make a thread on "Biden Derangement Syndrome" because the right would've been hypocritical about mocking the left for their rabid hatred of Trump while they would've been buttmad about Biden. There wouldn't be any difference between TDS and BDS at all, other than the political ideologies.

side note - i forever blame @FuckedUp for my unironic support of jorgensen this election

If Biden wins, he won't last long enough for the BDS to even get properly rolling.

The energy of the left's unhinged hatred of Trump is the only thing keeping Team Joe going. Shit, at this point, it's the only thing keeping Joe on two feet

Once Trump is gone, and the rage wears off, the left is going to have no choice but to simmer down and face the reality of what they've actually done, and it's going to be impossible for them to keep up the charade that Joe Biden is a viable human with a functioning brain.

My guess would be that the left will turn on Joe equally as savage as the rabid haters on the right, towards the end of shunting him aside to make way for Cacklin' Kammy.
 
Talk radio is much younger and is also much less established. I'm not saying the Republicans haven't tried to do the same, I'm saying the left-leaning bodies are much more established and just generally more prevalent. The trope of Republicans being out of touch old white men isn't really far from the truth and their media for a long time reflected that.

edit: Forgot to mention the NY Post thing imo is more due to the internet and Streissand effect more than it is the Republicans doing their part. If you want to see a true reflection of the media's grasp on the flow of information, talk to a non-internet-nerd about Kenosha.
The Democratic leadership are also out of touch old people, thought not necessarily white or men.
 
The problem with the Democrats is that their young people drank the Koolaid that their old people were passing out, but knew enough not to actually drink. Young Democrats are almost always political suicide to run because they are crazy.

There's a reason that, mysteriously, Biden is the oldest candidate in the race.
I think this is a bit unfair, and actually misses the true horror of it. With the exception of someone like Bernie, most older democrats got a rude awakening when the true extent of the horrors of the USSR were reveled. This lead to left wing parties being basically unelectable for a period, and lead to the Thatcher and Reagan governments in the anglo-sphere. Whats happening isn't the younger left-wing party members drinking what the older used but never drank, its the younger left forgetting the bitter lessons the older left learned the hard way.
 
It is simply silly to be scared of them, because all institutional eyes are on them and begging them to act out so that the FBI can justify its existence.
Sorry dude. I heard different.

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https://twitter.com/sryyourestupid/status/1322982200741138433 (https://archive.vn/zSg6Y)
 
My guess would be that the left will turn on Joe equally as savage as the rabid haters on the right, towards the end of shunting him aside to make way for Cacklin' Kammy.

This is right, and yet not!

There's actually multiple factions on the left. There's the woke left, then there's the dirtbag left. The woke left like Kamala because PoC, but then there's true believers in socialism dirtbag left know she's a neoliberal.

---

I think this is a bit unfair, and actually misses the true horror of it. With the exception of someone like Bernie, most older democrats got a rude awakening when the true extent of the horrors of the USSR were reveled. This lead to left wing parties being basically unelectable for a period, and lead to the Thatcher and Reagan governments in the anglo-sphere. Whats happening isn't the younger left-wing party members drinking what the older used but never drank, its the younger left forgetting the bitter lessons the older left learned the hard way.

I disagree, because the older left is still using that Koolaid. Let's not forget that time in the Dem debates where everyone wanted to give illegals medical insurance, as if that was somehow a pressing issue to American citizens.
 
Uuuhg, don't get me started on what makes up that absolutely bullshit statistic.

Fun fact, that is an actual statistic. But how they GOT it? If a republican shot another republican in a fight, it gets counted. But if a gangbanger shoots another gangbanger, even if both are democrats, its "Gang violence".

it also doesn't factor in gun ownership rates, or motive. At all.
 

Nate Silver: "Without Pennsylvania, Biden becomes an underdog"​

Joe Biden will become "an underdog" if he fails to win Pennsylvania and its 20 electoral votes, FiveThirtyEight founder Nate Silver said on ABC's "This Week" Sunday.

Why it matters: Trump won the battleground by less than a point in 2016, as he narrowly swept swing states in the Rust Belt to secure victory in the Electoral College. FiveThirtyEight's average of polls currently shows Biden with a 5% lead in Pennsylvania.

