This will be the last I talk about my situation on this thread, since I would rather not shit it up with more of my personal issues, but I will consider your advice, and share what I've been told with his family and find a way to talk to him about it. I'm new to commenting on the farms, so I really don't know how spoilers/quoting works, but in essence:
- SRS/HRT and the future? That's the problem, he doesn't really have a future. This is the first time he has done something so compulsive in his life. For fucks sake he took a week to pick out what gauge guitar strings he wanted for his Fender. This is the first time he's rushed towards doing something with little to no plans. His general plans are to go on HRT, get SRS, and hopefully end up a pretty girl by the end of it to get happy. I have no doubt it's AGP, since every icon he has is a "cute anime girl uwu", but I don't think he has any longterm plans.
Just clarifying a little bit about the future thing, I mean very much what he imagines for the future. There is absolutely something, nobody except maybe the severely depressed have no thoughts about the future. Think like a set of scenarios that he plays in his head, scenarios that he will probably think as possibilities that will be unlocked when he 'finally' gets to be his 'true-self.'
I don't know whether he would share his private fantasy-world, but it's the best and probably only thing you're likely to get him to see everything differently. That sense he gets of "right"-ness and "natural"-ness is his way of articulating the positive affective disposition he has towards them. And, if you can get him to see that as illusory - that he could have something similar as a man - even if it's just one his 'plans' or 'dreams' or whatever then he might start questioning himself more deeply.
I'd also concur on the AGP, the sextoy collection and the maid's outfit is pretty dispositive. It also makes things harder, because it's one less thing that he'd be willing to share with you.
This will be the last I talk about my situation on this thread, since I would rather not shit it up with more of my personal issues, but I will consider your advice, and share what I've been told with his family and find a way to talk to him about it. I'm new to commenting on the farms, so I really don't know how spoilers/quoting works, but in essence:
- SRS/HRT and the future? That's the problem, he doesn't really have a future. This is the first time he has done something so compulsive in his life. For fucks sake he took a week to pick out what gauge guitar strings he wanted for his Fender. This is the first time he's rushed towards doing something with little to no plans. His general plans are to go on HRT, get SRS, and hopefully end up a pretty girl by the end of it to get happy. I have no doubt it's AGP, since every icon he has is a "cute anime girl uwu", but I don't think he has any longterm plans.
- Situations that make him happy: Again, the issue is that no hobby we had really makes him happy anymore. He has a breakdown and "dysphoria" about his massive man hands when we play guitar together, we can't go to car meets because he gets so many stares and doesn't feel "comfortable" around all the guys, playing games is okay for a while, but the whole point of us playing games it to chat while we play, but all our conversations fizzle out. Going out into public and dicking around at a guitar store, going to music shops, or even the local bookstore isn't really an option because we always end up cutting our trip into town short, since someone always clocks him or misgenders him. Literally I drove us out into town to check out a new manga he wanted to read (and I was going to pick up a few books for my college), and we literally walked in, got a few feet in when he pulled me aside and begged to go back home, saying that the group of teenage girls were eyeing him funny. He's literally become a new person. His sisters have tried to take them to their book club and out shopping with their friends, but none of them feel comfortable around him (or so they say).
- Not Crossdressing: Man of fucking man I have tried, I have tried so hard. Putting it in the nicest way possible, putting it bluntly, doing a mix of both, nothing. He always dresses femininely, hell, the only male clothes I can specially remember him having still is a motorcycle jacket he got for his 18th birthday and a hoodie I bought him for chrismas a year ago. He literally dumped many hundreds into a new wardrobe, clothes, shoes, underwear.... bras... (fuck that last one really hurt to type).
That's why I am thinking it's mental illness, he has no clear future, he just says being a woman feels "right", "natural", and "always how I was meant to be".
