Nurse practitioner delusion / "Noctors" / "Midlevel staff" - Nurses get a 1 year degree and start thinking they are better than doctors

Christopher Robin

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Hospital administration has ballooned in size over the past decades, particularly in the United States. To combat this increase in cost, hospitals have begun replacing practising MDs with Nurse Practitioners (NPs).

What are NPs?
They are trained nurses that have a level of autonomy and decision making far beyond what you traditionally may think of when you hear the word "nurse", and in some states are able to practice entirely on their own without direct supervision.

How does one become an NP? What is their training?
After completing a Bachelors degree, one can register for any number of online only Nurse Practitioner diploma mills programmes across the US. They take crucial classes such as lobbying, finance, and leadership and management, for one year. They finish off their degree with a research project that rivals a middle school science fair.
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NP's then shadow a MD for 600 hours. They are now fully able to practice on their own in whatever field they choose. For comparison, apart from the much longer and difficult education, an MD will have a residency of around 20,000 hours.

Why is this an issue? Who cares?
Malpractice is increasing,the USA is producing thousands of entitled idiots that have a high school level of biological understanding, and allowing them to treat patients who have no idea that the person they are talking to isn't a Doctor. NPs are notoriously pissy about being seen as lower than Doctors, and will try to hide the fact that they aren't constantly. They are going as far as to buy their own badges that say "Doctor" on Amazon.
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A case study in NP incompetence is Antoinette Thompson, an NP working independently in an ER that killed a 19 year old girl in 2015 due to clear malpractice. The girl had an elevated heart rate because she had a bloodclot in her lung and her body was compensating for the lack of oxygen by increasing the heartbeats per minute. With Thompson's bullshit education and training, she treated each symptom individually like it was a textbook MCQ, and gave the girl medication to slow down her heart rate. She never considered why it was that her heart rate was increased, only that she should reduce it. A deposition was held

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where Thompson cried and said that she didn't mean to hurt her. This woman is still a practicing NP. Cases like this happen constantly, and yes, they can do more than just prescribe you drugs. Here is a 6 minute video where an actual doctor talks about having to fix multiple fucked up procedures carried out by Nps.

Why can they do all this? NPs have ridiculous lobbying, the AANP constantly demands states to increase the level of power NPs can wield.

Why are they lolcows?

NPs are incredibly defensive about their abilities. They believe they are discriminated against by Doctors, and have the same skill level and ability as them.

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In the same breath they then ask eachother the most retarded questions that really show just how little they know.

How do I look at X-rays?
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How do I ask patients questions?
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What can we actually do?
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In the medical field they are often referred to as "mid-levels", and other communities criticising their actions refer to them as "Noctors"

Where can you find these communities?

There are hundreds of Facebook groups for Nurse Practitioners ranging from harmless study groups to terrifying advice pages where they try to pool together their collective knowledge to see if it can reach the level of an actual doctor ("My patient has had chlamydia 3 times in the past 6 months, and I'm still prescribing him the exact same treatment each time and it isn't working. Weird right?", "Can I give my alcoholic patients xanax prescriptions?")

Additionally there are large communities on Twitter and even TikTok, where they shill to children into thinking they are as qualified as Doctors.


- For critical posts about NPs

The majority of the facebook groups are private, although they will accept anyone if you apply usually

One of the biggest is


TLDR
Nurses are getting shitty degrees and are getting the power to treat YOU. They fuck up constantly and scramble to defend themselves while only making it worse by highlighting their lack of knowledge in key areas. Those ethnically ambiguous overweight women twerking in the hospital while patients die beside them are likely NPs. Those literal whos on twitter that post about their glow-up etc with pictures of them graduating, and claiming to be a doctor, are likely Nps They are the medical equivalent of a chihuahua, constantly barking as if they are tough shit and looking for attention. This would be comical, if the medical industry wasn't then assigning these chihuahuas to be guard dogs.

Note: I am not American and as such could have gotten some details wrong when it comes to the requirements for becoming a NP vs a MD. I also admittedly know next to nothing on the NP lobby, apart from the fact that it is a huge pain in the ass. Let me know if there are mistakes or information to add, and I'll make the changes.
 

