Porn and Porncows

[AngryItalianAmerican]

I don't see Ben Shapiro doing an interview with Brandi Love.
Anthony Cumia - yes

Shit. Cumia is so far down the Z-List he got btfo'd by the blacked meme girl after trying to show her his bank account. She told him she has more money.

That's a next level simp-coomer move

 

[frozenrunner]

In other news, my man Nobita is back at it again, and this one is a doozy. Now he's done a video talking about the dark side of Japan's porn industry, such as the epidemic of women being forced and coerced into doing porn videos. Have a watch:


In one of the more interesting moments, one of Nobita's interviewees, a girl who was forced into porn who didn't reveal her face or name, called out the fact that the other pornstars and former pornstars Nobita has interviewed up to this point all talked about how happy they were to be in the industry and how great it was, like it was this fun, amazing experience, while women like her hide what they've been through, afraid of the shame and ostracization they would face in Japan if they came out an

Eh... I think Nobita has made a mistake this time. Not because he talked to these women, but because getting earlier interviews with AV stars and them cutting to that footage as this anonymous women is talking about being exploited seems to implicate them in something they had no control over. It's poor form. It would really anger me, at least.

And there is no way to verify what these women are saying, and "I didn't realize I was raped until later/I have no agency" feminism is becoming an issue in Japan, too. I'm not calling her a liar, but most of what I heard in this video was not evidence of rape, just of weak-willed women who allowed themselves to be manipulated. Can you imagine being so spineless you unexpectedly see a room full of 15 strangers and you're just like, "well I guess it would be easier to have group sex with all these strangers than to say no." Women need to be raised to say no and not to apologize for it.

I assume most of these women have sexual abuse in their pasts, of course. I sympathize. But I'm not sure what they want me to conclude about the porn industry as a whole that makes sense as an argument.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Can you imagine being so spineless you unexpectedly see a room full of 15 strangers and you're just like, "well I guess it would be easier to have group sex with all these strangers than to say no."

Apparently you have not met a woman my friend. For most women, being in a room with 15 strange men being told you have to have sex, is literally the most terrifying experience you could ever be in. Complying to avoid a worse scenario of just being outright forced isn't an unusual response in situations like this and is actually common among rapes. Also, you have to consider Japanese culture here, which Nobita has actually explained in another video:

Japan is an extremely conservative, reserved, conformist society and this is inculcated all the way from childhood. These porn producers aren't stupid; they are taking advantage of the natural Japanese mindset and twisting it against these women, most of whom are still basically teenagers. The Japanese, as a people, have an extreme deference to authority, practice conflict avoidance to the extreme, are inculcated from youth to go along with the group and conform to the group consensus even if it goes against your personal morality so as not to disturb social harmony, are taught to not make trouble for other people, avoid uncertain situations that may cause trouble or discomfort, to just press through problems and keep your emotions hidden rather than facing them and potentially causing conflict, to NEVER SAY "NO" and all of this goes doubly for women, in a country that is still basically a patriarchal society. Add into the fact that many of these companies trick these young women into signing "contracts" and then holding that over their heads, or forcing them to take risque videos or pictures, then threatening to spread them, or tell their parents about them if they don't comply, and there is no way what these guys are doing isn't abusive.

 

[Random Internet Person]

Apparently you have not met a woman my friend. For most women, being in a room with 15 strange men being told you have to have sex, is literally the most terrifying experience you could ever be in. Complying to avoid a worse scenario of just being outright forced isn't an unusual response in situations like this and is actually common among rapes. Also, you have to consider Japanese culture here, which Nobita has actually explained in another video:

Japan is an extremely conservative, reserved, conformist society and this is inculcated all the way from childhood. These porn producers aren't stupid; they are taking advantage of the natural Japanese mindset and twisting it against these women, most of whom are still basically teenagers. The Japanese, as a people, have an extreme deference to authority, practice conflict avoidance to the extreme, are inculcated from youth to go along with the group and conform to the group consensus even if it goes against your personal morality so as not to disturb social harmony, to not make trouble for other people, avoid uncertain situations that may cause trouble or discomfort, to just press through problems and keep your emotions hidden rather than facing them and potentially causing conflict, to NEVER SAY "NO" and all of this goes doubly for women, in a country that is still basically a patriarchal society. Add into the fact that many of these companies trick these young women into signing "contracts" and then holding that over their heads, or forcing them to take risque videos or pictures, then threatening to spread them, or tell their parents about them if they don't comply, and there is no way what these guys are doing isn't abusive.