No Zack, no. You were "never meant" to be a girl. You want to play religion and say god put a woman in a man's body? Well god is a cruel fucking bastard then, because he put you in a body that most men would kill to be in. 6'3, fit as a fucking mule, always had a cool 5 o'clock shadow, and the charm that made me look up to you in so many ways. Drop the shit man, you were meant to be a guy, a man's man. Even if god put Hailey inside you, she should just suck it up, and use the balls god gave her to be a man and tough it out like the rest of us. If I wanted all this drama and to be protecting a skinny man in a dress with lipstick and a stubble I'd be working as a Pulse Nightclub bouncer.
Anyways, I just don't fucking know. I joined KF because I loved Josh's comfy streams and wanted to browse some lolcows. Sorry for shitting up this thread with my issues and venting like a little baby, it's the last I'll mention of it. I'll try to talk him out, Zack deserves one last attempt, one genuine attempt with all his family there (I'd say friends, but I'll be blunt I'm the last one he has), and try to get him back. If not, then I know for certain I don't want Hailey as my best friend, no one replaces Zack.
You think?? Trooning out IS a symptom of severe mental illness. No sane person wants to change their sex & multilate their genitals
Your friend is fucked, Whatever mental illness he has will never be cured because troon ideology brainwashed him so he won't seek help for his actual problems. It's over and the sooner you accept it the better. You need to get away from him asap. That's the only thing you can do to protect yourself because mental illness + troonery is a recipe for disaster.
LEAVE NOW. If you don't well then you are dumb as hell.
So her whole fanbase is dudes and you're upset that she's liking comments by... dudes. Dude. Is she pointedly ignoring female commenters? Maybe offer an example comparison of the slighted female comments vs the validated male comments? (I'm sorry that mommy ignored your contributions.)
This will be the last I talk about my situation on this thread, since I would rather not shit it up with more of my personal issues, but I will consider your advice, and share what I've been told with his family and find a way to talk to him about it. I'm new to commenting on the farms, so I really don't know how spoilers/quoting works, but in essence:
- SRS/HRT and the future? That's the problem, he doesn't really have a future. This is the first time he has done something so compulsive in his life. For fucks sake he took a week to pick out what gauge guitar strings he wanted for his Fender. This is the first time he's rushed towards doing something with little to no plans. His general plans are to go on HRT, get SRS, and hopefully end up a pretty girl by the end of it to get happy. I have no doubt it's AGP, since every icon he has is a "cute anime girl uwu", but I don't think he has any longterm plans.
- Situations that make him happy: Again, the issue is that no hobby we had really makes him happy anymore. He has a breakdown and "dysphoria" about his massive man hands when we play guitar together, we can't go to car meets because he gets so many stares and doesn't feel "comfortable" around all the guys, playing games is okay for a while, but the whole point of us playing games it to chat while we play, but all our conversations fizzle out. Going out into public and dicking around at a guitar store, going to music shops, or even the local bookstore isn't really an option because we always end up cutting our trip into town short, since someone always clocks him or misgenders him. Literally I drove us out into town to check out a new manga he wanted to read (and I was going to pick up a few books for my college), and we literally walked in, got a few feet in when he pulled me aside and begged to go back home, saying that the group of teenage girls were eyeing him funny. He's literally become a new person. His sisters have tried to take them to their book club and out shopping with their friends, but none of them feel comfortable around him (or so they say).
- Not Crossdressing: Man of fucking man I have tried, I have tried so hard. Putting it in the nicest way possible, putting it bluntly, doing a mix of both, nothing. He always dresses femininely, hell, the only male clothes I can specially remember him having still is a motorcycle jacket he got for his 18th birthday and a hoodie I bought him for chrismas a year ago. He literally dumped many hundreds into a new wardrobe, clothes, shoes, underwear.... bras... (fuck that last one really hurt to type).
That's why I am thinking it's mental illness, he has no clear future, he just says being a woman feels "right", "natural", and "always how I was meant to be".
