UK General Election 2019, Brexit, and all things Britbong politics - No loicense required to post here!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46188790

Agreement is finally in Number 10's grasp.

The text that's taken months of officials' blood, sweat and tears has been agreed, at least at a technical level.

Now a paper's being drafted to present to the Cabinet tomorrow ready for the government's hoped-for next step - political approval from Theresa May's team, even though many of them have deep reservations.

Remember in the last 24 hours some of them have been warning privately that what's on the table is just not acceptable, and will never get through Parliament. Some even believe the prime minister ought to walk away.

But the government machine is now cranking into action. With a text ready, their long-planned rollout can begin.
The BBC's chief political correspondent Vicki Young said some ministers had "deep concerns" about the shape of the likely agreement, which critics say could leave the UK trapped in a customs agreement with the EU.

She said they would have to decide whether they could support it, and if not, whether to resign from cabinet.

Leading Brexiteers have already condemned the draft agreement, Boris Johnson saying it would see the UK remain in the customs union and "large parts" of the single market.

He told the BBC it was "utterly unacceptable to anyone who believes in democracy". "Am I going to vote against it. The answer is yes," he added.

And Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said "given the shambolic nature of the negotiations, this is unlikely to be the good deal for the country".

'Failure to deliver'
Both the UK and EU want to schedule a special summit of European leaders at the end of November to sign off the reportedly 500 page withdrawal deal and the much shorter outline declaration of their future relationship.

Brussels has insisted it would only agree to put the wheels in motion for the summit if agreement can be reached on the issue of the Irish border.

Ambassadors from the remaining 27 EU states will meet in Brussels on Wednesday.

If a deal is agreed with the EU, Mrs May then needs to persuade her party - and the rest of Parliament - to support it in a key Commons vote.

Conservative Brexiteer Jacob Rees-Mogg said if details of the text reported by Irish broadcaster RTE were true, the UK would become a "vassal state" with Northern Ireland "being ruled from Dublin".

Such an agreement "failed to deliver on Brexit" and the cabinet should reject it, he told the BBC.

"I think what we know of this deal is deeply unsatisfactory," he said. "There seems to be growing opposition to these very poor proposals."

Meanwhile, following pressure from all sides of the Commons, ministers have agreed to provide MPs with a legal assessment of the implications for the UK of the Irish backstop and other controversial aspects of any deal.

Cabinet Office minister David Lidington said Attorney General Geoffrey Cox would make a statement to MPs and take questions ahead of the final vote on any Brexit deal.

MPs, he said, would get to see "a full reasoned position statement laying out the government's both political and also legal position on the proposed withdrawal agreement".

The Democratic Unionists' Westminster leader Nigel Dodds said he was pleased Parliament had "asserted its will" as it was imperative that all parties to the deal were clear in what way and for how long it would "legally bind" the UK.

Chequers minus it is. Whatever happened to no deal being better than a bad deal.

We should have been far more aggressive in negotiations with Brussels. They all but stated immediately after the referendum that they were going to bumrape us for having the temerity to leave, so we should have told them that unless and until they got serious, we'd basically go full on tax haven mode and steal all their big companies - and funnel money and support to Eurosceptics in Italy, Spain, Greece, Poland, and Hungary.

 

[Inquisitor_BadAss]

Amazing how in a few years two of the 3 main parties have self imploded. Remember in the early 2000s when the Lib Dems would get consistently 50 to 60 seats and weren't this complete laughing stock that demands to be taken seriously?

Yeah but then they jumped in bed with the conservatives and back peddled on all of there promises. That lost them the student and far left base which they massively relied on. Now they rely on a tiny vocal remainer voting block because labour soaked up the vote.

 

[CWCissey]

Any of you lot heard about this 'One Britain, One Nation Day' that's apparently this Friday?

Supposedly there's this song that kids are being told to sing that's been getting Twatter to foam at the mouth.

Government urges children to sing bizarre 'Strong Britain Great Nation' song

But it has been mocked for coming after many Scottish children go on their summer holidays.

www.metro.co.uk

The UK Government is encouraging school children across the country to sing a song celebrating ‘strong Britain, great nation’ this week.

The move is part of ‘One Britain One Nation Day’ on Friday, June 25 – but has been mocked for taking place after some Scottish schools have broken up for summer.

In a promotional video for the event, flag-waving children sing: ‘We are Britain and we have one dream, to unite all people in one great team.