Wow. Not only does that sound like an antithesis to America, it’s sounds nothing like some “BASED NIPPON” fantasy /pol/ would talk about.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Wow. Not only does that sound like an antithesis to America, it’s sounds nothing like some “BASED NIPPON” fantasy /pol/ would talk about.

/pol/ gets all its knowledge about Japan from anime and sites like Sankaku Complex, and even Sankaku Complex has a better understanding of Japan than they do. And yeah, Japan is basically the exact antithesis of America culturally in a lot of ways. Despite being an equal to America when it comes to political rights (by their constitution, the Japanese are among the most free people in the world, legally speaking), their society is an oppressive, conformist nightmare. Its why so many people kill themselves, become hikikomori, stop going to school, and commit karoshi (literally work themselves to death). Conforming to all of Japanese society's nuances and expectations literally drives people batshit crazy, most lack any kind of real emotional outlet.

 

[frozenrunner]

Apparently you have not met a woman my friend. For most women, being in a room with 15 strange men being told you have to have sex, is literally the most terrifying experience you could ever be in. Complying to avoid a worse scenario of just being outright forced isn't an unusual response in situations like this and is actually common among rapes. Also, you have to consider Japanese culture here, which Nobita has actually explained in another video:

Japan is an extremely conservative, reserved, conformist society and this is inculcated all the way from childhood. These porn producers aren't stupid; they are taking advantage of the natural Japanese mindset and twisting it against these women, most of whom are still basically teenagers. The Japanese, as a people, have an extreme deference to authority, practice conflict avoidance to the extreme, are inculcated from youth to go along with the group and conform to the group consensus even if it goes against your personal morality so as not to disturb social harmony, are taught to not make trouble for other people, avoid uncertain situations that may cause trouble or discomfort, to just press through problems and keep your emotions hidden rather than facing them and potentially causing conflict, to NEVER SAY "NO" and all of this goes doubly for women, in a country that is still basically a patriarchal society. Add into the fact that many of these companies trick these young women into signing "contracts" and then holding that over their heads, or forcing them to take risque videos or pictures, then threatening to spread them, or tell their parents about them if they don't comply, and there is no way what these guys are doing isn't abusive.

I understand all that. But women either have agency or they don't. If they don't, they're eternal victims who aren't ultimately responsible for any of the decisions they make because they don't really make them. If they do have agency, they bear some responsibility for what happens to them.

There are damaged women who porn producers can sniff out, and they don't make smart sexual decisions because of sexual trauma. I get it, and I don't condemn them for it. I also know the yakuza are involved with porn production in Japan, and they aren't above rape.

But Nobita has done many more videos with women who do have agency in the AV industry. I wonder what they think of being cut and pasted next to this totally anonymous women talking about the evil exploitation of the industry? And I am not calling this woman a liar, but it doesn't sound like she's taking responsibility for her choices, either. And that's very much in vogue.

Either way, we have to raise our daughters with iron backbones. The idea that you don't have a choice when placed in a bad situation is a lie. We always have a choice.

 

[Captain Fitzbattleaxe]

Eh... I think Nobita has made a mistake this time. Not because he talked to these women, but because getting earlier interviews with AV stars and them cutting to that footage as this anonymous women is talking about being exploited seems to implicate them in something they had no control over. It's poor form. It would really anger me, at least.

They do play a part in the exploitation of women, though. By saying that porn is an fun and amazing experience they're more or less living ads for the companies that are exploiting women.

Their talk about how good it is to work as a porn actor is causing other women do follow in their footsteps. Most of which suffers from it. And while those women ultimately have themselves to blame for it, the AV actors do deserve some of the blame for it.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

I understand all that. But women either have agency or they don't. If they don't, they're eternal victims who aren't ultimately responsible for any of the decisions they make because they don't really make them. If they do have agency, they bear some responsibility for what happens to them.

Its not that simple. Cultural norms and expectations clearly do play a part. A woman in Taliban run Afghanistan is going to have far less agency than in the United States, and she's going to be brought up in a culture that reflects that lack of agency. She will be taught that she is less than and has no power in society. Japanese women don't have it nearly as bad as Afghani women, but they are brought up in a culture that very much discourages taking independent initiative, and that will effect how they respond to situations, especially in group situations, where that group think mentality would be strongest. A woman in that situation would feel compelled to comply, even if it went against her very being, because that is literally what is ingrained in them, and one thing that I've realized is that its very hard to get out of that mentality, especially when you've lived your whole life in it. I get it, I do. Japanese deference to conformity, strict adherence to rules and hierarchy, staunch conservatism and need avoid any and all kinds of risk, no matter how small, really irks me a lot too. But I also understand that I am a Westerner, therefore I was raised in a society that values independent judgement, independent initiative, and putting the individual and their rights over the collective, versus Japan that values conforming to society and putting the greater needs of the group over the individual in all things.