No Zack, no. You were "never meant" to be a girl. You want to play religion and say god put a woman in a man's body? Well god is a cruel fucking bastard then, because he put you in a body that most men would kill to be in. 6'3, fit as a fucking mule, always had a cool 5 o'clock shadow, and the charm that made me look up to you in so many ways. Drop the shit man, you were meant to be a guy, a man's man. Even if god put Hailey inside you, she should just suck it up, and use the balls god gave her to be a man and tough it out like the rest of us. If I wanted all this drama and to be protecting a skinny man in a dress with lipstick and a stubble I'd be working as a Pulse Nightclub bouncer.
Anyways, I just don't fucking know. I joined KF because I loved Josh's comfy streams and wanted to browse some lolcows. Sorry for shitting up this thread with my issues and venting like a little baby, it's the last I'll mention of it. I'll try to talk him out, Zack deserves one last attempt, one genuine attempt with all his family there (I'd say friends, but I'll be blunt I'm the last one he has), and try to get him back. If not, then I know for certain I don't want Hailey as my best friend, no one replaces Zack.
Peace to you, I can't imagine what that's like. Ultimately in order to help someone they have to want to be helped, if they don't there's not much you can do. Father Brown's strategy is well-reasoned and could help, another thing I'd try is taking him on a trip to the wilderness or somewhere far from home in order to completely change his context. But I don't know how practical it'd be for you to do that.
Basically, fetishistic obsessions often result from people being stuck in a psychological cycle, and taking them away from familiar surroundings and routines can help them break out of that cycle. Especially if he's not talking to his discord friends. I've heard stories of people who started detransitioning during the lockdown because they were no longer going out and being seen and it made them realize their trans self-image was all in their head.
Somebody said to me that this "validates" people. Like how the fuck are toddlers supposed to validate a concept that they can't even understand like "gender identity"?!
So her whole fanbase is dudes and you're upset that she's liking comments by... dudes. Dude. Is she pointedly ignoring female commenters? Maybe offer an example comparison of the slighted female comments vs the validated male comments? (I'm sorry that mommy ignored your contributions.)
I agree. It's like getting mad at porn stars because their fans are like 80-95% men. At least this person is telling an actual subjective truth when facing an anslaught of red, hairy, inflamed girldick.
A lot of the 'sane' trannies consistently have that blindspot.
Buck Angel for example consistently reverts back to "there's nothing wrong with sex work!" and "I live as a male!"
Even Debbie Hayton slipped up and said "I transitioned my sex to female".
A while ago Keira Bell, noted detransitioner who sued Tavistock, admitted she uses the male bathroom "because I have male secondary sex characteristics" except even if she had a fleshpole im p sure you can't pee through it.
Then you have this absolutely delusional cunt who says "other troons have a Y chromosome, my chromosomes are royal!"
This will be the last I talk about my situation on this thread, since I would rather not shit it up with more of my personal issues, but I will consider your advice, and share what I've been told with his family and find a way to talk to him about it. I'm new to commenting on the farms, so I really don't know how spoilers/quoting works, but in essence:
- SRS/HRT and the future? That's the problem, he doesn't really have a future. This is the first time he has done something so compulsive in his life. For fucks sake he took a week to pick out what gauge guitar strings he wanted for his Fender. This is the first time he's rushed towards doing something with little to no plans. His general plans are to go on HRT, get SRS, and hopefully end up a pretty girl by the end of it to get happy. I have no doubt it's AGP, since every icon he has is a "cute anime girl uwu", but I don't think he has any longterm plans.
- Situations that make him happy: Again, the issue is that no hobby we had really makes him happy anymore. He has a breakdown and "dysphoria" about his massive man hands when we play guitar together, we can't go to car meets because he gets so many stares and doesn't feel "comfortable" around all the guys, playing games is okay for a while, but the whole point of us playing games it to chat while we play, but all our conversations fizzle out. Going out into public and dicking around at a guitar store, going to music shops, or even the local bookstore isn't really an option because we always end up cutting our trip into town short, since someone always clocks him or misgenders him. Literally I drove us out into town to check out a new manga he wanted to read (and I was going to pick up a few books for my college), and we literally walked in, got a few feet in when he pulled me aside and begged to go back home, saying that the group of teenage girls were eyeing him funny. He's literally become a new person. His sisters have tried to take them to their book club and out shopping with their friends, but none of them feel comfortable around him (or so they say).