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@Christopher Robin are you a doctor? I'm aware of a Doctor-Nurse rivalry.
No, you couldn't pay me to become a Doctor in the modern world, I just read medical textbooks like an autist. The rivalry is very real however. Doctors are becoming more openly hostile and dismissive as nurses claims of their abilities become greater and greater.
I've seen posts by NPs talking about how they think Doctors are requesting they take two or more blood cultures simply to piss them off because they think it is hard and a waste of their time. They really have no idea what the medical relevance could be for needing more than one blood sample, and can only come to the simple conclusion that Doctors do it because don't like them.

The stereotype of Doctors being pompous assholes that are full of themselves and treat those below them as idiots has existed for ages, and there is of course a lot of truth to it. What we are experiencing now however are upgraded nurses, that now have this exact same superiority complex, without any of the skills to warrant it.
 
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As for becoming an MD in the states, you need a four-year undergraduate degree, preferably in a related field. Pass an admission test before you actually go to medical college. Pass a few more exams during your four year stay at med school; this one, in particular, is designed to weed out the inept. Afterwards, you technically have your M.D., but then there's a series of internships and postgraduate training... And then there's also the additional training that you get if you decide to specialize in something.

So @Christopher Robin the hostility is kind of warranted, considering that it's a virgin NP from a diploma against the chad M.D. who spent a decade in medical training.
 
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Are DNP equal to PA's?
From my understanding, DNP or Doctorate of Nursing Practice, are higher on the scale than PAs, but without the shadowing hours. They are Doctors in name only, I'd honestly trust a Doctor of Philosophy more than your average DNP holder. The programme is more similar to some form of masters degree than a PhD.

This info found by someone from reddit shows just how weird the courses are

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"No clinical experience needed". Just look at the classes you take in one of the programmes,

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You take one Biostats class and the rest is waffle.


NP is just one of the names that these things come under, there are many different 2-3 letter jumbles that nurses can throw at you, they all basically sum up to "I'm not actually a Doctor" however.
 
There's potential here on both sides of the arguments, because r/residency is a seething cauldron of NP resentment (they're the junior docs getting paid $30k and screamed at by attendings while NPs take cute snaps).

Are DNP equal to PA's?
No. PA's get more practice hours before they're set free on the workforce.

NP education used to assume (back in the 80's) that all applicants for NP school would have 5-10 years of actual bedside nursing experience in lieu of extensive "residency" hours. Now NP schools will take fresh 22-year-olds who have never wiped an ass or set foot in an ER, make them find their own preceptor for 600 hours of work experience, and throw them out into the world to give fillers at cosmetic boutiques. If you can't do, teach... If you don't like bedside nursing, go to NP school.
 
This shit is the reason I refuse to go to the local hospital. It's full of nurses who think they know more than the doctors. I knew a guy who went in for a work injury. The doctor prescribed him medication. When the nurse came in to give it to him she straight up told him she was giving him a different medication because she didn't like what the doctor had prescribed. Most of them are twenty something single moms who think also being a nurse makes them gods gift to the world. Their ego and entitlement is amazing to see. Not to even mention how many have gotten fired for stealing pain meds from patients.
 
When I went to a store to buy prescription glasses this one lady (she was the receptionist but she was dressed like a nurse, possibly had some nurse training idk) wouldnt shut up about how she disagreed with the doctor (he said it was tired eyesight but she insisted it was miopia) and how she had seen so many cases, it was always miopia. It wasn't.

I've heard a nurse cracking on doctors too, how they have "really high grades" but no "people skills" like nurses do. Lol. She also liked to laugh at young women whose lives were destroyed by stds, the creepy old cow.

Interesting thread. Is the nurse vs doctor thing like the psychologists vs psychiatrists? I'd imagine so.
 
In the clerical side of the field NPs are constantly battling with people who actually bill out the stuff / audit their work due to an unprecedented level of incompetence on their part. They are almost entirely unable to properly describe an issue or why they need to proceed a certain way and almost certainly fail to meet the documentation standards insurance companies require to be able to charge for illnesses. They do not have the same experience as a doctor and are only generally familiar with their assigned specialty fields.

Was in the ER a month ago and had an NP insist that I was going to need surgery for a muscle tear that will be resolved with physical therapy and strength training....because the Ortho Specialist has no clue about these kinds of injuries apparently no really just trust me bro you'll need surgery.

And they absolutely think they're just as good as a doctor due to some faggot ego battle healthcare workers have to all feel like they're valid heroes. Thank god in the surgical fields surgical assistants don't pretend they're as capable as the actual surgeons. They know their role and stay in their lane.
 
