Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[LazarusOwenhart]

I feel like I would like Forgotten Realms bit more if they included the cooler shit. Give me my oriental adventures or arabian nights, or at least let me travel through the horrifying jungles of Not!Africa like Solomon Kane.

Zakhara and Chult are both Forgotten Realms locations based on a generic Arabian culture and a deep forbidding jungle respectively. It's all in there, it's just the writers prefer the Sword Coast and Icewind Dale.

 

[Corn Flakes]

Zakhara and Chult are both Forgotten Realms locations based on a generic Arabian culture and a deep forbidding jungle respectively. It's all in there, it's just the writers prefer the Sword Coast and Icewind Dale.

It's also safer these days.

 

[Mr. Manchester]

The only value these three races have is as a shitpost

That would explain why I like them...
I'm probably also looking back on them with rose colored glasses, all of those things were probably more entertaining when I was a teenager.

On the topic of dragonlance, is there a way to run the original modules without forcing the players into premade characters or putting them on a railroad?

Different characters would be easy enough but they might be kind of rough to run without it being a railroad. I think you would have to make a lot of changes to the story, add a little breathing room for the party. I'm sure with a little effort you could pull it off.

 

[Adamska]

That would explain why I like-

And that's all I have to say about that.

Yes, by being a writer yourself and redoing 50% of the content.

Pretty much. You can choose to just have them make characters, but you need some flexibility since even the best modules still have times where your party will go off-rail.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

I can see what the writers were trying to do with kender, but by all that is holy they fucked it up bad.

I would have written them as curious, but lacking the 'no sense of fear or self preservation' angle. Any race or critter that lacks self preservation had better reproduce like rabbits or they're not long for this world.

As far as the kleptomania: it would only apply to unattended items, period, and stuff that was clearly easy to carry. I'd also hardwire in the idea that it has to look interesting. Most kender would sooner carry around a collection of polyhedral dice over a bag of gemstones. Kender packs and pouches should resemble your office desk drawer: lots of random shit, some of which might be useful but probably isn't. Actively stealing from other people should be a no-no (after all, they're carrying it so it must be important).

As is, the kender seems specifically wired to cause not just intraparty conflict, but to repeatedly drag the party into issues because the kender can't keep his sticky fingers to himself.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I can see what the writers were trying to do with kender, but by all that is holy they fucked it up bad.

I would have written them as curious, but lacking the 'no sense of fear or self preservation' angle. Any race or critter that lacks self preservation had better reproduce like rabbits or they're not long for this world.

As far as the kleptomania: it would only apply to unattended items, period, and stuff that was clearly easy to carry. I'd also hardwire in the idea that it has to look interesting. Most kender would sooner carry around a collection of polyhedral dice over a bag of gemstones. Kender packs and pouches should resemble your office desk drawer: lots of random shit, some of which might be useful but probably isn't. Actively stealing from other people should be a no-no (after all, they're carrying it so it must be important).

As is, the kender seems specifically wired to cause not just intraparty conflict, but to repeatedly drag the party into issues because the kender can't keep his sticky fingers to himself.

See, that's how a friend of mine was playing his Halfling rogue, although he didn't mention Kender at all. Picking up random bits and bobs left unattended just because they looked "neat!" (and no, she didn't pickpocket anyone, she was Chaotic Good and called herself an "adventurer" instead of a thief), being led around by her curiosity, laughing at or being excited at the prospect of danger. But the way my friend was playing her made that girl actually a fun character to play off of, and the GM often made it so the trouble she got into ended up being useful in the long run. We picked up a lot of clues for puzzles and mysteries going off track to rescue the rogue.