- Not Crossdressing: Man of fucking man I have tried, I have tried so hard. Putting it in the nicest way possible, putting it bluntly, doing a mix of both, nothing. He always dresses femininely, hell, the only male clothes I can specially remember him having still is a motorcycle jacket he got for his 18th birthday and a hoodie I bought him for chrismas a year ago. He literally dumped many hundreds into a new wardrobe, clothes, shoes, underwear.... bras... (fuck that last one really hurt to type).
That's why I am thinking it's mental illness, he has no clear future, he just says being a woman feels "right", "natural", and "always how I was meant to be".
No Zack, no. You were "never meant" to be a girl. You want to play religion and say god put a woman in a man's body? Well god is a cruel fucking bastard then, because he put you in a body that most men would kill to be in. 6'3, fit as a fucking mule, always had a cool 5 o'clock shadow, and the charm that made me look up to you in so many ways. Drop the shit man, you were meant to be a guy, a man's man. Even if god put Hailey inside you, she should just suck it up, and use the balls god gave her to be a man and tough it out like the rest of us. If I wanted all this drama and to be protecting a skinny man in a dress with lipstick and a stubble I'd be working as a Pulse Nightclub bouncer.
Anyways, I just don't fucking know. I joined KF because I loved Josh's comfy streams and wanted to browse some lolcows. Sorry for shitting up this thread with my issues and venting like a little baby, it's the last I'll mention of it. I'll try to talk him out, Zack deserves one last attempt, one genuine attempt with all his family there (I'd say friends, but I'll be blunt I'm the last one he has), and try to get him back. If not, then I know for certain I don't want Hailey as my best friend, no one replaces Zack.
piggybacking off what everyone else said, if you decide that you want to try and get him out of this (and nobody would blame you for running away as fast as possible) treat it like any other mental health crisis. when you tackle it, don’t mention his gender, mention that he’s been spending a lot of time online and it’s unhealthy, that he’s been stressed lately, that he’s alienating people he loves, that he’s just not happy, and try to solve *those* issues with him, without bringing the trans stuff into it. if you can even just get him off discord for a while, it’ll go a long way
The YouTube trannies seem to have calmed down.
Stef Sanjati left YouTube.
Ash Hardell disappeared (possible regrets?)
Chase Ross only does toy reviews
Riley Dennis only does anime reviews
Did I forget any snowflake trannies?
I am going to go against everyone suggesting that you give up or cut ties or whatever else. I always believe that we have a duty of sorts to our friends; we should help them if we can. To this effect, I have some suggestions/advice that I hope might be of use to you.
Firstly, has he ever talked about what he wants to do in the future (beyond HRT or SRS)? Has he ever explained to you in any detail how he imagines his future as a 'woman'? Does he ever talk about, say, what being a 'woman' means etc. to him?
I think if you want to help him out of the hole that he's fallen into these are valuable for you to know and understand. For most - indeed probably all - troons, the ultimate driver and impetus to troon out, to embrace a cross-sex identity is really a set of internal fantasies and imaginings. 'Memories' of the future if you will, to him these are going to be extremely positively valenced; they feel 'good' in the simplest sense.
His affective disposition is why he is going to think or conclude that this is his 'authentic' self; it's what everyone's 'authentic' selves are, the person who we warmly imagine that we could be. The value in knowing what sort of things he day dreams or fantasizes about is that you could help him better appraise those imaginings.
