Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

[Just wandering]

Apologies if already posted. Family in Canada had six people in their house and their neighbours ratted them out to the Stasi.

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1345413604787544066

View attachment 1825472

Nasty business. Good on the family for putting up a fight, especially that Grandma. I would not want to be the neighbours that snitched. What scum!


Also, can I tag @Otterly with a medical question? It's a totally wild hypothesis by a lay person but I want to hear how it sounds. So we're now being told that the vaccine may not stop you getting it and may not stop you transmitting it but will help mitigate the symptoms 70% of the time. I don't think they really know but anyway, if that is how it works doesn't that remove one of the main evolutionary pressures for the virus to become less lethal over time which viruses normally do? Doesn't this create a situation where the virus remains / becomes more deadly than otherwise for any non-vaccinated people?

it was posted on r/quebec. I must say most redditor creamed themself.
The point is you should avoid escalation and complie when officer warn you. Because what I read the cop warned to the family they should all go home or else they get fined, look like thing turned sour and they guy may even have tried to fight the cop...

 

[PaleTay]

it was posted on r/quebec. I must say most redditor creamed themself.
The point is you should avoid escalation and complie when officer warn you. Because what I read the cop warned to the family they should all go home or else they get fined, look like thing turned sour and they guy may even have tried to fight the cop...

Yeah totally. Remember people, you have to suck the cop's dick when he takes you to your pod because the government would never become tyrannical or do anything to hurt you.

 

[Otterly]

Apologies if already posted. Family in Canada had six people in their house and their neighbours ratted them out to the Stasi.

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1345413604787544066

View attachment 1825472

Nasty business. Good on the family for putting up a fight, especially that Grandma. I would not want to be the neighbours that snitched. What scum!


Also, can I tag @Otterly with a medical question? It's a totally wild hypothesis by a lay person but I want to hear how it sounds. So we're now being told that the vaccine may not stop you getting it and may not stop you transmitting it but will help mitigate the symptoms 70% of the time. I don't think they really know but anyway, if that is how it works doesn't that remove one of the main evolutionary pressures for the virus to become less lethal over time which viruses normally do? Doesn't this create a situation where the virus remains / becomes more deadly than otherwise for any non-vaccinated people?

Bingo. Yes it does.

this is one reason among several why no one has made a common cold vaccine. Vaccines are good if they provide sterilising immunity (ie stop you getting and passing on) a disease. And they’re good for diseases that stand a good chance of killing or crippling you. Thus for example measles - it wipes your immune memory and makes you susceptible again to things you’ve already had, so a measles epidemic is tracked afterwards by an increase in deaths from all infectious diseases as immunity falls. It can also kill you, or leave you deaf. So that’s a good candidate for a vaccine. Ditto stuff like smallpox, or polio, or rabies. Or rubella - whoch isn’t harmful as an adult but is catastrophic sometimes in pregnancy. Risk benefit calculation comes down heavily on the side of the vaccine. Things like flu can kill those in risk groups so we tend to vaccinate them only.
But.., A common cold doesn’t kill anyone who isn’t in a very precarious state anyway, and your immune system needs something to do or it’ll turn on you. Thus the risk/benefit calculation for a cold virus is entirely negative at the population level. We need to be exposed to mild pathogens or we, paradoxically, become less healthy. Kids who grow up on farms have fewer allergies for example.
A new virus will usually become MORE transmissible and LESS dangerous because that maximises transmission. People who feel like shit stay home and don’t pass the worse strains in as much, and so the people carrying strains which give fewer symptoms spread. A non sterilising vaccine removes that pressure to a degree. What does that mean in practice? You’ll be reassured to hear that we have absolutely no idea.
But yes, in theory, the current ‘vaccinate everyone’ push removes one selection pressure for lower severity. We need to be vaccinating ONLY the high risk groups, and letting this circulate and evolve into what it will end up as, which is another seasonal cold. People compare this to the flu but it’s more accurate to say this is a cold on steroids - it’s effectively the turbo-sniffles. When such things are introduced to an immune-naive population is it nasty, as seen when the new world got old world visitors. Things like the common cold, as well as what we think of as more serious illnesses, killed a lot of people.
All drugs, vaccines etc have potential risk. For a frail 85 year old the choice to be vaccinated may be a no brainer. For a ten year old, the equation is totally different.

