Incel and Lonely Men Debate thread - Defend men giving up or tell them otherwise

[Lord of the Large Pants]

>man in his twenties
>doesn't go out
>doesn't go to parties
>all of his friends are paired up
>all of his coworkers are paired up

"Why can't I find women?"

I'm not even railing against your hypothetical, because I know people like that exist. But for real, what the hell do they expect? If everyone you ever talk to is paired off already and you're not meeting any new chicks ever, then... what? Are you just waiting around for one of your friends to break up or something? What's the game plan?

Well, a specific person I'm thinking of in this case tried online dating and had his friends introduce him to some girls, but none of them were interested.

EDIT: I should also probably specify that I don't mean "doesn't go out ever", just "doesn't routinely go out and get hammered every Friday night".

 

[David Brown]

I don't think an extensive and sincere study has been conducted on the incel phenomenon. I have my own speculations about the possible "causes" of incelery (absent fathers primarily) but I can't prove it.

People don't seem to understand that the modern day debauchery we see everywhere is probably tame in comparison to ancient times.

How would you show this to be the case? Is it just an impression you have about the past or is there some historical documentation you rely on to reach this conclusion?

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

I don't think an extensive and sincere study has been conducted on the incel phenomenon. I have my own speculations about the possible "causes" of incelery (absent fathers primarily) but I can't prove it.

I hear this a lot, but I don't think it's true in all cases. One guy I know had a dad who was a total pimp during his youth before getting married, and the son is a mostly decent guy but a total sperg with women.

 

[SideshowBob]

But ya if we go full savage, well, just look at nature, "alpha male" breeds all the females. ALL other males are incels. So ya. We evolved FROM that. So it used to be way worse.

Very true and most of life is a need to control what we get and receive a result in some way. Money is good enough for relationships in my opinion (simulate relationships, get cuddles to solve loneliness and become passionate about other things) but if I was born into money maybe the social shaming would come at a higher intensity, a la Eliot Rodgers supreme gentleman. His father and his peers made him kill because they gaslighted him.

Not only that, but there's a strong argument to be , it's incredibly demoralizing to feel like Lucy just pulled the damn football away again.

And if you're autistic enough to say any of this OUT LOUD, oh God, the snap backs. "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE YOU THINK YOU'RE ENTITLED TO WOMEN'S BODIES! NOBODY OWES YOU SEX! IF YOU REALLY TRIED YOU COULD GET A GIRLFRIEND! IF YOU WERE A BETTER PERSON WOMEN WOULDN'T HATE YOU! IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT! WOMEN DID NOTHING WRONG! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"

Exactly. chicken or egg scenario.. does the internet lead to social awkardness or do they search it out after being picked on. For me I was called weird way before I was old enough to
even go on a computer.

 

[David Brown]

-Teach social skills in schools
-Encourage students to talk about their feelings with the school shrink on a regular basis
-Encourage girls to make the first move more often through girls ask dances and the like
-Stop calling women who enjoy having casual sex sluts (by pointing out to men that it would make it a hell of a lot easier to get laid)
-Stop virgin shaming men, making them feel they have to have constant sex to affirm their masculinity (The amount of progressives who do this is baffling)

1. Schools are not a solution. Asking schools to fix something is a fucking disaster waiting to happen. Parents should teach their kids social skills by having the kids play with the neighbors. It is the parent's responsibility for their children's future well-being. Instead of more responsibility on the school (i.e. shitty incompetent municipal government bureaucracy), make no-fault divorce illegal and create a social environment in which parents who break up families are penalized. Basically fix families. Yes, I recognize this to be a pipe dream.

2. See number 1. School's don't need shrinks. They need less influence. Especially if you are talking about explicit psychological influence. Instead kids should be more willing to share with their family (including extended family). Aka families should be less fucked up. Again, pipe dream (in USA at least)

3. Seems fine. Nothing wrong with asking anybody to take more initiative. I don't think it would work but I can't see it hurting anything. Could create situations where incels just have the fact that they aren't liked rubbed in, when no girl asks them out and ten girls ask out Chad. But that happens anyway.

