Plagued COVID Conspiracy Theorists and other idiots - This is not a political thunderdome or gay slapfight thread.

Florida could serve as a bellwether for some projections. while the rhetoric is loud from some government and some colorful personalities, the data simply says that many Floridians are getting vaccinated regardless and are taking it seriously.

I've seen some models speak of peaks as soon as 4 weeks and now this one below. The vaccination rate in Florida has jumped dramatically in the last 4 weeks for all age groups and with the elderly currently 94% have received one shot and 81% have had the full 2 shots - which suggests give or take 13% have sought a shot alone in the last month it would seem.

We are about to see whether herd immunity is possible - if indeed a greater percentage of 18+ years to 65 gets vaccinated, and data tells that many of them are getting vaccinated in the last month. We are also seeing that the rhetoric of "no vaccine" is losing ground, people - at least in Florida - are going to get their vaccines.

Let us see what happens.

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talk sh1t said:
I've seen the example of Marek's disease (in poultry) brought up as a counter-argument to this. It was a disease that was originally mild, but it was decided to vaccinate all chicken from then on. The vaccine, however, unlike most vaccines, (but similarly to the COVID mRNA vaccines) did not prevent the spread of the disease, so after 30+ years, Marek's disease evolved into a strain with 100% mortality for unvaccinated chicken.
People believe this same thing could happen with the Covid vaccines. So you could say this is actually an argument to get the vaccine, because as Covid inevitably evolves into a deadlier strain for the unvaccinated, you definitely don't want to get caught with your draws down. But that also means that we are condemning ourselves forever to take booster shot after booster shot for a disease that may not have been that bad in the first place but now most definitely is. Sure, you could argue that as time goes by, better booster shots will be developed with less and less collateral problems and will become "safer" than now (Moderna is in trouble right now for heart-related side-effects), but that's not a satisfying scenario for me.

Here's an article by Ed Yong about Marek's: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...es-enhance-spread-of-deadlier-chicken-viruses

Again, I don't want to shit up this thread with this un-funny argument, it's just that the other Covid threads are much more heavily slanted against the vaccination, so there's less of a debate there. I'm open to DMs.
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Well, let us be practical...

Delta arose in a country where the locals bathe in the Ganges and have immune systems of Iron Man. And our Chicken farm of humans is an 8 billion member farm with diverse genetic disposition. So the rise of less and more severe Covid is to be expected regardless.

But you are correct, a severe form of covid that resists vaccination could arise from a vaccinated population and is a genuine concern of high significance, but would it arise anyways from a population that had a wave of Covid and had natural anti-bodies to it anyways?

As with all unknowns in science "Your best guess Mr. Sulu."
 
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talk sh1t said:
I've seen the example of Marek's disease (in poultry) brought up as a counter-argument to this. It was a disease that was originally mild, but it was decided to vaccinate all chicken from then on. The vaccine, however, unlike most vaccines, (but similarly to the COVID mRNA vaccines) did not prevent the spread of the disease, so after 30+ years, Marek's disease evolved into a strain with 100% mortality for unvaccinated chicken.
People believe this same thing could happen with the Covid vaccines. So you could say this is actually an argument to get the vaccine, because as Covid inevitably evolves into a deadlier strain for the unvaccinated, you definitely don't want to get caught with your draws down. But that also means that we are condemning ourselves forever to take booster shot after booster shot for a disease that may not have been that bad in the first place but now most definitely is. Sure, you could argue that as time goes by, better booster shots will be developed with less and less collateral problems and will become "safer" than now (Moderna is in trouble right now for heart-related side-effects), but that's not a satisfying scenario for me.

Here's an article by Ed Yong about Marek's: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...es-enhance-spread-of-deadlier-chicken-viruses

Again, I don't want to shit up this thread with this un-funny argument, it's just that the other Covid threads are much more heavily slanted against the vaccination, so there's less of a debate there. I'm open to DMs.
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Chicken farms are the ideal places for disease to spread. Chickens are kept in compact areas with little hygiene and little attention paid to the health of the individual chicken. It’s a good example for the study of the spread of disease in prison but nowhere else really compares.
 
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Techpriest said:
Chicken farms are the ideal places for disease to spread. Chickens are kept in compact areas with little hygiene and little attention paid to the health of the individual chicken. It’s a good example for the study of the spread of disease in prison but nowhere else really compares.
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>implying that in most of the world, an average citizen can get a comprehensive health check and case histories are rigidly maintained down to a last little sneeze.

You could also argue that in big cities, loads of people are kept in compact little areas and some of those areas do experience problems with hygiene.

Besides, regardless of the setting, wouldn't the mechanism behind viral evolution be the same? Or is there some monumental difference that you can point to besides "eh, those are chickens and we are humans".
 
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Vince McMahon said:
You could also argue that in big cities, loads of people are kept in compact little areas and some of those areas do experience problems with hygiene.
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That is the most autistic argument you ever made, and that's saying a lot.

