Creative works you enjoyed until politics happened - "How politics made me hate Welcome to Nightvale and other things"

[Corn Flakes]

Maybe I’ve just been drinking the Sargon Kool-aid, but is "fascism" really an accurate description of the world in the Starshipt Troopers book/movie? Granted, I've still not read the book, but it seems the movie merely adopted a fascist Aesthetic™ for its propaganda videos and such, which is absent from the original book, and most viewers came to this conclusion based on that alone and something else about "WAR BAD".

The way I understand it is that while they may live a two-tiered system, it doesn't mean they treat the second class ("civilians") as subhuman. There's actually a lot of emphasis on muh freedoms, and in the parts of the book Sargon quotes, it says personal freedom greatly exceeds that of the present day – including for civilians. Military service and "citizenship" is just an optional thing that one can do to enter the ruling class, which the movie glosses over.

The writer of the movie famously hated the original book, and deliberately made its world look fascistic, which feels very late-2010s woke Hollywood. That being said though, the movie was also kinda dope in spite of it. But let's not pretend that Hollywood lefties have only been shoving their politics into places they don't belong for the last 5 years or so.

I'd argue there is still a difference, that difference being that when they did it back in 1997, we actually got a movie that was entertaining, regardless of whether you take its political message to heart. But in the last few years, entertainers have decided that they're no longer going to sweeten the pill for us, and that their left-wing politics (which they pretend are morals, which they pretend are wholesome) can be the entire selling point of a creative work.

Although having just typed that out, I've realised that we probably agree.

Oh, yeah. We're just agreeing from different directions here.

The movie has nothing to do with the original book besides a couple of names. The book presents a society that defies our current definitions of political systems. The movie was 100% meant to be a pastiche of militarism, fascism and fascist aesthetics, though. It was a parody of gung-ho war movies and propaganda, down to the very obvious implication that the Bug War was instigated by the humans and not the bugs.

The point is that it was deliberately made to be entertaining and it had real effort put into it (a lot of the special effects hold up to this day, particularly on the wide shots), even if it was transparently a reflection of the screenwriters' and the director's thoughts and ideals. After all, the Federation in the Starship Troopers movie is presented in a downright cartoonish "life is cheap" way, not far removed from what Verhoeven did with RoboCop's OCP. They hammer the absurdity of the situation home without sounding preachy. And, most importantly, they show it to the audience instead of just telling it to the audience. No one needs to say "oh my god! War is hell!" for the message to get through after the slaughter that is the first assault on Klendathu.

 

[knightlautrec]

It's so weird to compare contrast Reno 911 and Brooklyn 911. Both a diverse crew but Reno 911 is actually funny while Brooklyn sucks.

Reno911 is a gem we will never see the likes of again.

I still quote 'A superior white wine for the superior white race' whenever we drink white at my house. Followed up by '...I don't like your politics...but I will take your wine'.

And that's the thing. The KKK in Reno911 were dumb ass hicks who we could poke fun of for being ignorant dummies but it wasn't vitriolic or PUNCH A NAZI responses from the characters. It was a 'You're a real dumb dumb and you can believe your dumb ass thing but we will mess with you' like when someone changed their sign to the Ku Sux Klan.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Maybe I’ve just been drinking the Sargon Kool-aid, but is "fascism" really an accurate description of the world in the Starshipt Troopers book/movie? Granted, I've still not read the book, but it seems the movie merely adopted a fascist Aesthetic™ for its propaganda videos and such, which is absent from the original book, and most viewers came to this conclusion based on that alone and something else about "WAR BAD".

The way I understand it is that while they may live a two-tiered system, it doesn't mean they treat the second class ("civilians") as subhuman. There's actually a lot of emphasis on muh freedoms, and in the parts of the book Sargon quotes, it says personal freedom greatly exceeds that of the present day – including for civilians. Military service and "citizenship" is just an optional thing that one can do to enter the ruling class, which the movie glosses over.

The writer of the movie famously hated the original book, and deliberately made its world look fascistic, which feels very late-2010s woke Hollywood. That being said though, the movie was also kinda dope in spite of it. But let's not pretend that Hollywood lefties have only been shoving their politics into places they don't belong for the last 5 years or so.