What he's saying: Silver told "This Week" that if Trump ends up winning the election, "it would come down to Pennsylvania."
  • "Pennsylvania has not bumped up to a 7- or 8-point Biden lead like we see in Michigan and Wisconsin. It's 5 points. It's not a big early voting state, so a lot of votes have not yet been cast in Pennsylvania," Silver said.
  • "Among the votes that were sent in by mail, there are some provisions about a naked ballot, a security envelope. That could make things more complicated. You could have the courts involved. You have some protests, looting in Philadelphia. There's lots of stuff going on."
  • "Maybe a lot of little things add up and Biden loses Pennsylvania by half a point, and then he doesn't quite pull off Arizona or North Carolina. He does have other options. ... But still, without Pennsylvania, then Biden becomes an underdog."
The big picture: FiveThirtyEight gives President Trump a 10% chance of winning the election and Biden a 90% chance.
So... Trump's going to be crushed by the overwhelming power of Biden's enormous support base and 90% chance to win, and yet the entire election comes down to whether or not Biden wins virtually the only state he's bothered to campaign in. Nate how the fuck is Biden simultaneously the overpowering, landslide candidate and completely dependent on a single state that keeps him from becoming the pitiful underdog candidate?

Why the fuck does anyone listen to this bald spot on stilts?
 
I disagree, because the older left is still using that Koolaid. Let's not forget that time in the Dem debates where everyone wanted to give illegals medical insurance, as if that was somehow a pressing issue to American citizens.
This has less to do with being left wing, and more to do with pragmatic, often cruel, political calculus.

New immigrants and their direct descendants (And illegal immigrants direct descendants) overwhelmingly vote democrat.

Older generations (3+) start trending more and more red.

So the hope is to get more legal (And illegal immigrants who will have lots of kids) to come here, providing a constantly growing voting block.
 

Nate Silver: "Without Pennsylvania, Biden becomes an underdog"​


So... Trump's going to be crushed by the overwhelming power of Biden's enormous support base and 90% chance to win, and yet the entire election comes down to whether or not Biden wins virtually the only state he's bothered to campaign in. Nate how the fuck is Biden simultaneously the overpowering, landslide candidate and completely dependent on a single state that keeps him from becoming the pitiful underdog candidate?

Why the fuck does anyone listen to this bald spot on stilts?
The funny thing is that Pennsylvania is not going to be called on election night as far as I know so it says a lot about Nate Plastic's predictions and Biden's chances if he just needs Pennsylvania to win
 
This has less to do with being left wing, and more to do with pragmatic, often cruel, political calculus.

New immigrants and their direct descendants (And illegal immigrants direct descendants) overwhelmingly vote democrat.

Older generations (3+) start trending more and more red.

So the hope is to get more legal (And illegal immigrants who will have lots of kids) to come here, providing a constantly growing voting block.

I should be clearer. I absolutely agree with you on the substance of this, but I use it to dispute the notion that the older left "got a rude awakening" from the USSR falling. That phrasing implies that they had some sort of moral epiphany, the notion of which I am objecting to.

EDIT: Corrected phrase used.

Also, it feels to me like our disagreement is more about whether the older left actually drank the Koolaid and got disillusioned, versus me thinking they never drank it.
 
Even if Biden wins, there will be another Republican president. America will not collapse into a hellish dictatorship. The doomers saying this are exactly the same as the people who spouted and having been spouting the same thing about Trump ever since he became president.

American politics is basically a pendulum that swings back-and-forth. The far-Right met their end in the early 90s after fundamentalists, and right-wing terrorists utterly destroyed any good faith it might've had left. The far-Left is currently in a deathspiral just like how the far-Right was. Though it might seem hard to believe, even if Biden wins, I think they'll be nothing more than a outdated, backwards, harmful laughingstock that the far-Right, and all that came with it are now by the end of the decade. Hell, I honestly think they'll stick around longer if Trump wins before eventually crashing and burning in a probably spectacular, and horrifying way the far-Right did if only because I think Trump winning will radicalizing them more. I just don't believe this cannibalization thing some of you have been saying. That's not how the far-Right ended, and I don't think it'll end that way for the far-Left either.