Vaxxers and protect the vulnerable, everyone else back out and society working again with sane safety measures.

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

Also, can I tag @Otterly with a medical question? It's a totally wild hypothesis by a lay person but I want to hear how it sounds. So we're now being told that the vaccine may not stop you getting it and may not stop you transmitting it but will help mitigate the symptoms 70% of the time. I don't think they really know but anyway, if that is how it works doesn't that remove one of the main evolutionary pressures for the virus to become less lethal over time which viruses normally do? Doesn't this create a situation where the virus remains / becomes more deadly than otherwise for any non-vaccinated people?

IMO, not likely. There is no evolutionary pressure that would cause a statistical push towards greater lethality, or even a change in conditions which would give a more lethal, less transmissible strain greater or equal survivability/reproductive success.

If anything it is selecting for greater transmissibility, that is viral lineages which can still jump from host-to-host despite being BTFO'd by the host's immune system on landing.

You would also have to ask yourself how vaccination is any different than a recovered immune system to the current F(x) generation viral lineages/substrains; and in most cases its really not.

Not a medical person; but I am a biologist and this definitely seems to me like an evolutionary question more than "how to treat patient" question, so apologies if that's not what you were looking for.

But.., A common cold doesn’t kill anyone who isn’t in a very precarious state anyway, and your immune system needs something to do or it’ll turn on you. Thus the risk/benefit calculation for a cold virus is entirely negative at the population level. We need to be exposed to mild pathogens or we, paradoxically, become less healthy. Kids who grow up on farms have fewer allergies for example.
A new virus will usually become MORE transmissible and LESS dangerous because that maximises transmission. People who feel like shit stay home and don’t pass the worse strains in as much, and so the people carrying strains which give fewer symptoms spread. A non sterilising vaccine removes that pressure to a degree. What does that mean in practice? You’ll be reassured to hear that we have absolutely no idea.

So you're saying that human behavior is an(the?) evolutionary pressure?

Because it seems to me that a vaccine/herd immunity would just shift pressure towards the virus being able to quickly reproduce and become airborne again without needing a full infection/take-over of the host's throat & lungs.
That seems like transmissibility is still the "favored"* strategy in the viral evolutionary arms race.

 

[Otterly]

For some reason I can’t quote you @Fanatical Pragmatist bit yeah, it’s certainly AN evolutionary pressure. Whether it’s THE evolutionary pressure above all else is definitely unknown. It’s thought to be one big driver for the 1917 flu as troops were concentrated in hospitals and encountered healthy people in transit and at the destination.
I would imagine it will depend on the percentage vaccinated vs not, but imagine two strains circulating, A (worse) and B (less bad.) it would be fairly simple to model out some basic conditions to see which strain dominates after x generations.
A decay rate to less severe and more transmissible
A transmission rate, changing as it gets less severe (an assumption.)
B transmission rate
Pressure would be modelled by something that takes into account time on feet /moving to encounter others while infected with that time being less with a worse strain and more with a less severe one.
How do these change over time with that pressure removed, for 10% of population? 20? Etc.

Would it shift to the same as a herd immunity? I honestly don’t know. There’s basically a ‘free pass’ passage through a host removing that pressure of ‘if you feel shit stay home, see fewer people.’ It’s an interesting one to think about. Let me know if you find any work done on the concept, it’d be interesting to read!

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

For some reason I can’t quote you @Fanatical Pragmatist bit yeah, it’s certainly AN evolutionary pressure. Whether it’s THE evolutionary pressure above all else is definitely unknown. It’s thought to be one big driver for the 1917 flu as troops were concentrated in hospitals and encountered healthy people in transit and at the destination.
I would imagine it will depend on the percentage vaccinated vs not, but imagine two strains circulating, A (worse) and B (less bad.) it would be fairly simple to model out some basic conditions to see which strain dominates after x generations.
A decay rate to less severe and more transmissible
A transmission rate, changing as it gets less severe (an assumption.)
B transmission rate
Pressure would be modelled by something that takes into account time on feet /moving to encounter others while infected with that time being less with a worse strain and more with a less severe one.
How do these change over time with that pressure removed, for 10% of population? 20? Etc.