I'd argue there is still a difference, that difference being that when they did it back in 1997, we actually got a movie that was entertaining, regardless of whether you take its political message to heart. But in the last few years, entertainers have decided that they're no longer going to sweeten the pill for us, and that their left-wing politics (which they pretend are morals, which they pretend are wholesome) can be the entire selling point of a creative work.

Although having just typed that out, I've realised that we probably agree.

Fasicsm is an undefined term that basically amount to "right wing bad". The funnier definitions trying to argue how it is different from socialism by appealing to emotions or just throwing problematic terms. As for the book, it's about an idealized meritocratic society that is built around removing the faults in modern day democracy, two prominent ones being:
1. Having an uninformed voter/selfish votee base - this is removed by only allowing people who had served the country (including non-combat jobs) to vote and be voted. This makes the ability to vote a cherised right by the former (so they will use it far better than those receiving it for free) and filters out the latter (since selfish people usually won't last mentally through their tour).
2. Having a populace destined for poverty and violence (ie, niggers) - this is removed with a zero tolerance towards youth who break rules and specifically using physical punishment. With the explained alternative to doing nothing resulting in the same populace eventually becoming criminals that hurt innocents, considering today's situation in the USA it's completely right.
Also the military itself is incredibly multi-cultural and celebrates techniques and cultures from multiple countries. Just about the complete opposite of the imagined "fascist army".
Of course being fiction, the book ignores the many ways that people will subvert the system or that the training itself is hard as balls considering you can't just move to a different position if you can't take it, but it still raises some good points.

I find the movie unwatchable after reading the book. It's quite literally like a monkey throwing its shit at an imagined threat, and it's a shame this will be the first things people think about when they hear the name.

 

[Dom Cruise]

The works of David Wong, I enjoyed his Cracked articles, I enjoyed the first two John Dies At The End books.

Then he went Woke and I could care less to read any more of his novels, including the third JDATE, I still would read a Cracked article of his every once in a blue moon but they sucked, it's ironic how the dude tried to be a moderating voice back when the battle was atheists vs Christians but when it became SJWs vs Anti-SJWs he picked a side and he would also talk about how Orwellian society was becoming before running interference for Big Brother, total sellout douchebag.

It's not surprising considering the second JDATE book was already very mildly proto-Woke, with a strawman "annoying nerd" character whom a female character wishes she could "slap him and slap him and slap him and slap him", you could sense the growing hostility towards nerds in 2012, there's also strawman right wing characters.

To go even further back he also once wrote a article shockingly defending the idea that video game violence could lead to real world violence at the height of controversy over GTA and Jack Thompson, so he was always proto-Woke it seems.

I really look back and cringe at how things played out with Cracked in general, what a great website it once was and what a steep nosedive it took, you could tell right away when the articles became propaganda, the sudden shift was obvious.

 

[Rakdos92]

cant play gta san andreas without realizing how half the songs are niggers seething about the "white establishment" keeping them down

I find their seething hilarious and believe that we should do anything in our power to continue keeping them down and in the slums.

 

[Billy Beer]

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but every piece of fiction is political. All writers have biases that unconsciously slip into their work, it's just that nowadays writers often intentionally interject their retarded beliefs into their work. Culture and cultural attitudes have also shifted significantly from the 2000s onward to the point trooned out and butch Lesbian Latina pedophile characters are normative. Some writers get off to the Right wing backlash but others are genuinely confused or frightened by it because these things are normal in their own echo chamber.

The problem is, IMO, that writers/creators in the past who had political leanings or bias, hid them in clever, funny writing or thought provoking ways.

Politics in shows was a feather used to tickle you and was designed to entertain. Now politics are a hammer that twatts you around the head and is designed to guilt trip.

 

[Wormy]

I saw Iron Maiden live in 2019 (before Burn Loot Murder conquered the world but well into the Woke Revolution) and I can't tell you how relieved I was that they didn't change any of the lyrics to "Run to the Hills" ("The only good injuns are tame"). Those guys never seemed to give a shit about politics, though.

That would have killed the point of the song anyway; the second half of the lyrics are supposed to come from white settlers eager to shoot indians.

 

[Mola Ram]

That would have killed the point of the song anyway; the second half of the lyrics are supposed to come from white settlers eager to shoot indians.

I'm actually surprised they performed it at all.