What I'm saying is that regardless of who wins, everything eventually passes, and we'll be okay. It's still gonna be one hell of a night, and there's going to be a lot of turmoil afterwards, and but eventually everything will go back to normal, and eventually the pendulum will swing back, and things won't be as crazy or chaotic as they are now.

Even if he wins, Biden isn't going to doom the nation just like Trump hasn't doomed the nation. Antifa members aren't going to be storming into your house just like how the Proud Boys and all those other faggots didn't storm into your house like the lunatics on the Left said when Trump became president.

Don't piss and moan like all the whiny SJWs did when about when Trump won if Biden somehow miraculously wins. Just keep your chin up, and don't do anything stupid. Take precautions, and shit, but don't go out causing violence, or whatever. I don't give a fuck if the fucking far-Left, BLM, or Antifa does it. Actually prove you're better than them by not doing retarded bullshit like that.

Tl;dr: America is not going to turn into an SJW version of North Korea if Biden wins, the far-Left isn't going to last for much longer, and don't go out and cause violence if the guy you backed doesn't win.
If Biden wins and implements his retarded lock down and attempts to get rid of oil, then the country is going to be facing a legit economic depression. This is what worries me, not some gay gestapo.
 
Here's an intersting article that's at least tangentially related to this coming election and what comes afterward:


A few days ago, a friend messaged me asking who the strongest GOP candidate in 2024 would be. More on that later. At roughly the same time, “Numbers Muncher” Josh Jordan posted the following on Twitter: “If Marco Rubio won the nomination in 2016, he almost certainly beats Hillary Clinton. In that scenario, where is he polling today? I'd guess he would be at least a slight favorite, and he would've confirmed three Supreme Court justices just as Trump did. Hope it was worth it!”


I enjoy the “but Rubio had a boat!” meme as much as anyone, but this reflects a deep misunderstanding of what happened in 2016, what would have happened if a non-Trump candidate had won the nomination that year, and the general state of play in American politics. For purposes of this article, let’s set aside the unique, and overlooked, shortcomings of Rubio, who famously got mauled by Chris Christie in a New Hampshire debate. Some see that as an unfortunate turning point in the race. In reality, it is more the moment Rubio was exposed, and Christie did the Republicans a favor.
There are three problems with the “Rubio (or any other establishment candidate) would have won.” First, it overlooks the unique difficulties that Donald Trump posed for Democrats in 2016. The Democratic playbook against Republicans had remained more or less the same since 1992. You could portray the GOP candidate as someone who wanted to gut Medicare and Social Security. Or, you could portray him as a closet theocrat.


Rubio – and most of the other candidates – would have been highly vulnerable to either attack. The Florida senator’s plans, for example, would have eliminated most capital gains taxes (leaving Mitt Romney paying almost no taxes) while eliminating the Department of Education. It isn’t difficult to see how that could be attacked. At the same time, Rubio favored making abortion illegal, even in cases of rape or incest. While that’s arguably the intellectually consistent pro-life stance, it also polls very, very poorly. Every major GOP candidate was vulnerable to at least one of these attacks, and usually both.


As for Trump? Neither of those attacks landed. He famously opposed entitlement reform, and ran as a big-spending Republican. And the closet theocrat charge? Needless to say, that mantle is hard to hang on Trump. Clinton was left with a series of personal attacks on him that failed to resonate as much as Democrats had hoped.



Second, Rubio et al. might have amassed similar – or better – popular vote counts, but they wouldn’t have been as efficiently distributed as Trump’s and still would have lost. Remember, in 2012 the Electoral College actually had a Democratic bias to it, in part because Romney famously failed to connect with blue-collar voters because of his stance on fiscal issues and his culturally upscale persona.



Rubio would have done little to fix that. Yes, he would have run better in the suburbs and probably among Hispanics. He might have carried Nevada, and we would probably not be talking about blue (or purple) Arizona or Texas today. At the same time, it is hard to see him appealing to out-of-work steelworkers in western Pennsylvania in the same way that Trump did. With massive support from rural and small-town voters, Trump barely carried Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. Rubio wouldn’t have gotten that turnout, or made up for it in the suburbs given his social conservatism.