But Nobita has done many more videos with women who do have agency in the AV industry. I wonder what they think of being cut and pasted next to this totally anonymous women talking about the evil exploitation of the industry? And I am not calling this woman a liar, but it doesn't sound like she's taking responsibility for her choices, either. And that's very much in vogue.

How much agency porn actresses actually have is in question here. One of the women Nobita interviews for this video is a veteran actress who was quite a hot commodity in the 90s and even she admits, looking back on it, that her contracts were crappy and completely unfair to her, and according to her, they are even worse now. With so many women entering the business, actresses probably have even less bargaining power than they did before. Its why the industry started regulating itself regarding contracts.

 

[George Floyd Sneed]

I don't mind porn women (and men!) having right-wing beliefs or supporting right-wing causes, I mind that we're supposed to have any consideration on their thoughts about their positions. OK, you're on the right side, great, but until you stop whoring on camera I will never take anything that you say about politics or society seriously.

I generally agree with this. If the right actually has a future, it’s going to have a nonzero amount of reformed leftists, which includes whores, whether they perform on camera or otherwise.

The general beef I have is the Gay Old Perverts’ obsession with tokenism. No, Brandi Love does not deserve to move to the front of the line because she’s in porn. If they want to be on the right and talk about it, great, go right ahead. Does she deserve to be a speaker in some GriftNat rally? Hell no.

 

[Jan Ciągwa]

Wow. Not only does that sound like an antithesis to America, it’s sounds nothing like some “BASED NIPPON” fantasy /pol/ would talk about.

Related article
archive.org version
Yeah, Kotaku. Trust me, the article is better than you might assume.

IIRC Japanese men are so, uh, manly that women let them pass first through the door and such. I've heard a lot of stories about foreign men marrying Japanese women, but almost none about foreign women marrying Japanese men.

About agency in porn: it's a first-world capitalist country, so you might not be forced at gunpoint to stay in the kitchen but you're as good a person as your CV is, so if you're known as the girl who gives her employers headaches then your career is pretty much over. This doesn't apply just to porn. Not to mention the kind of women who voluntarily do porn for money are braindead in the first place and entitled to be tard-wrangled by the legal system IMO.

 

[DumbDude42]

How much agency porn actresses actually have is in question here. One of the women Nobita interviews for this video is a veteran actress who was quite a hot commodity in the 90s and even she admits, looking back on it, that her contracts were crappy and completely unfair to her, and according to her, they are even worse now. With so many women entering the business, actresses probably have even less bargaining power than they did before. Its why the industry started regulating itself regarding contracts.

if a contract is crappy and unfair to you then you don't fucking sign it in the first place, that's what agency refers to.
well unless they have groups of tattooed yakuza brutes force you to sign at knifepoint, but i seriously doubt that this is what's happening (and such a contract would be null and void in the eyes of the law anyway)

 

[Jan Ciągwa]

That's the idealist-libertarian model, where everyone is a perfectly rational agent with unlimited resources to engage with the system. If real world worked like that, there would be no wage slavery today.

In theory, you don't have to drink at corporate parties. In practice, doing so will make you stand out like a sore thumb during the next promotion opportunity.

 

[DumbDude42]

That's the idealist-libertarian model, where everyone is a perfectly rational agent with unlimited resources to engage with the system. If real world worked like that, there would be no wage slavery today.

In theory, you don't have to drink at corporate parties. In practice, doing so will make you stand out like a sore thumb during the next promotion opportunity.

nah man, trying to pull the the "muh social pressures!" excuse for why you signed up for getting triple anal gangbanged by fat ugly bastards on camera just isn't convincing.

and if it was convincing, then it would mean that you literally are unfit to make decisions for yourself, that you can not be trusted with handling your own life choices, that you need a legal guardian or something like that.

 

[Jan Ciągwa]

This argument is also applicable to not saying "negro" in your workplace else you get fired, even if you work as a literature professor quoting Mark Twain. It's easy to be a tough guy online on a devil's rejects forum, but IRL you're just gonna look stupid and nobody's going to back you up or associate with you.