‘Our nation survived through many storms and many wars.’

It continues: ‘We celebrate our differences with love in our hearts, united forever, never apart.

‘We all stand together with pride in our hearts.’

The song ends with children repeating the line ‘strong Britain, great nation.’

But people took to social media to criticise the timing of the message, noting that many school children in Scotland will not able to take part in a ‘One Britain, One Nation’ day because it has been organised during their holidays.

Others joked that the song sounded like something out of North Korea.

The Department for Education tweeted: ‘We’re encouraging schools across the UK to celebrate One Britain One Nation Day on 25 June, when children can learn about our shared values of tolerance, kindness, pride and respect.’

Encouraging youngsters to sing about ‘one nation’ may also raise eyebrows north of the border, where there are growing calls for a second independence referendum.

A Government tweet encouraging people to take part in One Britain One Nation day was mocked by many (Picture: Twitter/@educationgovuk)
But the event is also likely to win praise for its message of unity and celebrating multiculturalism and tolerance.

The event’s website says: ‘One Britain One Nation brings us together, not to focus on our differences but to celebrate the values we share: tolerance, kindness, pride, respect, and a tremendous desire to help others.

‘Today’s Britain boasts a wonderful array of cultures. It is our multicultural identity that makes Britain so unique.

‘Our diverse cultures are inextricably linked by the sole fact that we are British. It is this fact that has prompted OBON to reinforce and revive what collectively unites us.

‘OBON aims to give a new impetus for the creation of a harmonised society, to make Britain an international model of moral rectitude.’
----

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

Any of you lot heard about this 'One Britain, One Nation Day' that's apparently this Friday?

Supposedly there's this song that kids are being told to sing that's been getting Twatter to foam at the mouth.

Government urges children to sing bizarre 'Strong Britain Great Nation' song

But it has been mocked for coming after many Scottish children go on their summer holidays.

www.metro.co.uk

The UK Government is encouraging school children across the country to sing a song celebrating ‘strong Britain, great nation’ this week.

The move is part of ‘One Britain One Nation Day’ on Friday, June 25 – but has been mocked for taking place after some Scottish schools have broken up for summer.

In a promotional video for the event, flag-waving children sing: ‘We are Britain and we have one dream, to unite all people in one great team.

‘Our nation survived through many storms and many wars.’

It continues: ‘We celebrate our differences with love in our hearts, united forever, never apart.

‘We all stand together with pride in our hearts.’

The song ends with children repeating the line ‘strong Britain, great nation.’

But people took to social media to criticise the timing of the message, noting that many school children in Scotland will not able to take part in a ‘One Britain, One Nation’ day because it has been organised during their holidays.

Others joked that the song sounded like something out of North Korea.

The Department for Education tweeted: ‘We’re encouraging schools across the UK to celebrate One Britain One Nation Day on 25 June, when children can learn about our shared values of tolerance, kindness, pride and respect.’

Encouraging youngsters to sing about ‘one nation’ may also raise eyebrows north of the border, where there are growing calls for a second independence referendum.

A Government tweet encouraging people to take part in One Britain One Nation day was mocked by many (Picture: Twitter/@educationgovuk)
But the event is also likely to win praise for its message of unity and celebrating multiculturalism and tolerance.

The event’s website says: ‘One Britain One Nation brings us together, not to focus on our differences but to celebrate the values we share: tolerance, kindness, pride, respect, and a tremendous desire to help others.

‘Today’s Britain boasts a wonderful array of cultures. It is our multicultural identity that makes Britain so unique.

‘Our diverse cultures are inextricably linked by the sole fact that we are British. It is this fact that has prompted OBON to reinforce and revive what collectively unites us.

‘OBON aims to give a new impetus for the creation of a harmonised society, to make Britain an international model of moral rectitude.’
----

It'll get school children to unify working out ways to mock it. I'm all for it.

 

[Inquisitor_BadAss]

First i’ve heard of it but the last line of that song is

 

[Hoplixe]

iirc it was mainly used by schools in places like Bradford where there was a sizable population of minorities, it was meant to encourage the children to identify more as British rather than continue the trend of self-ghettoization that their families oft do.

 

[Inquisitor_BadAss]

iirc it was mainly used by schools in places like Bradford where there was a sizable population of minorities, it was meant to encourage the children to identify more as British rather than continue the trend of self-ghettoization that their families oft do.