Which leads to the third point. Part of the problem that the GOP has – part of how it got Trump, to flog another meme – is that it never quite got over winning in 1980. Ronald Reagan was elected on a platform of accomplishing a number of things. Primarily, he had a mandate to get the economy growing, to tame inflation, and to bring tax rates down. People talk about the top rate of 70% in 1981, but they forget that a couple making $29,900 (about $85,000 in today’s dollars) found themselves in the 37% top tax bracket. That is roughly the top tax bracket Barack Obama established in 2013, but it was limited to couples making $450,000. Additionally, these brackets were not indexed for inflation, so more and more people found themselves paying very high rates. Other goals included slowing the brakes on social change and defeating the Soviet Union.


By the time Bill Clinton was elected, most of these changes had been integrated into American society and even into the Democratic Party platform. The goal of the Federal Reserve was seen as primarily fighting inflation (Clinton renominated Alan Greenspan as Fed chairman), the Soviet Union was defeated and Clinton adopted a relatively hawkish foreign policy for a Democrat, and crucially, our tax debates were over whether the top rate should be 35% or 39.6%, while low tax rates for the middle class were viewed as sacrosanct. Social liberalism rebranded itself from a liberationist doctrine to one that emphasized its continuities with longstanding middle-class values (“hate is not a family value”; “abortion should be safe, legal and rare”).



Yet during this time, the Republican Party did not evolve. It became a bit of a running joke that the party’s solution for every societal ill was a tax cut. With Democrats accepting low taxes for the middle class, Republicans were left arguing that lower top rates for the wealthy would stimulate growth and, implausibly, would not hurt revenues. Having curbed welfare as an entitlement under Clinton, Republicans were left pursuing less popular spending cuts to education, Medicare and Social Security.


In foreign policy, Republicans tried to project the old Cold War framework onto the War on Terror, with catastrophic consequences for the party, the country, and the Middle East. In his 2008 stump speech for the presidential nomination, Mitt Romney carried around a three-legged stool and claimed to be the only candidate who could unite the economic, social, and foreign policy conservatives -- without trying to update what those might mean for the 2010s.


In short, “zombie Reaganism,” as it came to be called, became a more extreme, less politically popular agenda than Reagan had advocated. It was a recipe for a wartime president winning 286 electoral votes in the 2004 presidential election (following a disputed win in 2000), and substantial Electoral College losses in other years. As I half-joked elsewhere, the GOP establishment’s “be the world’s policeman/cut Social Security/worst-of-all-possible-worlds-by-being socially-conservative-but-not-really-meaning it” agenda was a recipe for winning the votes of three guys in think tank cubicles (two of whom voted Gary Johnson anyway).


All of which is to say, if Trump is defeated, there’s no going back for Republicans. The establishment failure to update Republicanism created a massive opportunity for a candidate promising something different, an opportunity which Donald Trump seized (and proved could be effective). Even if he loses next week, it is a “NeverTrump” delusion that the old GOP coalition is going to be resurrected. The political demand isn’t there, and whomever is nominated in 2024 will likely have an agenda that more closely resembles Trump’s than Mitt Romney’s.



If I had to sum it up more succinctly, I would do so this way: The successful Republican candidates over the past 50 years have all had a cultural connection to what some jokingly call ’Murica. While GOP establishment types wished George W. Bush would (could) speak more clearly, or at least pronounce “nuclear” correctly, that lack of polish likely resonated with working-class Republicans in a way that Romney’s crisp verbiage did not. Reagan spoke the language of Middle America. To be sure, Donald Trump’s vulgarity contrasts sharply with Reagan’s class, and that has limited his opportunities for political success substantially, but he nevertheless connects with a group of voters left cold by Bob Dole.


To get back to my friend’s question, I answered, “Assuming that he loses, but doesn’t lose by a landslide, and is available, the immediate frontrunner is Trump.” In the event that he doesn’t run (or loses badly), there are other candidates that we can discuss – Ron DeSantis, Tom Cotton, Josh Hawley, or Nikki Haley. All of those candidates, however, are notable for their varying degrees of populist support. But just as the New Deal coalition had lost its vitality by the 1970s, prompting Jimmy Carter to try and carve out a new path for the Democrats (perfected by Bill Clinton 12 years later), so too will Republicans have to find an agenda that looks different than Reagan’s, regardless of how Trump fares.

Any thoughts on this? Where does the GOP go after Trump?
 
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