I agree that pornstar material are girls so retarded they can't even find a sugar daddy willing to put up with them, or they're boring 5s who look kinda 8-tish if they doll up for a scene. Then they hear arguments like "everyone is doing anal, they even pay extra for that", maybe have meth given to them to loosen them up a bit (figuratively and literally) - next thing you know is you're getting paid barely enough to keep your addiction under control and every drug dealer your know has ties to the porn industry, and if you try to seek help you're going to jail or get disavowed by friends or parents. Many Current Year pornstars are just lazy people who don't mind getting railed few times so they'd have money for some stupid designer heels, though, and so stupid they think they can just stop any time and memoryhole everything.

Fun fact: in the past pretty much every actress sold her body for money because theathrical acts in a wandering troupe just weren't paying enough to not starve, and in every town or hamlet they'd visit there were loads of married people bored with their spouses and willing to engage in some guilt-free side sex with a man/woman who'd disappear the next day and wouldn't spread rumors.

 

[AngryItalianAmerican]

nah man, trying to pull the the "muh social pressures!" excuse for why you signed up for getting triple anal gangbanged by fat ugly bastards on camera just isn't convincing.

and if it was convincing, then it would mean that you literally are unfit to make decisions for yourself, that you can not be trusted with handling your own life choices, that you need a legal guardian or something like that.

"It's always the victim's fault."

Gotta love libertarians.

Although I could see those retarded japanese girls just getting a regular 9 to 5 in a country with a severe lack of young low-skilled labor instead of getting buttfucked by chubby dudes with small dicks.

 

[DumbDude42]

"It's always the victim's fault."

Gotta love libertarians.

Although I could see those retarded japanese girls just getting a regular 9 to 5 in a country with a severe lack of young low-skilled labor instead of getting buttfucked by chubby dudes with small dicks.

nah man, if you sign up for porn, it's on you, plain and simple.
it'd be a different story if we were talking about girls getting kidnapped or trafficked into prostitution, but that's just not what's happening here. they decide to get into this business out of their own free will. there's no "do this or you starve to death" going on, no "do this or we kill your family", no "do this or we beat you to a pulp", nothing like that, just the classic "do this and we'll pay you for it". you can't do something like that and then retroactively declare yourself a victim when you eventually come to regret your choice later on. your choice, your responsibility, simple as.

 

[Jan Ciągwa]

Although I could see those retarded japanese girls just getting a regular 9 to 5 in a country with a severe lack of young low-skilled labor instead of getting buttfucked by chubby dudes with small dicks.

There's almost no job opportunity for "low-skilled labor" in Japan. Either work yourself half to death for a degree or good luck being a NEET in your mom's basement.

Some people are just stupid and can't learn for shit, you can't solve this problem by just throwing money at the education system. If their parents are dead or unsupportive then it's either be a bum or get fucked for money.

 

[Stasi]

tfw the porn thread has more nuanced discussion of culture and politics than the spastics in A&N. God bless you coomers.

 

[Meriasek]

I hope Gracie Green never gets fucked over (heh) by the porn industry. She has a way about her that I find quite nice compared to many other performers. Actually makes it seem like she enjoys what she's doing, and she has a pleasant girl-next-door-look to her. Wouldn't want her to get absolutely ruined by the industry. Doesn't have too many scenes yet, maybe she gets out quickly.

 

[AngryItalianAmerican]

There's almost no job opportunity for "low-skilled labor" in Japan. Either work yourself half to death for a degree or good luck being a NEET in your mom's basement.

Some people are just stupid and can't learn for shit, you can't solve this problem by just throwing money at the education system. If their parents are dead or unsupportive then it's either be a bum or get fucked for money.

Nigger please.

You know a conservative country is starving for low-skilled workers when they start opening a "Guest Worker Program."

Those racist idiots will go extinct because of their belief in homogenity. Who can blame them though...
You know how starved companies in the states are for low skilled workers after the pandemic. Now imagine that for a negative natality rate country.

nah man, if you sign up for porn, it's on you, plain and simple.
it'd be a different story if we were talking about girls getting kidnapped or trafficked into prostitution, but that's just not what's happening here. they decide to get into this business out of their own free will. there's no "do this or you starve to death" going on, no "do this or we kill your family", no "do this or we beat you to a pulp", nothing like that, just the classic "do this and we'll pay you for it". you can't do something like that and then retroactively declare yourself a victim when you eventually come to regret your choice later on. your choice, your responsibility, simple as.

You know what?
I was wrong. Point @DumbDude42