I think the term is correct but it’s being used as a civic nationalism thing?

 

[Hoplixe]

I think the term is correct but it’s being used as a civic nationalism thing?

I would think so, which explains why the scots are angry about it; that's their shtick.

 

[Spunt]

I used to live not far from Chesham/Amersham and the whole place is full of the bottle-blonde crimson-taloned trophy wives of stockbrokers who drive drop-top Audis way too fast down country lanes on their way to £500 hair appointments. The only supermarkets are Waitrose and M&S, with the odd token Sainsburys for the au-pair. They are all natural Tories (apart from a few hippies around the Amersham Canal community who have always voted Lib Dem) but this is about HS2, because they've all paid stupid money for their country piles and don't want a railway spoiling the view their land value. The Lib Dems on a national level have consistently voted in favour of HS2, but have campaigned against it locally, because they are cynical assholes.

This kind of hypocrisy and unprincipled cynicism is a consistent Lib Dem thing, has been for decades. They opposed university tuition fees from when they were introduced in about 1998 up to and including their 2010 general election manifesto, basically because they used to have a stranglehold on the student vote and that policy was a good way of keeping it. When they entered the coalition government, they voted AGAINST a Labour amendment to abolish them, because they wanted to stay in power and suck up to the Tories. This directly led to their annihilation in 2015 as their core student base voted Labour, Green or just sat the election out.

Their entire schtick was that they could freely promise everything to everyone because they weren't going to get into government and get found out. It was a very short-sighted strategy in the end and nearly destroyed them completely in what was ironically supposed to be their finest hour. Nick Clegg, who on paper was the most successful Liberal leader since the 1920's, is as much of a figure of hate as Tony Blair is in Labour, and for similar reasons. It looks like they haven't learned their lesson at all, or they've gone back to that level of cynicism because they're again not going to have any national power for a very long time.

Ask anyone who has been into local political activism, for any party, who the worst people to deal with in grassroots campaigning are, and they will all agree that the Lib Dems are the worst. Lies, dirty tricks, astroturfing, libelling other candidates, you name it they do it and they are notorious for it, all while projecting the same friendly, reasonable and approachable image in the media. Considering that anybody in UK grassroots activism over the last 20 years has had to deal with the likes of the Greens, Corbynite Labour, UKIP and the Respect Coalition, they really have beaten tough competition to be the absolute worst.

 

[Weeb Slinger]

Any of you lot heard about this 'One Britain, One Nation Day' that's apparently this Friday?

Supposedly there's this song that kids are being told to sing that's been getting Twatter to foam at the mouth.

Back when I was in Junior school (ages 8-11) and people still travelled everywhere by horse and cart, there was a hymn that was sung pretty regularly during morning assemblies, titled 'Cross Over the Road'. The lyrics are based around the parable of The Good Samaritan. The chorus runs as follows:

Cross over the road, my friend
Ask the Lord his strength to lend
His compassion has no end
Cross over the road

The version of the chorus that our angelic, as yet unbroken voices, raised to the heavens, differed somewhat from the original:

Cross over the road, my friend
A juggernaut's coming round the bend
Your life is about to end
Squashed over the road.

The most British thing in the world would be an on-the-fly lyrical overhaul of the One Britain One Nation Day song to incorporate puerile playground humour. It will fall to our children to lead the way on this. I only hope that their resilient spirits have not been broken by state enforced racial segregation and mandatory sex-ed lessons on woke dildo usage.

 

[DoubleD]

The left wing vote is fracturing badly between the three main left wing parties

On the contrary, the Lib Dem victory in Amersham seems to have convinced left-wing activists that a progressive alliance is possible.

In other words, the three (or four) left-wing parties agree that all their voters are going to vote tactically this election in order to beat those nasty conservatives. So Labour, Greens and possibly the SNP would agree not to campaign against the Lib Dems in a seat where the Lib Dems are the most likely to win, and so on for other parties.

What this assumes is that Labour loyalists will dutifully trot on over to the Lib Dems when they are denied the chance to vote Labour, and that Green Party voters (who, by definition, almost never vote tactically) will do the same.

Likewise, it assumes the SNP would even be interested in power-sharing at all.

But crucially, because one of these parties is so much bigger than the others (we'll see how Labour looks after 2024, but for now it is still the biggest), it would result in an asymmetrical balance of power in which the other parties all but merge with Labour, and become a complete irrelevance, much the same as the Co-operative Party.