I absolutely believe this concept can be done very well, since I've seen it at work. But man, that description @Spooky Bones posted is just a goddamn nightmare. Doubly so if played by your average "im chaotic neutral lolsorandom!!1!" jagoff.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

See, that's how a friend of mine was playing his Halfling rogue, although he didn't mention Kender at all. Picking up random bits and bobs left unattended just because they looked "neat!" (and no, she didn't pickpocket anyone, she was Chaotic Good and called herself an "adventurer" instead of a thief), being led around by her curiosity, laughing at or being excited at the prospect of danger. But the way my friend was playing her made that girl actually a fun character to play off of, and the GM often made it so the trouble she got into ended up being useful in the long run. We picked up a lot of clues for puzzles and mysteries going off track to rescue the rogue.

I absolutely believe this concept can be done very well, since I've seen it at work. But man, that description @Spooky Bones posted is just a goddamn nightmare. Doubly so if played by your average "im chaotic neutral lolsorandom!!1!" jagoff.

Yup. That was the fluff writeup for 3E, I believe. But even the 2E Player's Guide to the Dragonlance Campaign had mostly the same text.

It's like playing a paladin. You need a good player to not turn it into a mess.

 

[Adamska]

See, that's how a friend of mine was playing his Halfling rogue, although he didn't mention Kender at all. Picking up random bits and bobs left unattended just because they looked "neat!" (and no, she didn't pickpocket anyone, she was Chaotic Good and called herself an "adventurer" instead of a thief), being led around by her curiosity, laughing at or being excited at the prospect of danger. But the way my friend was playing her made that girl actually a fun character to play off of, and the GM often made it so the trouble she got into ended up being useful in the long run. We picked up a lot of clues for puzzles and mysteries going off track to rescue the rogue.

I absolutely believe this concept can be done very well, since I've seen it at work. But man, that description @Spooky Bones posted is just a goddamn nightmare. Doubly so if played by your average "im chaotic neutral lolsorandom!!1!" jagoff.

The one time I ever used a Kender for anything I had to change them up. In mine, their tendency to thieve is due to their understanding of items; to them, if the person is dead, then the item has no owner and so can be taken. They as a result often get in trouble for looting graves due to it. Not out of greed, but because they also tend to get easily fascinated with specific shinies. They also tend to be a bit scatterbrained too.

Kender as written are a hell no.

 

[Jet Fuel Johnny]

Everyone who wanted to play a Kender was always an asshole who often said stupid shit like "A good DM can make sure there's a place for every kind of character" right before they ruined the entire adventure, fucked over the party, then said "You can't attack my character, I'm not being an asshole, they're cute and everyone loves them and I'm just playing in character."

A Kender was a good metric for whether or not to yeet a player into the front yard and sick your dog on them.

 

[ZMOT]

As far as the kleptomania: it would only apply to unattended items, period, and stuff that was clearly easy to carry. I'd also hardwire in the idea that it has to look interesting. Most kender would sooner carry around a collection of polyhedral dice over a bag of gemstones. Kender packs and pouches should resemble your office desk drawer: lots of random shit, some of which might be useful but probably isn't. Actively stealing from other people should be a no-no (after all, they're carrying it so it must be important).

only going by the novels, the main issue always was they don't consider it stealing (or something, it's been a while). basically they see something neat, grab it to take a look at it, then their ADHD kicks in and they pocket it because they need their hands free to grab the next shiny bit. they would definitely give it back and even plan to, but their mushbrain made them forget they even pocketed it. and if they find it in their bag again they can't remember where they got it - I can see why they wrote it that way, it's like a soft deus ex machina or twist when the kender suddenly pulls the mcguffin out of his pocket and everybody goes "oh you!". but I can also see that easily rubbing people the wrong way, especially when overused or done wrong.
the fear thing is similar, they get so distracted and tunnel vision they don't think about the danger at that moment. I mean, to fear something you first need to acknowledge there is something to fear.
not the worst traits, but definitely easy to abuse if you want to.

they're basically magpies: the race, if you're familiar with that (I think in asia it's a weasel or something stealing your shit).

 

[Anonymus Fluhre]

So kind of like GW's "modern" setting for 40k where it's basically Doom in the 1990s. Chainsaw Warrior it's called, a strange one man game where you play against the box.

Or their minis game Dark Future.