For all of us, when we dream or even just desire something, we imagine it and from our affective disposition we interpret whether we want it or not. Our interpretations are inevitably not infallible. Firstly, because our imaginations may not comport with reality, but secondly because our interpretation of what it is within our imaginings it is that we feel positively disposed towards is fallible. All imaginings contain more than just the abstract object of supposed desire, they come in some context and if in our interpretations we fail to understand the impact of that context then we mistake the nature of our own desires.
In this case, your friendly imagines himself as a woman, but he can't imagine himself as a woman in some pure decontextualized sense as that makes no sense. He imagines himself doing things, being something in the world and so forth. Maybe, he projects himself into slice of life animes in a kind of modified sense, or thinks of himself as a beautiful girl that everyone fawns over or as in a bad-ass lesbian relationship. The key here is that it is not really being a 'woman' that makes him feel a positive affective disposition towards these things. It's the context, the effortless friendships, the attention and devotion etc., things that everyone is liable to desire.
His problem is in not recognizing that being a 'woman' is not central to why he enjoys those fantasies. Indeed, how could it be? There is nothing inherently good about being a woman nor is there any truth to ideas like innate 'gender identity' that would make it so. This is actually why you observe this huge disconnect between troons and normal people on the reality of 'gender identity' and on the supposed dreadfulness of being in a 'wrongly' sexed body. For us, ideas of being the opposite sex carry no affective charge. I think of myself as a woman and my thought is just: "So what?". The entire idea that one could feel a strong pull to a particular gender is just phenomenally mystifying and this is the reason.
The best advice is thus to get your friend to explain what appeals to him, what he imagines in the future and so forth, and to get him to do so as candidly as possible. As if you can understand what drives him then you can help him find a different interpretation of his desires. The goal is really to get him to re-interpret his fantasies to see being a 'woman' as not the core driver of his affective disposition, but rather just as a sort of vehicle. If he can see it as a vehicle, then he can also see that transitioning won't make him happy, because the other parts of his dreams - the parts that actually make him feel happy - don't follow as some natural logical consequence to transition, they're just 'possibilities' and quite likely not very realistic ones. Moreover, this could help him start to see a happy future self that was a man.
I don't know that any of this is really easy, and many of his fantasies are probably fairly explicit in nature, so I don't he'd tell you about those. It might also be difficult to get your friend to open up about the non-explicit stuff though, he might unconsciously intuit that his dreams are a bit silly. This will depend on your friend's personality I suppose and your ability to show sympathy in the right way for him.
The other thing I'd suggest is to try get him into situations that make him feel happy, particularly social situations. It is my experience that troon imaginings tend to be mostly social in nature, if you can give him something fun of a similar nature then it could help him as well. This might be impossible though, since you'd have to convince him not to cross-dress, therefore you'd need to try think up some excuse to convince him. Drugs/alcohol are good to make him less miserable in the process as he'll probably set very negative expectations as a kind of defense if he's not dressed up.
Yeh, Newgent is a little bit deranged, interesting only because of the inside perspective that she offers. Underappreciated at times how crazy a lot of FtMs are. They might not have MtF troons matched for antisocial behavior, but for simple insanity they can match them the whole way.
Hell, I'd say that straight women who troon out late are the craziest troon demographic and comfortably so.
FWIW, I think it doesn't really matter what you do once you've transitioned unless there are obvious objective benefits to detransitioning. So, althought Newgent is definitely nuts, it's probably the correct call to just stick it out anyways since life would probably be more difficult as an obviously masculinized woman. Something similar can be said for Keira Bell still using men's bathrooms. If you don't neurotically obsess about 'gender identity' then just doing whatever is easiest given the world as it exists is the obvious thing to do.
Hypersexualism => massively increased probability of developing some (many) form(s) of paraphilia. I think there's also an element of just sheer antisociality that extreme masculinization produces especially in conjunction with an at least slightly 'autistic' personality. So, a lot of these kind of guys have some basic disregard for laws, rules or norms of basically any kind. Hence, if they decide they want to do something utterly insane, then that's what they'll do, everyone else be damned. Relatedly, they tend to be hyper-competitive and are often regarded as dickheads of a sort.