4. The sexual revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. A bizarre mixture of libertine sexual mores and puritan social psychopathy exists today and there are more incels and fewer people having sex. In fact, there is no reason to believe that eliminating "slut shaming" (which is mostly a female phenomenon, seriously, women are absolutely vicious to one another) would create a more egalitarian sexual society.

5. I agree. Virginity in and of itself is not shameful and should be considered a virtue.

I hear this a lot, but I don't think it's true in all cases. One guy I know had a dad who was a total pimp during his youth before getting married, and the son is a mostly decent guy but a total sperg with women.

Yes this anecdote and the many like it is why I lament the fact that there is not a comprehensive and sincere study available. Because all we really have is unsorted anecdotes and personal impressions about them.

 

[Knight of the Rope]

a la Eliot Rodgers supreme gentleman. His father and his peers made him kill because they gaslighted him.

Imagine actually believing this. Pray tell, how exactly is it everyone else's fault that Rodgers ended up the way he did?

 

[David Brown]

His father and his peers made him kill because they gaslighted him.

Who squeezed the trigger?

 

[Knight of the Rope]

Anyone who condemns him should test out the hypothetical scenario where they think they understand him and walk in his shoes.

If I was in his shoes I just would've not been an incel and had sex instead of shooting people. But that's just me I guess.

You didn't answer our question by the way. How exactly is Rodger's shooting spree anyone's fault but his own?

 

[Linkin Park]

A lot of incels got sold the idea that they'll be loved like how they are supposed to love their women. Modern woman is a different beast, but the expectation is that man is still supposed to be traditional. This "equality" age is what damned them, because most women are encouraged to box check everything a dude has, while most men are just supposed to accept. While women are encouraged to express and be themselves, men are encouraged, then told to be quiet/certain traits.

This group of hateful dudes come from a sincere place, where they get lured into the switching mechanisms of traditionalism and modernism. Incels should be MGTOW, if they're honest with themselves and what they like, because changing themselves to attract women is useless as shit. They should change to better themselves, whatever it is.

Perhaps we could tell young men that sexual relationships aren't as valuable as society tells us. But that is probably too reasonable.

Young men will hear it, before getting bombarded by sexual advertisement after sexual advertisement. It's hard to believe when your eyes see differently on a daily basis. Young men will need to hyperfocus to avoid it, which kills the ability to get ass as a whole.

 

[Ari Gold]

As others have said inceldom is a philosophy or a search for the way the world works. I was lured in by it when it first started becoming a thing like 7 years. Fortunately, I had had sex by then so I realized that pussy was not the end all be all in life. But I was lonely, lost, and seeking to understand why I was so unhappy. Whether normies wish to admit it or not their "understanding" of the way the fucking game works has some bits of "truth" in it here and there. But overall it's rather a terrible way to view the world and it really is a self-perpetuating world view. Thinking you can't get laid because of looks, status, height etc. becomes something you focus on which further prevents you from getting laid. Viewing yourself and others purely in terms of sexual market value or how valuable you are to the opposite sex prevents you from just being free in the moment and enjoying the company of another person which is often a prerequisite for a relationship whether it be sexual or not.

The real problem is that god is dead, the dating game has changed drastically since the invention of the internet, and some lonely men are looking for a purpose. Some people think sexual relationships is the purpose of our existence. And incels accept this point of view and feel that they live a purposeless existence which is where the black pill comes in: lay down and rot. How do we solve this? I don't know. I am just thankful I lived in a world pre-internet. If I were younger and hadn't gotten laid prior to being exposed to these ideas I certainly could have been a lifelong incel. Perhaps we could tell young men that sexual relationships aren't as valuable as society tells us. But that is probably too reasonable.

 

[Exigent Circumcisions]

Anyone who condemns him should test out the hypothetical scenario where they think they understand him and walk in his shoes.

Sorry, I can't imagine being such a pathetic faggot. There's nothing complicated to understand about him: he was a whiny spoiled brat who had everything you need to get your dick wet besides a functioning prefrontal cortex. Tough shit.

 

[DetectiveDuBois]

Probably most of them got rejected all their life online. they get their views on women from tinder - where all the woman are a whore or attention seeking model wannabe.