Comparing people living in a city to how chickens are kept is insanely retarded. Like, if we could convert that into energy, we'd be energy dependent for centuries.

This is how chickens are kept:
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Do you know any city in the world where people are living like that constantly?
 
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talk sh1t said:
I've seen the example of Marek's disease (in poultry) brought up as a counter-argument to this. It was a disease that was originally mild, but it was decided to vaccinate all chicken from then on. The vaccine, however, unlike most vaccines, (but similarly to the COVID mRNA vaccines) did not prevent the spread of the disease, so after 30+ years, Marek's disease evolved into a strain with 100% mortality for unvaccinated chicken.
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Perhaps something needs to be clarified first, because I've seen this point being misrepresented a lot in anti-vaxxer circles. Maybe you know, maybe you don't, but it seems like a good idea to spell it out: Covid vaccines do prevent the spread of the disease, just not 100%. A vaccinated person has a high enough viral load to spread the virus once infected, but they key point is that vaccinated people are significantly less likely to get infected in the first place. That's something that's often omitted when anti-vaxxers talk about vaccinated people spreading the Covid.

As far as the comparisons to Marek's disease are concerned, it should be pointed out that as opposed to the Covid vaccines, the Marek's vaccine doesn't prevent infection at all. It's only effective against the symptoms, at least to my knowledge. And you also need to ask yourself why the disease couldn't have evolved that way in unvaccinated populations. It's because the hosts would have died too quickly. Death is what's stopping the evolution of the disease in the absence of a vaccine, and you really need to consider whether that's a good alternative to the current strategy.

How does a highly virulent strain of a disease become a dead end in an unvaccinated population? By killing the hosts fast enough before the strain can spread. That means the strategy of avoiding vaccinations in order not to breed superbugs is only effective against strains that kill the host faster than the virus can spread. In the case of chickens that's alright, because they live in captivity and don't travel between farms, so even if a superbug that suddenly pops up takes weeks to kill infected animals, the spread of that superbug is most likely going to be limited.

But except for researchers in Antarctica, humans don't live in closed groups without outside interaction. So what kind of highly virulent strain would be too lethal to spread in a human population? Since people come into close contact with strangers every day and travel freely around the world, the strategy of not vaccinating would only prevent strains that kill the host before the host becomes infectious. It would not be effective against strains with a 100% mortality rate say 14 days after being infected. A strain like that could arise naturally and spread successfully in an unvaccinated population.
 
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Vince McMahon said:
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Montane Mansion
1028 King's Rd, Quarry Bay, Hong Kong
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That's still a gigantic difference from chicken conditions. Until people are kept so close together, 24/7, where they can't even sit down, it's a completely useless and retarded comparison

I know, you want the vaccine to be bad, but come on man. Even you know there's a difference there
 
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Hollywood Hulk Hogan said:
That's still a gigantic difference from chicken conditions. Until people are kept so close together, 24/7, where they can't even sit down, it's a completely useless and retarded comparison
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Absolutely. At least they're not squatting together side-by-side.
 

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Vince McMahon said:
Of course there's a gigantic difference! At least they don't shit right in front of each other, though I wouldn't put that past those pesky Chinese. Just look at it! So much place still to put a few more people! Not chicken conditions at all.

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Again, I know you have debilitating autism and that makes context really hard for you to understand. You also are a good little right-winger and the elderly conman who you simp for told you that you want the vaccine to be bad, but if you can't see the difference between 2-3 people living together in close quarters and thousands of chickens living so close together they can't even sit down, you either need new glasses or you need to up your sessions with your tardwrangler because there's a huge difference there.
 
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Raging Capybara said:
So apparently FDA will permanently approve the COVID vaccines pretty soon, some even say tomorrow. The cretins on Deep Thoughts and A&E will finally need to change their excuses.

"I'm not an anti-vax buuuuuuuuuuuuut.....". I can't wait to see what they will come up with.
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"THE FDA IS CORRUPT AND COMPRIMISED!"

- Probably what they'll say
 
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Raging Capybara said:
So apparently FDA will permanently approve the COVID vaccines pretty soon, some even say tomorrow. The cretins on Deep Thoughts and A&E will finally need to change their excuses.

"I'm not an anti-vax buuuuuuuuuuuuut.....". I can't wait to see what they will come up with.
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I always found it funny how some of the most militant anti-government types suddenly decided that their justification for distrusting the covid vaccines is that a government agency hasn't approved them yet.
 
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I get all of my covid-19 information from Becky McGillicuddy on Facebook. In between Facebook Lives where she sells buttery-smooth leggings and jewelry she also lets me know how the government is trying to inject my children with Biden's death serum. She's never stepped foot into a university or left her hometown but 'ol Becky keeps it real and knows I like my science to also validate my political views.
 
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