You are absolutely right that its a lot of "what if?" speculation.

There's also a lot that goes into spreadability/transmissibility beyond being a 1-dimensional trait; there is time of survival outside the body, time it takes to enter a cell and lyse the cell, range of cell tissues it is able to infect & lyse, etc.

Though then it raises the question of how a super-quick spreading virus affects a hosts immune system who has had no experience with that virus?

Would it shift to the same as a herd immunity? I honestly don’t know.

My working assumption was that any immunity conferred by the vaccine would be the same as immunity from natural exposure.

(though if rumors that the new vaccine doesn't affect T-cell recognition are true that would not only change things, but be an astronomical miscalculation)

It’s an interesting one to think about. Let me know if you find any work done on the concept, it’d be interesting to read!

Will do!
Its definitely a lot of speculation and questions for sure!

 

[Otterly]

My working assumption was that any immunity conferred by the vaccine would be the same as immunity from natural exposure.

Yes I think that’s reasonable.
What I wonder is if someone gets a strain that would normally have knocked them on their arse and put them in bed within two days of onset, but now they are vaccinated, shedding that strain and interacting with others as they have partial immunity so they don’t feel ill, how does that affect spread of that strain? Say unvaccinated they’d have felt like crap, stayed home and seen four people. Vaccinated they’re still shedding, and go to work for a week on the bus/in the office. Maybe they interact with forty people closely.

These are fun conversations to have, and one reason I enjoy the farms so much

 

[Smug Cat]

Bingo. Yes it does.

this is one reason among several why no one has made a common cold vaccine. Vaccines are good if they provide sterilising immunity (ie stop you getting and passing on) a disease. And they’re good for diseases that stand a good chance of killing or crippling you. Thus for example measles - it wipes your immune memory and makes you susceptible again to things you’ve already had, so a measles epidemic is tracked afterwards by an increase in deaths from all infectious diseases as immunity falls. It can also kill you, or leave you deaf. So that’s a good candidate for a vaccine. Ditto stuff like smallpox, or polio, or rabies. Or rubella - whoch isn’t harmful as an adult but is catastrophic sometimes in pregnancy. Risk benefit calculation comes down heavily on the side of the vaccine. Things like flu can kill those in risk groups so we tend to vaccinate them only.
But.., A common cold doesn’t kill anyone who isn’t in a very precarious state anyway, and your immune system needs something to do or it’ll turn on you. Thus the risk/benefit calculation for a cold virus is entirely negative at the population level. We need to be exposed to mild pathogens or we, paradoxically, become less healthy. Kids who grow up on farms have fewer allergies for example.
A new virus will usually become MORE transmissible and LESS dangerous because that maximises transmission. People who feel like shit stay home and don’t pass the worse strains in as much, and so the people carrying strains which give fewer symptoms spread. A non sterilising vaccine removes that pressure to a degree. What does that mean in practice? You’ll be reassured to hear that we have absolutely no idea.
But yes, in theory, the current ‘vaccinate everyone’ push removes one selection pressure for lower severity. We need to be vaccinating ONLY the high risk groups, and letting this circulate and evolve into what it will end up as, which is another seasonal cold. People compare this to the flu but it’s more accurate to say this is a cold on steroids - it’s effectively the turbo-sniffles. When such things are introduced to an immune-naive population is it nasty, as seen when the new world got old world visitors. Things like the common cold, as well as what we think of as more serious illnesses, killed a lot of people.
All drugs, vaccines etc have potential risk. For a frail 85 year old the choice to be vaccinated may be a no brainer. For a ten year old, the equation is totally different.

Vaxxers and protect the vulnerable, everyone else back out and society working again with sane safety measures.

Is there a precedent for a non-sterilizing vaccine? This is probably a case of me not knowing enough to know what I don't know, but I'm genuinely confused about the concept. Doesn't a vaccine work by enabling your immune system to prevent the virus from getting into your cells and replicating? If the virus can't replicate, how could the host produce enough infectious particles to infect anyone else? What would be the mechanism for preventing symptoms but not preventing virus replication and shedding?