GW also did the miniatures for Judge Dredd back in the 80s and probably some of their best work back than that people forget about.

On the topic of dragonlance, is there a way to run the original modules without forcing the players into premade characters or putting them on a railroad?

Go the Raistlin route where you go back in time just before or long before the Cataclysm. Just be sure to check bestiaries so you know which monsters you can use back than. Then just change up some towns names and events if they need to be done after the Cataclysm.

 

[The Rockafire Explosion]

Kender being gypsies is way more plausible than orcs being black people and yet no one is making that complaint.

Wokeists are too busy ree-ing over Gully Dwarves being shit-eating retards to take note of this. It also helps the Vistani in Curse of Strahd are literal gypsy tropes with the serial numbers filed off, so they can freak out about them instead.

Everyone who wanted to play a Kender was always an asshole who often said stupid shit like "A good DM can make sure there's a place for every kind of character" right before they ruined the entire adventure, fucked over the party, then said "You can't attack my character, I'm not being an asshole, they're cute and everyone loves them and I'm just playing in character."

A Kender was a good metric for whether or not to yeet a player into the front yard and sick your dog on them.

The type of people who want to play kender as written are the assholes who want to play fishmalks in Vampire, and I always go out of the way to kill them as painfully as possible whether GM or player, because fuck those guys.

 

[Judge Dredd]

I have an unreasonably strong dislike for Eberron. I used to really like steampunk, but then Eberron came out and everybody started adding steampunk to everything. It is nice that there's so much space for adventuring (that's what happens when the setting is relatively new and vague), but all the "unique" shit that came out of it and infected the other settings can go fuck right off.

I went the opposite way. I had a hatred for steampunk, but grew fond of Eberron. I think where Eberron tech works is that it's a logical extension of magic (using lightning elementals to power things, air elementals for airships). It avoids the usual cliches of welding goggles and gluing gears on everything modern to claim it's valid.

It also allows me to put noir, horror, and adventure stuff into my DnD game without anyone noticing, like having a fistfight on the top of a speeding train during a rain storm, or a fog covered town full of weird mutants and strange anomalies. Can't do that in regular fantasy, and no one will play a 1940s game or Silent Hill game, but say you're playing Eberron and suddenly people are on board.

As for the infection, I assume you mean warforged and artificer? There's some rules I like that were ported in the recent Cauldron of Everything. No one gives a shit about shifters, and I struggle to think what else made the jump.

Or their minis game Dark Future

I hear of Dark Future from time to time, though that's mainly because there aren't any good car combat games that are still in print.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

Eberron is a setting that tends to shift the whole focus away from generic fantasy.

Come to think of it, Eberron would make a much better setting for Savage Worlds than PF would.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I went the opposite way. I had a hatred for steampunk, but grew fond of Eberron. I think where Eberron tech works is that it's a logical extension of magic (using lightning elementals to power things, air elementals for airships). It avoids the usual cliches of welding goggles and gluing gears on everything modern to claim it's valid.

I don't like it when it's done like that because it feels too much like showing how the sausage is made. I prefer settings where magic still has some mystery and awe to it. When it turns into technology by any other name and it gets too entrenched in how the world works, I tend to lose interest. The way Eberron does things also goes against my personal preference for mad science/steampunk: it's not supposed to be magical. It's meant to be mortal ingenuity coming up with ways to do amazing things without magic. When you go into magitech like that it starts feeling like World of Warcraft's Gnomes and no one wants that.

It's all personal preference, of course.

It also allows me to put noir, horror, and adventure stuff into my DnD game without anyone noticing, like having a fistfight on the top of a speeding train during a rain storm, or a fog covered town full of weird mutants and strange anomalies. Can't do that in regular fantasy, and no one will play a 1940s game or Silent Hill game, but say you're playing Eberron and suddenly people are on board.