Somehow I can't see the Lib Dems being up for this, given how much the coalition (a much looser and more pragmatic alliance than what is being proposed here) went on to damage them as a party. And without them, there's not very much that Labour, the Green Party, the SNP (and we may as well throw Plaid in there as well) can do together that they couldn't do separately. (SNP-Lab coalitions are a another matter, but this would not however require either party to cooperate before an election.)

Also, check the data in Chesham and Amersham, turnout was a solid 20% down. So don't expect the "blue wall" to crumble like the Lib Dumbs keep shrieking. When turnout returns to its normal range in the 70s, it will turn blue again. The Lib Dems always do well in bi-elections because they can focus fire on a single spot. When they have 600+ seats to challenge.... they vanish like sea foam and wind up with 15 MPs.

By-elections typically get low turnouts, so 52.1% is actually pretty normal. The party loyalists who show up in order to sway the national result don't show up, and the ones who do tend to vote for different reasons, with the focus being more on local issues than national ones.

This makes it a lot easier for people to vote tactically, which benefits from the positive feedback of them knowing other voters will likely do the same. Another reason why you can't extrapolate too much from this result, and why a Progressive alliance will not be possible.

With that being said:

1. All these extenuating circumstances do not excuse Labour's poor performance in Chesham and Amersham. 1.6% and losing to the Greens coud not be explained by mere tactical voting and the unusual circumstances of the by-election.
2. Part of me is hoping a progressive alliance actually does happen, if only so we get to see all the in-fighting between Britain's left-wing parties, the salt from voters, and just how much it destroys their credibility to get in bed with one another.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

Actually got around to looking into the song. Apparently it was written by primary school children and has mostly been promoted in Bradford and other areas. So the Twitterati tearing its lyrics apart are mocking the work of pre-teens.

'One Britain One Nation' in schools: what's all the fuss about?

The government has been widely mocked for promoting an event where school children sing a 'We are Britain' song. But why?

schoolsweek.co.uk

This seems mildly even handed. There's reasons to be leery about it.

But people are getting very irritated about it. To the degree that I even heard one of the BBC news scum repeating the North Korea comparison.

The Department for Education has been mocked for encouraging schools to take part in a campaign that involves children singing an “anthem” that end with children repeating the line “strong Britain, great nation”.

One Britain One Nation (OBON), which aims to a create a “strong, fair, harmonious and a proud British Nation”, was set up by former police officer Kash Singh, but has close links to Conservative MPs. ‘OBON day 2021’, an event celebrating “pride and unity”, is due to take place on Friday.

So why is the government promoting a previously little-known event, and why has it angered so many people? Or are people just making a fuss about nothing? Here’s what you need to know:

1. DfE tweeted campaign support after Tory MP request​

On Monday, Conservative MP Philip Davies asked the education secretary if he would “encourage all schools to take part in OBON Day on Friday”?

Gavin Williamson called the project “amazing” and said it was “incredibly important that schools take part”.

He added: “We have already asked schools to participate, and I am happy to reiterate the endorsement of the project from the Dispatch Box and to encourage them to play their part in it.”

The parliamentary session ended just after 3.30pm and the DfE had tweeted its support out at 4pm.

2. Pupils ‘must’ sing ‘We are Britain’ anthem​

The DfE encouraged schools to take part in the event this Friday. The campaign’s website asks for the “support of your school to celebrate the day in the spirit it is intended”.

Schools are urged to “do the following as a MUST please”: encourage every child to clap for a minute to recognise and pay tribute to all those who helped during Covid and also sing the “OBON Day 2021 anthem”.

The song, titled “We are Britain and we have one dream to unite all people in one Great Team”, was written by school children at St John’s CE Primary School, in Bradford.

Other advice for the day includes dressing children in the colours of the British flag (red, white and blue) and “this theme throughout the school to decorate classrooms etc”.

OBON aims to create a “strong, fair, harmonious and a proud British Nation, celebrating patriotism and respect for all our people”. The campaigns Twitter feed cites several schools that have signed up.

3. Why is it being mocked?​

The DfE tweet has had huge interaction: 5.7k shares and another 9.4k comments on Twitter.

While people questioned government support for what was a relatively unknown national campaign, it was the OBON anthem that came in for particular ridicule. The song includes the line “we are Britain and we have one dream, to unite all people in one great team” and ends with children repeatedly singing “Strong Britain, great na-ation”.