 

[Regenbogen]

I find their seething hilarious and believe that we should do anything in our power to continue keeping them down and in the slums.

Id be against it but considering their behavior theyll just cause enough problems to have history reset itself

 

[Newman's Lovechild]

Just for you, @DoubleD, all the way from 1980.

https://www.heinleinsociety.org/2013/02/rah-rah-r-a-h-by-spider-robinson/

 

[Smug Cat]

Most newer media from the west, after you start to see the patters things just become less fun. Not to mention when you know the author hates you, it just make it mutual.
Fortunately there is enough older and outside the west media that could last a dozen lifetimes.

Yeah I used to have a higher tolerance (not high, mind you, but higher) for this kind of shit, but I've honestly reached the point where almost any new media is completely unwatchable. I watch media for escapism, not to be repeatedly told how much the writer of whatever series hates me. I used to be able to roll my eyes at whatever errant reference to oranj man and just enjoy the rest of it, but my patience for it all has worn right through at this point. There are plenty of franchises and moviemakers and such that I used to at least enjoy enough to look forward to watching, but I'm completely disinterested in all of them now. These days all my entertainment is super old, save for the rare newer publication that is entirely devoid of wokeshit.

 

[Amber the Hedgehog]

I resently binged on YouTube videos about D&D and fantasy cliches but modern politics have really taken that genre over. Like the trope of "saving a slave girl by buying her" this is presented as a wrong choice, the correct thing to do is to getting rid of slavery entirely. The hero shouldn't peacefully save this one individual immediately but go and change the culture that allowed such thing to happen in a first place. I get that this is fantasy and doesn't have to follow real life exactly but what? Yes changing complicated economic and cultural institutions that you don't like are super easy and fast thing to do. Doesn't brake the immersion at all nor distract from the on going story that had little do with slavery until this.

Still the biggest loser has been fantasy races. Because we use the same word about groups of IRL humans, the talk about fantasy races also has to follow modern identity politics ideology. No longer can we have evil, neutral or good races. Having easily labeled fantasy bad guys is exactly like thinking that all blacks are violent. Actually you probably shouldn't make any race to have low IQ either or be considered genrally unattractive or have hard time talking or have any others limitation. Race should be only about looks and maybe some skills that are directly related to the looks like flying if you have wings, but mostly race means nothing. Seriously, push all that flavor out and don't have any expectations about fantasy races. Being scared of monsters is bigotry, because looking like something means nothing. You probably shouldn't have NPCs to have opinions about fantasy races unless that NPC is ment to evil, then it's fine that they dislike trolls or think high elves are hottest thing in multiverse. At the moment it's still fine to have cultures that encourage war or other bad behavior but even that is starting get considered to have unfortunate implications.

 

[UnsufficentBoobage]

Just for you, @DoubleD, all the way from 1980.

https://www.heinleinsociety.org/2013/02/rah-rah-r-a-h-by-spider-robinson/

Why are blandest authors possible always credited with "INVENTING SCIFI", or whatever genrez?

Also, why Heinlein had so much degenerate shit in the writing mentioned in article.. .

 

[Kurtis Trent]

Well, "ruined" is not the right word here, but I remember the woke sperging within the thinspo/pro-ana circles. 'Cause mental illness has to be diverse and inclusive too

 

[Corn Flakes]

Why are blandest authors possible always credited with "INVENTING SCIFI", or whatever genrez?

Also, why Heinlein had so much degenerate shit in the writing mentioned in article.. .

Let's just say Heinlein was one kinky boy and leave it at that. If he were alive today, he would definitely have a very active lolcow thread here.

 

[Troonologist PhD]

I resently binged on YouTube videos about D&D and fantasy cliches but modern politics have really taken that genre over. Like the trope of "saving a slave girl by buying her" this is presented as a wrong choice, the correct thing to do is to getting rid of slavery entirely. The hero shouldn't peacefully save this one individual immediately but go and change the culture that allowed such thing to happen in a first place. I get that this is fantasy and doesn't have to follow real life exactly but what? Yes changing complicated economic and cultural institutions that you don't like are super easy and fast thing to do. Doesn't brake the immersion at all nor distract from the on going story that had little do with slavery until this.