Maybe I'm a bit spoiled since my GM doesn't do regular fantasy. The dark fantasy/late modern era setting he runs (swords and light/medium armor alongside single-shot guns, plenty of long coats, corsets and Nice Hats) gives us plenty of space for that sort of thing, and we still go into goblin hovels to save the farmer's daughter in-between tracking down vampires infiltrated in the Church and preventing Dr. Frankenstein-wannabees from creating unholy abominations in a lab. Of course, the GM has been working on that setting for many years now so there's a lot of content, and we do line up on most of our thematic preferences so it's a great deal for me, but we did have the occasional new player who ended up feeling a bit lost at first.

As for the infection, I assume you mean warforged and artificer? There's some rules I like that were ported in the recent Cauldron of Everything. No one gives a shit about shifters, and I struggle to think what else made the jump.

Although I admit I'm supremely indifferent towards Warforged, and Artificer being implemented into 5e instead of Warlord makes me so salty I turn steaks into jerky from fifteen feet away, I wasn't talking about rules specifically. More the themes and the whole "magic as technology" schtick which I saw being overused to hell back when Eberron was being pushed hard as the new "cool" setting. It has gone down substantially since, which I'm thankful for. Now it's been gradually replaced by dangerhair and everybody being ambiguously brown.

 

[Anonymus Fluhre]

Eberron is a setting that tends to shift the whole focus away from generic fantasy.

Come to think of it, Eberron would make a much better setting for Savage Worlds than PF would.

Pathfinder also has two Steampunk settings. Three of you take into consider Age of Electrotech being part of it.

 

[Judge Dredd]

I don't like it when it's done like that because it feels too much like showing how the sausage is made.

For me, it's the opposite. They have these magical powers, but don't explore the logical extensions of that. To give a simple example. What does the existence of shape shifters, disguise magic, teleportation, and invisibility mean when it comes to protecting powerful people or defending valuables? The usual RPG answer is shut up don't ask questions. For that to work, it has to be so rare that most people won't see a spell cast in their lifetime, but while that works in Lord of the Rings, it doesn't work in D&D for gameplay reasons.

Maybe I'm a bit spoiled since my GM doesn't do regular fantasy. The dark fantasy/late modern era setting he runs (swords and light/medium armor alongside single-shot guns, plenty of long coats, corsets and Nice Hats) gives us plenty of space for that sort of thing, and we still go into goblin hovels to save the farmer's daughter in-between tracking down vampires infiltrated in the Church and preventing Dr. Frankenstein-wannabees from creating unholy abominations in a lab.

I've ran other settings. Rippers (a victorian era monster hunting setting where you graft bits of monsters onto yourself to gain their powers, and all the famous fictional figures of the time were real) was great on paper, but people got bored. That might be my fault, but I didn't know at the time is that players will say they want RP heavy social conflict, investigations, and inter faction politics, but in practice they want to punch monsters in the face and get loot.

I could rant for pages, but the short version is that it's difficult to get people to play anything other than D&D or PathFinder. Even grognards who do nothing but complain about the latest edition won't play anything else. People seem to like it when the game is running, but getting them over that first hurdle is a pain.

It's a shame because there's lots of games I want run. If I want to run Cyberpunk 2020 or Interface Zero, people will complain and want to play Shadow Run, which I don't like because the fantasy elements overshadow the cyberpunk stuff.

 

[Corn Flakes]

For me, it's the opposite. They have these magical powers, but don't explore the logical extensions of that. To give a simple example. What does the existence of shape shifters, disguise magic, teleportation, and invisibility mean when it comes to protecting powerful people or defending valuables? The usual RPG answer is shut up don't ask questions. For that to work, it either has to be so rare that most people won't see a spell cast in their lifetime, but while that works in Lord of the Rings, it doesn't work in D&D for gameplay reasons.

See, that's exactly what cheeses me off about Forgotten Realms. I'm fan of settings where any character above level 3 is a rarity, destined to greatness. If every village has a party of level 5 adventurers (Tom the fighter, Dick the Wizard, and Harry the Cleric) whose full-time job is keeping the town safe from kobolds, and if every inn has at least two level 10 characters chugging down beers with their +8 CON saves would say they could, the world starts feeling too high-powered to my tastes.