Former NHS trust boss Adrian Bull tweeted it was “awful on many levels … This song would not be out of place in North Korea!”. Others called it “creepy and just plain wrong” and “embarrassing nonsense”.

Some also pointed out that most schools in Scotland will have broken up for the summer holidays by this Friday.

But others have dismissed the outrage. Primary school teacher Solomon Kingsnorth tweeted some of the reaction is “embarrassing. Many reasons to dislike such a damp squib. However, a song written by primary children for an anti-hate organisation run by an Indian migrant & retweeted by a DfE donning pride flag is … far from the Hitler Youth.”

The DfE said it had “not asked people to sing songs or censored any specific materials for One Britain One Nation day”. The department supports the campaign’s “aims to help children learn about equality, kindness and pride, and it is for schools to decide how they teach these important values”.

4. Former cop founded campaign for nation to ‘showcase pride’ …​

Founder Kash Singh was a former police inspector in Bradford with West Yorkshire Police. He also set up the British Indian Association.

According to the Bradford Telegraph and Argus, Singh moved to Bradford from the Punjab with his parents at the age of six and joined West Yorkshire Police when he was 20.

He set up OBON in 2013, after he retired, because of a “personal desire to put back into the country that has given him so much”.

The campaign has a vision of creating “a strong, fair, harmonious and a proud British nation, celebrating patriotism and respect for all our people”, according to its website.

After starting in Bradford and West Yorkshire, Singh now wants to take it nationwide.

He told Times Radio: “This country is a brilliant country. I came to this country as a six-year-old kid who couldn’t speak a word of English. My parents were labourers, they worked in a factory and foundry, and there are fantastic people in this country.

“One of the things that was missing for me was what we need to do, is we need an organisation that the people of this country can align themselves to, to showcase their passion, pride and love for this great nation.”

5. … but campaign is closely linked to Tory MPs​

The group has some high-profile Conservative politician backers. Speaking in Parliament in 2018, Conservative MP Andrea Jenkyns said she and fellow Tory MP Andrew Rosindell launched the “One Britain One Nation all-party group, which will be working with schools to promote pride in our country, and respect, tolerance and inclusion regardless of one’s background”.

A website for the group states its purpose is to “bring people together – regardless of race, religion or background – to celebrate what unites us in being British”.

It also listed then Labour MP John Grogan as an officer. Jenkyns and Rosindell hosted an evening reception with “MPs, ministers and peers” to celebrate formation of the group. Attendees included Jacob Rees-Mogg (see pic below).

However the parliamentary group is not in the latest list of all-party parliamentary groups (APPGs). It was last registered on July 31, 2019. The group is thought to now be “defunct”.

But support for the national day resurfaced recently. Prime minister Boris Johnson backed the campaign in parliament earlier this year. The OBON website lists actress Joanna Lumley as a fan.

6. OBON is a Community Interest Company​

According to Companies House, OBON is a community interest company (which exists to benefit the community rather than private shareholders). It was set up in 2013.

Accounts filed this year state the campaign has “had a huge impact in bringing people of all communities and ages together”. It has also “attracted immense positive media attention”.

The accounts state that “all moneys [sic] used to progress the Vision of OBON has been the Directors [sic] own money”.

 

[Spunt]

On the contrary, the Lib Dem victory in Amersham seems to have convinced left-wing activists that a progressive alliance is possible.

In other words, the three (or four) left-wing parties agree that all their voters are going to vote tactically this election in order to beat those nasty conservatives. So Labour, Greens and possibly the SNP would agree not to campaign against the Lib Dems in a seat where the Lib Dems are the most likely to win, and so on for other parties.

What this assumes is that Labour loyalists will dutifully trot on over to the Lib Dems when they are denied the chance to vote Labour, and that Green Party voters (who, by definition, almost never vote tactically) will do the same.

Likewise, it assumes the SNP would even be interested in power-sharing at all.

But crucially, because one of these parties is so much bigger than the others (we'll see how Labour looks after 2024, but for now it is still the biggest), it would result in an asymmetrical balance of power in which the other parties all but merge with Labour, and become a complete irrelevance, much the same as the Co-operative Party.