 

[JosephStalin]

Here's the latest bullshit from the county I live in. Have doctor's appointment (not at the hospital) tomorrow morning, don't expect to see anything out of the ordinary.

SHUTDOWN ORDER LIKELY TO BE EXTENDED AS ICUs REMAIN FULL

• Fatalities at near-record levels, though case numbers have dropped a bit

Last month, when Monterey County Health Officer Dr. Ed Moreno unveiled the latest shutdown order, he told the board of supervisors the order would expire at 6 a.m. on Jan. 11.

But with the county's ICUs filled, fatalities rising, and hospitals caring for record numbers of coronavirus-positive patients, the outlook for the expiration to actually happen one week from tomorrow seems very dim. (Doesn't fucking matter! Moreno has no credibility! Cried "wolf" too often, nobody cares. I sure as fuck don't! - JS)

"We are essentially hovering at or above capacity in the ICU and it’s expected to be at that level or worse in the coming days," Brenda Moore, spokesperson for CHOMP, said today. "As of this morning we had 22 ICU patients, including 10 who are coronavirus-positive. The ICU has 20 beds and we are using another unit for overflow." (But there are NO "contingency" hospitals being set up ANYWHERE in the county, far as I know. - JS)

Her statement was underlined by data made public this morning by the Monterey County health department, showing a total of 194 coronavirus inpatients at the county's four hospitals — down a bit from the record of 202 on Dec. 31, but still at a critical level. And there are 31 Covid-19 patients in the county's ICUs, according to the California Department of Public Health — a number that's down from a high of 38 the day after Christmas, but which continues to test the resources of not only CHOMP, but also Salinas Valley Memorial and Natividad.

Additionally, this week there were 10 fatalities among county residents who had the virus, making this the county's third-worst week for coronavirus-related deaths. According to county health department data, the deaths increased the county's total to 196 since the epidemic began. (Less than 200 since mid-March! Please! Bet we've had multiples of that die from heart disease/cancer! Wouldn't be surprised if we've had more than that die of drug overdoses! Jesus! Put things in perspective and the truth will set you free. - JS)

"We are saddened to report that we have had 4 deaths of inpatients with coronavirus since Dec. 31, plus one person who died in the Emergency Department yesterday after arriving by ambulance," Moore said.

Amid all that gloomy news, there is one bright spot: Over the past seven days, 2,751 new coronavirus cases were confirmed in Monterey County — down from 3,037 for the week ending Dec. 27. The decrease is too small to show that the shutdown order is starting to produce results, but at least it's a number that's moving in the right direction. (Doesn't matter WHAT direction ANYTHING is going in, they're still going to do everything they can to fuck us over. No credibility, no trust, they can go bite my crank. - JS)

Of this week's 2,751 cases, 2,049 were in Salinas and the Salinas Valley, while 383 were in the Monterey Peninsula, including 128 in Seaside, 106 in Marina, 78 in Monterey, 26 in Pacific Grove, 12 in Carmel area (93923), nine in Carmel Valley, six in Pebble Beach, five in Carmel-by-the-Sea and three in Big Sur. (Ten more cases that were found this week in the Peninsula have not been assigned to any particular location.) While these numbers for the Peninsula are significantly higher than they were during the first six months of the epidemic, some parts of the Peninsula are still experiencing by far the lowest infection rates in the county. (Doesn't matter, the entire county always gets fucked over at once, all the time. - JS)

And the CDPH said this morning that 414,684 vaccine doses had been administered in California as of Jan. 1. While there has been nothing new over the last several days about additional vaccines being available in Monterey County, there's a good chance something will be forthcoming early in the week, and as soon as any kind of announcement is made, you will be able to read about it here. (Big fucking deal. Over 40,000.000 in the state. Oh, well, someone can have my doses. - JS)

To see the latest coronavirus data from the Monterey County health department, click here. For the most up-to-date info from the CDPH, click here. CHOMP has a very useful page with detailed information about the vaccines, which you can find here. Below, you can also find our latest charts and tables about the status of the epidemic in Monterey County, including cases by zip code.

 

[Jar-Jar Fanboy]

Apologies if already posted. Family in Canada had six people in their house and their neighbours ratted them out to the Stasi.