 

[Spiny Rumples]

Prostitutes "don't count" to them so I suspect sexbots won't either.

That's the trick to it...
If incels say they want sex but really want partners who genuinely have passion for them, then the sexbots will come out, and in a few product generations achieve sentience. Now we have robot femoids who aren't hypergamous or whatever and require much fewer resources (don't need a good job, personality, body, etc). Everyone wins until the robot rights movement begins and/or humans stop reproducing and are replaced by an all-robot society.

edit: Sorry, I thought this was the shitposting channel.

 

[shortstack]

Exactly. chicken or egg scenario.. does the internet lead to social awkardness or do they search it out after being picked on. For me I was called weird way before I was old enough to
even go on a computer.

how were you called weird? did you light other kids hair on fire or what?

 

[Haint]

Persecution complex

 

[DiscoRodeo]

A lot of incels got sold the idea that they'll be loved like how they are supposed to love their women.

I think this is where people should start when trying to understand the phenomena.

You know the meme "Disney movies ruined an entire generation of women with false expectation of love?"

I think the same can obviously be said of men as well. The generation I belong to, le 90s kids, were largely raised on media that portrayed romance in a more juvinile way- that if you were nice, saved the girl, were a gentleman like your favorite Disney or anime heroes, women would naturally fall into your lap in thanks. I think that this false expectation for boys, that being nice, bringing flowers, etc was what was required for sex, is the start of a flawed view of romance.

Add in the fact that a lot of boys and men just aren't interested in women at an intellectual level. I think in some sense men really do objectify women, they're treated as objectives and not really as people necessarily. Ask yourself about incels, and how they don't bother to learn a woman's interests, if they'd be a good match, what she's truly like, customizing gifts for her or to see if you really mesh, etc (look at CwC for a prime example here). Its just roses and generic shit.

I think it may have worked in the past because women were taught to settle with much less and that this sort of relationship, where they're less valued as an individual, was what they should aspire for, so with the modern sexual revolution, and breaking free from that, old romantic gestures may have basic benefit, but theyre simply not enough.

With all the incels out there, who havn't caught on to this yet, obviously this is pretty jarring and it seems a lot of them believe that they "played the game right, why am I not having sex", when the rules of the game changed a long time ago, if they were ever even all that relevant.

I know that the dating game has changed with the internet, and women (and men) can and are equally vapid, but seriously gamers. If its a new game, with new rules, meet the challenge or don't bitch about it. Incels who are bitter but barely even try, I honestly have little sympathy for, and its part of why I come on here to have a laugh. Even MGTOW who know the game, but reject it I have a bit more respect for. Step up, tbh, or leave, or if youre going to stick around but put in zero effort, don't bitch.

For why some incels commit crime, honestly? Theres stuff loose in their heads is my guess, and they seem to center their entire life around the absence of sex, which just gives off mad retard vibes. Chill, jack off to some porn for all I care if it makes you happy, God gave you hands for a reason.

 

[LaxerBRO]

As a faggot that is a few years away from 40 and slightly overweight I would like to say being a gay Incel is an impossibility.

Faggots under such delusions should go visit SteamWorks or similar gay sex clubs. Get drunk, lay face down in a sling in just spend the night.

Guaranteed someone will use your hole.


As to me? Haven't dated in about five to six years. But that is my fault. I like living in Idaho in a smallish city. I detest faggots that are liberal or commies. Not really attracted to Black or other Asians. Prefers monogamous relationships.

I have set my standards and have to live the consequences.

 

[RMQualtrough]

Misunderstanding of attraction is just immature, preyed upon by sociopath "dating coaches". There is no mystery. It's not mysterious or hidden knowledge.

Btw I'll be alone forever I feel sure in that.

 

[Blue Screen of Death]

Their obsession with getting laid just drives them mad, that's really the core of it.
Self-proclaimed incels should just focus on other shit, not even like "self-improving" but just picking up any other thing that distracts you from your eternal quest to get laid.

 

[JamusActimus]

Haven't dated in about five to six years.

Not really attracted to Black or OTHER Asians.

Mhhh this explains a lot