Somehow I can't see the Lib Dems being up for this, given how much the coalition (a much looser and more pragmatic alliance than what is being proposed here) went on to damage them as a party. And without them, there's not very much that Labour, the Green Party, the SNP (and we may as well throw Plaid in there as well) can do together that they couldn't do separately. (SNP-Lab coalitions are a another matter, but this would not however require either party to cooperate before an election.)



By-elections typically get low turnouts, so 52.1% is actually pretty normal. The party loyalists who show up in order to sway the national result don't show up, and the ones who do tend to vote for different reasons, with the focus being more on local issues than national ones.

This makes it a lot easier for people to vote tactically, which benefits from the positive feedback of them knowing other voters will likely do the same. Another reason why you can't extrapolate too much from this result, and why a Progressive alliance will not be possible.

With that being said:

1. All these extenuating circumstances do not excuse Labour's poor performance in Chesham and Amersham. 1.6% and losing to the Greens coud not be explained by mere tactical voting and the unusual circumstances of the by-election.
2. Part of me is hoping a progressive alliance actually does happen, if only so we get to see all the in-fighting between Britain's left-wing parties, the salt from voters, and just how much it destroys their credibility to get in bed with one another.

As for a "progressive alliance":
- The SNP won't team up with anybody because they have no need to. They dominate Scotland, seem remarkably scandal-proof considering their many recent shenanigans, and don't give a fuck about what goes on in the UK parliament in general. At most, they might enter a coalition to resolve a hung parliament if they think they can get IndyRef2 out of it, but it won't last long because they're incapable of working with Labour or indeed each other most of the time.
- The Lib Dems formally allied with the SDP in the 80's and it nearly destroyed them completely. (For young'uns, the SDP were a centrist Labour splinter party formed when Labour lurched hard left under Michael Foot and became unelectable. It was a complete catastrophe, and memories of the SDP fiasco were probably what stopped the centrist/Blairite wing of Labour from splitting off under Corbyn). Though historically, the Lib Dems don't learn from their mistakes so they might try. But who would want the notoriously backstabby Lib-Dems on their side?
- The Greens are too insane to team up with anyone. Anyone more moderate than them won't want to be associated with their nutty policies (troonery, police defunding, shutting down industry, closing nuclear power stations and replacing them with nothing), anyone as or more extreme than them will do the usual far-left thing of fighting each other rather than the right.
- Entering a formal electoral pact would be utterly humiliating for Labour, admitting that they are also-rans rather than a credible alternative government. Whilst that's becoming increasingly true, they can't admit it because their factions might start splitting off - if it's a leftist alliance anyway, why should Corbynistas, Blairites and the rest tolerate each other when they can have their own parties with hookers and blow? It would be an admission of failure so vast that it could permanently end the party, like it did the SDP.

I don't feel that there's the kind of anti-Tory feeling that would make an anti-Tory electoral pact viable. Labour in particular want to keep their party together more than they hate the Tories these days. Boris simply isn't as detestable as Thatcher or as incompetent as Major or May for the entire Left to unite against him. Maybe if the next Tory leader is a big authoritarian asshole (Priti Patel) it might make people angry enough to do something, but it just strikes me that the British Left have run out of steam.

 

[Ponderous Pillock]

On the contrary, the Lib Dem victory in Amersham seems to have convinced left-wing activists that a progressive alliance is possible.

In other words, the three (or four) left-wing parties agree that all their voters are going to vote tactically this election in order to beat those nasty conservatives. So Labour, Greens and possibly the SNP would agree not to campaign against the Lib Dems in a seat where the Lib Dems are the most likely to win, and so on for other parties.

What this assumes is that Labour loyalists will dutifully trot on over to the Lib Dems when they are denied the chance to vote Labour, and that Green Party voters (who, by definition, almost never vote tactically) will do the same.

Likewise, it assumes the SNP would even be interested in power-sharing at all.

But crucially, because one of these parties is so much bigger than the others (we'll see how Labour looks after 2024, but for now it is still the biggest), it would result in an asymmetrical balance of power in which the other parties all but merge with Labour, and become a complete irrelevance, much the same as the Co-operative Party.

Somehow I can't see the Lib Dems being up for this, given how much the coalition (a much looser and more pragmatic alliance than what is being proposed here) went on to damage them as a party. And without them, there's not very much that Labour, the Green Party, the SNP (and we may as well throw Plaid in there as well) can do together that they couldn't do separately. (SNP-Lab coalitions are a another matter, but this would not however require either party to cooperate before an election.)