I've had bad nurses and bad doctors.

Bad Nurse is a cunt who thinks they know it all and talks shit about everyone else in the hospital.
And a bad Doctor is a cunt who is thinking about squeezing every scent out of your insurance. I've had way too much pain med prescribed once and I was looking at it realizing it was a ridiculous amount and this is why people get addicted to the stuff.


Never had an NP , I can only imagine it's the worst of both sides.
 
Here in Canada, Nurse Practitioners were trained at least as far back as the 1970s to provide care in rural and remote areas, Indigenous communities etc. where there is a lack of physicians. They provided (and still do provide) important services like checkups, immunizations, health teaching...

The thing is, most NP's want to practice safely within their scope, under the supervision of a physician. Unfortunately there's also the overconfident, don't-know-what-they-don't-know NP's who think they're equally qualified as a physician who's completed a 7 year residency program.
 
Here in Canada, Nurse Practitioners were trained at least as far back as the 1970s to provide care in rural and remote areas, Indigenous communities etc. where there is a lack of physicians. They provided (and still do provide) important services like checkups, immunizations, health teaching...

The thing is, most NP's want to practice safely within their scope, under the supervision of a physician. Unfortunately there's also the overconfident, don't-know-what-they-don't-know NP's who think they're equally qualified as a physician who's completed a 7 year residency program.
I've worked with several NPs, PAs, and MDs over the years and you have bad apples in every area. Honestly, I've had more issues with MDs than with NPs or PAs.

This shit is the reason I refuse to go to the local hospital. It's full of nurses who think they know more than the doctors. I knew a guy who went in for a work injury. The doctor prescribed him medication. When the nurse came in to give it to him she straight up told him she was giving him a different medication because she didn't like what the doctor had prescribed. Most of them are twenty something single moms who think also being a nurse makes them gods gift to the world. Their ego and entitlement is amazing to see. Not to even mention how many have gotten fired for stealing pain meds from patients.
A nurse giving a different medication other than what was ordered would be a prosecutable offense. That would be practicing medicine without a license.
 
This is a well deserved thread. I have some friends and family that were doctors and nurses and they’d tell me all sorts of stories about other nurses. I’ve also got to see some of the autism first hand.

From what I understand there is a demand for nurses but not enough openings so a lot of underqualified nutters get in when they shouldn’t. I also understand that there are different levels of nurse and that some can require a lot of extra education.
 
From my understanding, DNP or Doctorate of Nursing Practice, are higher on the scale than PAs, but without the shadowing hours. They are Doctors in name only, I'd honestly trust a Doctor of Philosophy more than your average DNP holder. The programme is more similar to some form of masters degree than a PhD.

This info found by someone from reddit shows just how weird the courses are

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"No clinical experience needed". Just look at the classes you take in one of the programmes,

View attachment 1887768
You take one Biostats class and the rest is waffle.


NP is just one of the names that these things come under, there are many different 2-3 letter jumbles that nurses can throw at you, they all basically sum up to "I'm not actually a Doctor" however.

I have an aunt who is an NP. She mainly works in the OR at a major hospital. She graduated nursing school in the 70s and has multiple medical and law degrees. As to why she never became a doctor, I have no idea. She certainly could have. I was under the assumption that an NP had to really put their nose to the grindstone to get there. I had no idea that diploma mills were farting out unqualified NPs. That's pretty horrifying when I thought the only path was hardcore study and experience.

I'm reminded of the medical assistants who do crazy overpriced trash level courses from a TV commercial of the back of a magazine. The kind where they goad you into taking out all these loans before you even get a chance to look at other forms of aid like grants.

I don't blame the people taking these courses. You are led to believe you will earn the qualifications and have a great career helping people.

Here in Canada, Nurse Practitioners were trained at least as far back as the 1970s to provide care in rural and remote areas, Indigenous communities etc. where there is a lack of physicians. They provided (and still do provide) important services like checkups, immunizations, health teaching...

The thing is, most NP's want to practice safely within their scope, under the supervision of a physician. Unfortunately there's also the overconfident, don't-know-what-they-don't-know NP's who think they're equally qualified as a physician who's completed a 7 year residency program.

NPs are needed in areas like that. Is the younger generation mainly worse? Because everyone wants a quick path to success now and impatience leads to so many mistakes.
 
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