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1345413604787544066

View attachment 1825472

Nasty business. Good on the family for putting up a fight, especially that Grandma. I would not want to be the neighbours that snitched. What scum!

I'm a fucking Leaf, and the day of the rake can't come soon enough. Fuck the government for overstepping their bounds, fuck the police for enforcing this shit, and fuck the neighbours who snitched on them. The right to gather peacefully in your own home is a right all free citizens should have, regardless of a pandemic. Basic rights are being infringed in the name of "safety" and people are cheering for it. That Star Wars quote is true, I guess; "So this is how democracy dies: with thunderous applause." Sidenote, I logged into Facebook, which I really need to stop doing, and saw that someone I knew shared a post about how Covid doesn't discriminate based on "gender, race, religion, or age," And that's just completely false. Looking at Canadian death stats, about 90% of our deaths were over the age of 70, so yeah, age definitely plays a factor. Misinformation like this is how you brainwash a nation, and keep them living in fear

 

[PurpleEater]

We're all about to get Commiefornia'fied.

 

[Roybertitos]

So my mom has the option to take an American vaccine from her company, she's wondering if it's worth it. I'm of the camp of wait and see what happens, but it could be good for her peace of mind. What's the consensus on them? Are they really going to melt your sperm count and give you bells palsy and shit? Or is that all wacky conspiracy theorist shit?

 

[Hollywood Hitler]

We're all about to get Commiefornia'fied.

View attachment 1827129

Could we just Gaddafi this guy already?

 

[Michael Jacks0n]

We're all about to get Commiefornia'fied.

View attachment 1827129

Just put on a BLM shirt and start rioting: then you'll get a free pass for breaking lockdown restrictions and the public will be on your side.

But seriously: I guess this means the vaccine and wearing masks both do fuckall. So, wear a mask, take the vaccine....and don't leave your house, because, uhhhh, reasons. Yeah.

 

[Grabthar's Hammer]

We're all about to get Commiefornia'fied.

View attachment 1827129

Fuck Dr. Tinpot and his "gut feeling" science.

Even if he does convince Top Cop Kamala (via Biden the Puppet) to sign a national lockdown EO, Texas, Florida and any other state whose governor still has a spine simply wouldn't enforce it. Then she'll be faced with the choice of either doing nothing and looking ineffective...or invoking the Insurrection Act and sending the military into those states to threaten families at gunpoint for trying to eat dinner at Applebee's.

 

[mandatorylurk]

A hard lockdown on top of the election bullshit will break the country in half, I have no doubt. This would really neuter the cucks on the court no matter their decision even if they try some modern Korematsu reasoning, and at this point all these people with blue lives matter on their trucks won’t have anything to lose.

I’m starting to feel we’ll see the DC cops crack granny’s skull in DC on the 6th under the guise of stopping the spread. BLM and antifa can do what they want but those people who were going to pay for hotels and food, can’t have that.

 

[Mrs. Addams]

So my mom has the option to take an American vaccine from her company, she's wondering if it's worth it. I'm of the camp of wait and see what happens, but it could be good for her peace of mind. What's the consensus on them? Are they really going to melt your sperm count and give you bells palsy and shit? Or is that all wacky conspiracy theorist shit?

My personal opinion (which is basically useless since I'm not a doctor) is that it's probably an okay risk if you're older (and therefore at higher risk from Covid). I wouldn't take it in my 20s or 30s though, cause of the lack of testing, potential for side effects that may lay dormant for years, and lack of actual danger from Covid.

 

[⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛]

Seeing reports of a new lockdown in Salt Lake City. Horrifying!

https://twitter.com/TweetWordz/status/1345900613184450563

 

[gangweedfan]

Seeing reports of a new lockdown in Salt Lake City. Horrifying!
View attachment 1827208

https://twitter.com/TweetWordz/status/1345900613184450563

This looks fake lol.

 

[Mrs. Addams]

Seeing reports of a new lockdown in Salt Lake City. Horrifying!
View attachment 1827208

https://twitter.com/TweetWordz/status/1345900613184450563

I'm not getting any hits when I google these phrases... Do we know if it's legit?