"Tactical voting" has been some leftie beardy weirdys dream since the 70s and the Labour/SDP split. The Modern SDP is effectively the Lib Dumbs. The Crab Bucket ensures it wont happen, as they should've simply stood their candidates down.

Ya know, like The Brexit Party did for BoJo back in 2019? That was an electoral pact, albeit one which the Tories swore up and down it definitely was not. Right before they stole most of their clothes and a wide chunk of their policies to boot.

By-elections typically get low turnouts, so 52.1% is actually pretty normal. The party loyalists who show up in order to sway the national result don't show up, and the ones who do tend to vote for different reasons, with the focus being more on local issues than national ones.

This makes it a lot easier for people to vote tactically, which benefits from the positive feedback of them knowing other voters will likely do the same. Another reason why you can't extrapolate too much from this result, and why a Progressive alliance will not be possible.

With that being said:

1. All these extenuating circumstances do not excuse Labour's poor performance in Chesham and Amersham. 1.6% and losing to the Greens coud not be explained by mere tactical voting and the unusual circumstances of the by-election.
2. Part of me is hoping a progressive alliance actually does happen, if only so we get to see all the in-fighting between Britain's left-wing parties, the salt from voters, and just how much it destroys their credibility to get in bed with one another.

Labour's increasingly an also-ran. There's a lot of caution ongoing from various sources because the Tories bounced back when we were talking about their time out of government due to Blair when the Tories were declared dead multiple times over those long 13 years.

Right before they took over the next 10 years and will likely continue for another ten at least under Johnson before moving onto someone like Rishi or even a shock runner like Kwarteng who seems very no-nonsense at times.

It'd also be the perfect fucking nail in Labour's constant tone-deaf "WE R 4 MINORITIEZ N WAHMENS" narrative as the Tories will have elected two women and the first minority PM into power.

Labour has fuck all, and thanks to Blair and Brown and Smith purging the party so thoroughly back in the late 80s and early 90s there's zero useful talent rising up their ranks.

It's all fruitcakes, loonies and overt racists.

 

[Snekposter]

I would think so, which explains why the scots are angry about it; that's their shtick.

The Scots sure seem like contentious people.

 

[Inquisitor_BadAss]

As for a "progressive alliance":
- The SNP won't team up with anybody because they have no need to. They dominate Scotland, seem remarkably scandal-proof considering their many recent shenanigans, and don't give a fuck about what goes on in the UK parliament in general. At most, they might enter a coalition to resolve a hung parliament if they think they can get IndyRef2 out of it, but it won't last long because they're incapable of working with Labour or indeed each other most of the time.
- The Lib Dems formally allied with the SDP in the 80's and it nearly destroyed them completely. (For young'uns, the SDP were a centrist Labour splinter party formed when Labour lurched hard left under Michael Foot and became unelectable. It was a complete catastrophe, and memories of the SDP fiasco were probably what stopped the centrist/Blairite wing of Labour from splitting off under Corbyn). Though historically, the Lib Dems don't learn from their mistakes so they might try. But who would want the notoriously backstabby Lib-Dems on their side?
- The Greens are too insane to team up with anyone. Anyone more moderate than them won't want to be associated with their nutty policies (troonery, police defunding, shutting down industry, closing nuclear power stations and replacing them with nothing), anyone as or more extreme than them will do the usual far-left thing of fighting each other rather than the right.
- Entering a formal electoral pact would be utterly humiliating for Labour, admitting that they are also-rans rather than a credible alternative government. Whilst that's becoming increasingly true, they can't admit it because their factions might start splitting off - if it's a leftist alliance anyway, why should Corbynistas, Blairites and the rest tolerate each other when they can have their own parties with hookers and blow? It would be an admission of failure so vast that it could permanently end the party, like it did the SDP.

I don't feel that there's the kind of anti-Tory feeling that would make an anti-Tory electoral pact viable. Labour in particular want to keep their party together more than they hate the Tories these days. Boris simply isn't as detestable as Thatcher or as incompetent as Major or May for the entire Left to unite against him. Maybe if the next Tory leader is a big authoritarian asshole (Priti Patel) it might make people angry enough to do something, but it just strikes me that the British Left have run out of steam.

The salt if Patel ever becomes prime minister would be endless. Third female prime minister under the Tories while labour has never had a female leader and she would be the first “poc” leader. Britain would be run into the ground but it would be one hell of a ride.