I have a kind of (admittantly under-evidenced) theory that pre-2010 AGP-types were far more often highly masculine types for this reason whereas, now they are relatively less masculine autists and the like, who would never have had the chutzpah to even start thinking about trooning out. This can be combined with the fact that back then there was reduced access/exposure to more extreme types of porn, while other social drivers/influences were less present. So, you probably needed to have a more unchained sex drive.
Men like Martin 'Martine' Rothblatt, Bob 'Zoey' Tur or Eddie Izzard are all good examples.
The suggestions here, while well thought out and reasonable, are not the job for a friend. Asking these questions and getting this man to consider his answers is a job for a therapist.
And while we know the mental health industry is as pozzed as any to troonery these days, it might be worthwhile to suggest your friend see a therapist @Cold Brew — NOT for his troonery but under the guide of treating his depression and lack of motivation. Trooning out is a symptom. Addressing the issues that led to him trooning out might be what pulls him out of it.
I don't know if I'll get MATI for this but there's a big reason detransitioners are both sympathetic and annoying me a lot at the same time.
I understand their contradictory stance, Especially for ftms because it has a practical value as some changes are irreversible. But at the same time I see that transgenderism can be seen an ideology, and detransition is just a renouncing of that ideology. Perhaps, understand that you don't need to look a certain way to be man or a woman could be an ideal. Eventually I believe FtM will be easy to clock in general public anyway due to the growing amount of them. All they can do is keep lying to themselves and set up excuses to not face their issue head on.
The thing is, the problems with a lot of "sane" and regretting troons and many of detrooners now are probably because of their lack of self acceptance in the first place. While they can see that transitioning doesn't fix it... They still have that issues that are difficult to get addressed because trying to discuss or understand the underlying mental process of trannyism is a taboo in public sphere. Just as @remiem said, It's a big cope of their decisions, they may be able to speak out of their regret but truly accepting themselves? That's required mental fortitude that's difficult for everyone who's been through traumatic experiences. There's one big shame in my life that I still struggle to get over it, and while I am sympathetic of that... Because I kind of get what it feels like trying to block and not facing that trauma. This copium is tiring to live with.
There's one detrooner who came before most know that detransition is a thing, her username is Chaos Cat or something of that sense, I couldn't remember. And it just seem that after she made a few videos of her experiences where I feel like she's the one truly accepting of her bad decisions, and just disappeared from internet afterwards. She doesn't see herself as a victim.. but accepting that she fucked up once. and say things how that her voice and facial hair is female. It's "ok" to look like this. It's a bold admittance I don't see much from newer crop of detrooners, where instead they whine how much of a victim they are and everyone wronged them ... Except themselves. Keira Bell is a big example of this. But I do see the "lack of responsibility" and blaming others as a result of the lack of self acceptance and troon related narcissism.
There's also a detroon ex-mtf we talked about either here or GRS thread. He got a cock chop, then get a nonfunctional flesh tube and acts like it's a real penis...Man.. perhaps the kind of people who troon out in the first place are more concerned about how things look on the outside than the internal function of thing. And even if they regretted, they still see things shallowly?
Self-aware troon annoys me much more than truly loony ones. Simply because it seems like the get so close to the "real issue" but purposefully ignore it to uphold their fetish and illusion they made for themselves. Anne Lawrence has a trailing list of sexual assaults history. He works with Blanchard, and contrary to the public view of him, Blanchard actually advocate for people to troon out to live their fetish. And just deal with cognitive dissonance later.
Most detrans FTMs are nuts, and they don’t realize they still have the same thought patterns, only now applied to being detrans. Also, a complete lack of personal responsibility. If you listened to them you would think every woman who was a lesbian or a sexual assault victim born after 1989 trooned out. This is not true.
They still have the ‘I’m not like other girls’ mentality.