It's a matter of what tone you like in the setting. If you're into high magic and fireballs at every corner, godspeed to you. Me? I like any Wizard above level 5 to be seen with awe and suspicion. I want the Scout Rogue with a +7 attack bonus to look like William Tell compared to the commoners when he joins the local archery tournament for some quick coin. I like my magical items to be rare and purposeful (and I like when the GM asks what build you're going for so they know what to drop and where). I like my villains and my monsters to be powerful and dangerous so the people they are terrorizing can't just put up a bounty on their head and wait for a high-level NPC party to come around.

The common folk, even the nobility and kings, though? 99.9% of the world? Level 1-3. Sometimes a 5 if you have someone who's got a lot of experience. A level 14 Wizard would be either a villain, mad with power, or the archmage serving one of the world's most powerful kings and infusing even her king with fear of her unearthly powers. A level 14 Fighter is basically Beowulf, someone whose exploits are already the stuff of legends. You should be able to count the number of level 20 characters in the entire world in one or two hands, and that's including the player characters if they reach that far.

It's actually pretty close to the concept of tiers of play you see on the PHB. I just like for there to be fewer people on each rung of the ladder, so the ones that are there do feel more special.

Spoiler: Screencap, spoilered for space

Again, it's all personal preference. I've gotten into trouble before from people thinking I'm some kind of snob. No, I'll play high-powered settings and campaigns and enjoy myself just fine. It's just that peak fun for me is closer to the ground than to the heavens. I'd rather Elminster and Mordenkainen be long dead so no one can ask the question "hey, why didn't X, Y and Z defeat the Dark Lord back when he was just a normal human despot?".

I've ran other settings. Rippers (a victorian era monster hunting setting where you graft bits of monsters onto yourself to gain their powers, and all the famous fictional figures of the time were real) was great on paper, but people got bored. That might be my fault, but I didn't know at the time is that players will say they want RP heavy social conflict, investigations, and inter faction politics, but in practice they want to punch monsters in the face and get loot.

I could rant for pages, but the short version is that it's difficult to get people to play anything other than D&D or PathFinder. Even grognards who do nothing but complain about the latest edition won't play anything else. People seem to like it when the game is running, but getting them over that first hurdle is a pain.

It's a shame because there's lots of games I want run. If I want to run Cyberpunk 2020 or Interface Zero, people will complain and want to play Shadow Run, which I don't like because the fantasy elements overshadow the cyberpunk stuff.

I should clarify that all I'm talking about here refers to D&D. Besides a bit of Storyteller here and there, I haven't been able to play any other games in a very long time. Although to be fair, I'm not really interested in learning new systems anymore. Back when I was still in college and had time for this sort of stuff I'd buy and learn two systems a month if I had the chance. These days? I just want to be able to play at all, without having to go through an entire book just to learn that the character concept I want to play is not viable.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

View attachment 1912823

Thankfully, I've never really played an RPG where Kender are a thing, however after seeing that for the first time, I vowed that my stock reaction to Kenders would be to just shank them the moment their sticky fingers come anywhere near my stuff.
"Teehee, you know, I'm just a quirky ADHD abomination that doesn't understand the concept of personal belongings, I didn't mean to steal something oh no... I just borrowed it without asking, maybe I'll give it back if you get me something interesting in return :3" Fast forward by about 10 minutes and the carcass of that pest is hitting the ground in front of the local guard baracks, so I can report the attempted robbery and cash my reward for removing it.

"You can't attack my character, I'm not being an asshole, they're cute and everyone loves them and I'm just playing in character."

Upon hearing these words, one should indeed not waste any time by attacking the Kender and instead punch the player straight in the kisser.

 

[Adamska]

Upon hearing these words, one should indeed not waste any time by attacking the Kender and instead punch the player straight in the kisser.

And now you know why Kender are that hated and should never be defended. And no, anything they can be excused for is replacable with halflings.

Wanting to play one is the largest red flag I can think of.