 

[Ginger Piglet]

I used to live not far from Chesham/Amersham and the whole place is full of the bottle-blonde crimson-taloned trophy wives of stockbrokers who drive drop-top Audis way too fast down country lanes on their way to £500 hair appointments. The only supermarkets are Waitrose and M&S, with the odd token Sainsburys for the au-pair. They are all natural Tories (apart from a few hippies around the Amersham Canal community who have always voted Lib Dem) but this is about HS2, because they've all paid stupid money for their country piles and don't want a railway spoiling the view their land value. The Lib Dems on a national level have consistently voted in favour of HS2, but have campaigned against it locally, because they are cynical assholes.

This kind of hypocrisy and unprincipled cynicism is a consistent Lib Dem thing, has been for decades. They opposed university tuition fees from when they were introduced in about 1998 up to and including their 2010 general election manifesto, basically because they used to have a stranglehold on the student vote and that policy was a good way of keeping it. When they entered the coalition government, they voted AGAINST a Labour amendment to abolish them, because they wanted to stay in power and suck up to the Tories. This directly led to their annihilation in 2015 as their core student base voted Labour, Green or just sat the election out.

Their entire schtick was that they could freely promise everything to everyone because they weren't going to get into government and get found out. It was a very short-sighted strategy in the end and nearly destroyed them completely in what was ironically supposed to be their finest hour. Nick Clegg, who on paper was the most successful Liberal leader since the 1920's, is as much of a figure of hate as Tony Blair is in Labour, and for similar reasons. It looks like they haven't learned their lesson at all, or they've gone back to that level of cynicism because they're again not going to have any national power for a very long time.

Ask anyone who has been into local political activism, for any party, who the worst people to deal with in grassroots campaigning are, and they will all agree that the Lib Dems are the worst. Lies, dirty tricks, astroturfing, libelling other candidates, you name it they do it and they are notorious for it, all while projecting the same friendly, reasonable and approachable image in the media. Considering that anybody in UK grassroots activism over the last 20 years has had to deal with the likes of the Greens, Corbynite Labour, UKIP and the Respect Coalition, they really have beaten tough competition to be the absolute worst.

Grew up in High Wycombe, can confirm.

Incidentally, your posting style seems strangely... familiar. Have you ever posted on b3ta at all?

 

[Slimy Time]

Ask anyone who has been into local political activism, for any party, who the worst people to deal with in grassroots campaigning are, and they will all agree that the Lib Dems are the worst. Lies, dirty tricks, astroturfing, libelling other candidates, you name it they do it and they are notorious for it, all while projecting the same friendly, reasonable and approachable image in the media. Considering that anybody in UK grassroots activism over the last 20 years has had to deal with the likes of the Greens, Corbynite Labour, UKIP and the Respect Coalition, they really have beaten tough competition to be the absolute worst.

I did some leafletting right around when May fucked herself and her party out of the majority Cameron gave his party. This statement could not be more true. When the fucking green council candidate came off as more principled and not as much of a smug cunt as the Lib-Dem candidate. The guys they were hiring for the leafletting were useless as well, didn't even bother to push the leaflet all the way through the mailbox, so we just pulled them out and trashed them.

Guido is pretty good at documenting the bold faced lies of the Lib-Dems every election. From graphs and charts that are complete fiction to fake newspapers dressed up as the real deal. In Wimbledon in 2017 they made a fake newspaper to fool people into thinking it's being impartial and fair to their candidate. They even had a "finance editor" writing a piece who was their Tooting candidate. The did it again in 2019 to the point where even The Guardian covered it.

Would love to hear any personal anecdotes about dealing with these clowns in local elections.

 

[DoubleD]

The salt if Patel ever becomes prime minister would be endless. Third female prime minister under the Tories while labour has never had a female leader and she would be the first “poc” leader. Britain would be run into the ground but it would be one hell of a ride.

The BBC lining up every left-wing comedian they can find who can criticise the Prime Minister relentlessly without it coming across as racist.

 

[soy_king]

The Scots sure seem like contentious people.

You just made an enemy for life!

 

[Snekposter]

You just made an enemy for life!

I'd be worried if the Scots did more than just stamp their feet and ree these days. None of them have the balls to send rampaging soldiers beyond Hadrian's Wall anymore, let alone the Atlantic Ocean.