Still the biggest loser has been fantasy races. Because we use the same word about groups of IRL humans, the talk about fantasy races also has to follow modern identity politics ideology. No longer can we have evil, neutral or good races. Having easily labeled fantasy bad guys is exactly like thinking that all blacks are violent. Actually you probably shouldn't make any race to have low IQ either or be considered genrally unattractive or have hard time talking or have any others limitation. Race should be only about looks and maybe some skills that are directly related to the looks like flying if you have wings, but mostly race means nothing. Seriously, push all that flavor out and don't have any expectations about fantasy races. Being scared of monsters is bigotry, because looking like something means nothing. You probably shouldn't have NPCs to have opinions about fantasy races unless that NPC is ment to evil, then it's fine that they dislike trolls or think high elves are hottest thing in multiverse. At the moment it's still fine to have cultures that encourage war or other bad behavior but even that is starting get considered to have unfortunate implications.

This. White Wolf games in particular have insane Woketard writers and much of the Fandom is even worse. Though the good thing about tabletop gaming is that you can just throw out whatever you don't like and only play with sane people. War gaming is even better because Wokies aren't smart enough for it and are too lazy to do anything that requires a modicum of effort. It's largely why they've been so unsuccessful at infesting the Warhammer Fandom.

 

[Mola Ram]

This. White Wolf games in particular have insane Woketard writers and much of the Fandom is even worse. Though the good thing about tabletop gaming is that you can just throw out whatever you don't like and only play with sane people. War gaming is even better because Wokies aren't smart enough for it and are too lazy to do anything that requires a modicum of effort. It's largely why they've been so unsuccessful at infesting the Warhammer Fandom.

The funniest thing about White Wolf is that the 90s World of Darkness was woke before woke was even a thing, and now a huge chunk of those games are considered unacceptable by both the current fans and the people working on them.

 

[Flaming Insignias]

I resently binged on YouTube videos about D&D and fantasy cliches but modern politics have really taken that genre over. Like the trope of "saving a slave girl by buying her" this is presented as a wrong choice, the correct thing to do is to getting rid of slavery entirely. The hero shouldn't peacefully save this one individual immediately but go and change the culture that allowed such thing to happen in a first place. I get that this is fantasy and doesn't have to follow real life exactly but what? Yes changing complicated economic and cultural institutions that you don't like are super easy and fast thing to do. Doesn't brake the immersion at all nor distract from the on going story that had little do with slavery until this.

Still the biggest loser has been fantasy races. Because we use the same word about groups of IRL humans, the talk about fantasy races also has to follow modern identity politics ideology. No longer can we have evil, neutral or good races. Having easily labeled fantasy bad guys is exactly like thinking that all blacks are violent. Actually you probably shouldn't make any race to have low IQ either or be considered genrally unattractive or have hard time talking or have any others limitation. Race should be only about looks and maybe some skills that are directly related to the looks like flying if you have wings, but mostly race means nothing. Seriously, push all that flavor out and don't have any expectations about fantasy races. Being scared of monsters is bigotry, because looking like something means nothing. You probably shouldn't have NPCs to have opinions about fantasy races unless that NPC is ment to evil, then it's fine that they dislike trolls or think high elves are hottest thing in multiverse. At the moment it's still fine to have cultures that encourage war or other bad behavior but even that is starting get considered to have unfortunate implications.

That slavery thing was a riff at Shield Hero, wasn’t it? People flipped out a lot more than they should have because some anime featured a false rape accusation.

 

[Troonologist PhD]

The funniest thing about White Wolf is that the 90s World of Darkness was woke before woke was even a thing, and now a huge chunk of those games are considered unacceptable by both the current fans and the people working on them.

That's actually one of the things I like about them because of the reaction it induces in Current Year Woketards. That and their 90's reactionary leftism actually fit with what the World of Darkness is supposed to be. The Tzimisce were the token Q+'s and the second most evil of the clans. The literal Satanists were the most evil clan, so much so that every other vampire tries to exterminate them because they unleash Hell on earth. Current Year Wokeness lionizes Woke-ish vampires for the sake of the narrative when the whole point of vampires is that they're by far one of the most evil supernaturals and their version of human ideologies is twisted and evil.

 

[Someone in a Tree]

I think one of the most invaluable things one can do is not to follow any creative person they admire on Twitter. Just do everything you can to avoid observing the brain worms doing their work. In fact, just don’t use Twitter at all.