Pathetic Gender Critical Parents of Troons - And others who object to troonery while also enabling it

A Wider Lens - Youtube

I want to speak generally about some of the videos on this channel that I've watched in past (because I forget which ones I'm citing):

1. I find it interesting that the kid's entire real life friend group always ends up trooning out. And by interesting, I mean that it tells me a lot about the parents. It's never the kids who are allowed to walk anywhere on their own, take the bus, go to concerts, hang out in ravines, etc.- typical age appropriate teenage shit. It always seems to be the kids whose parents curated the "perfect" friend group for them pre-adolescence. Always quiet, never getting into trouble. The reality of those friends groups is that they are incredibly shallow. None of these kids feel comfortable actually opening up to one another, especially about how fucked up and borderline incestuous their parents act, without fear of it getting back and leading to fucked up consequences. These kids need ride or dies, the type that will let you crash on their couch if shit hits the fan at home. If they can't find that in real life, they will look for it online (which makes them easy targets for grooming and predators).
   1. Side note, I feel like a big reason these parents create these curated groups is so they don't have to be critiqued by the parents of socially successful kids. Mr & Mrs Smith let little Billy have unsupervised time with his friends and he still manages to get good grades, maintain a part-time job, and play sports? Might break the illusion that we're perfect.
   2. Also, what is with parents of autistic or borderline autistic kids who live in places cut off from public transport? I noticed this with Amberlynn's ex, Krystle, and how it was a 2hr walk to get to a bus stop from her (doxxed) house. These parents also don't put meaningful effort into getting their kids to learn to drive, which only further isolates them and makes it harder to not live entirely online.
2. The parents are so gung-ho about how there are "no more emo kids" these days. It reminds me of this one dyke lolcow with a thread here who was saying a decade and a half ago that there were "no more goths." I guarantee you that there are still these type of kids around, but they don't hang out with your kid because they can sniff out that their parents are psycho. If you aren't around kids frequently, and not just kids that come into your practice, you probably shouldn't make sweeping generalizations.
3. Another apt comparison is the parallels between anorexic teenage girls with troon girls. When parents make statement, I don't think they realize how often they are telling on themselves for being a piece of shit. Spend any time in an eating disorder forum and you will see that the biggest source of people fucking around with their body comes down to the backhanded comments from their parents (who simultaneously do nothing to give their kids a healthy structure to achieve the results they expect). Your daughter thinks she needs to be a boy to have hobbies and interests? Couldn't possibly be related to the fact that her mom chastises her for doing nothing while spending all her free time watching Lifetime movies. It's like yelling at your kid for how fat they are and then yelling at them again an hour later for not finishing dinner.
4. So many of them underestimate how painfully aware these kids are of what the lives of their peers are like. Even without social media, they would hear about things in the hallways that other kids are getting up to, both pro-social and anti-social. The troon shit, likely just on an unconscious level, is just a formalized way to have some control over their bodies that others around them will protect from their enmeshed parents. I mean, what are they going to do, dye their graying hair unnatural colours the same way they dye it to their kid's natural colour? Dress like an anime girl at the bank?

Angus Fox's Posts
I forget which one it is, but my favourite story is of the 18 year old troon who pulled a knife on his narcissistic mother which finally got her to let him just fucking leave and live with the internet groomer troon. Quite frankly, most of these kids, if they detransition or desist, will not do so unless they are far away from their parents and actually have the room to be people with hobbies and interests. It reminds me of SaltyAlty and how, while making her OnlyFans (while being a totally real and not fake asexual you guise) had her hyper religious mother wanting to see her nudes. What parent wants to see pictures or videos of their kid masturbating? It's clear that the enmeshment stressed her out of having a libido as a teenager (plus working 60-80hrs a week as a young adult at Walmart kept up the charade) only for her body to start to experience it all again once she was in a safe place and could fucking relax for once.

TL;DR : these kids would be better off if their parents died in a car crash and they inherited the life insurance.

It won't let me reply @raritycat but great post with great points all around. I can't say a lot without powerleveling but I have seen that scenario with the trooned out kid and enmeshed parents play out irl with close enough detail to see very clearly what's really going on behind the scenes.

Here is today's overwrought parent inadvertently revealing truths about themselves. (archive)

My daughter has been evaluated, prodded, tested, psychoanalyzed and more since she was 4 years old. After managing a pretty happy and stable childhood in a foreign country, we unfortunately moved back to the US. She soon received a diagnosis of ASD and we promptly entered the mental health industrial complex.

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So which one is it, a happy and stable childhood, or a childhood spent in a foreign country getting poked and prodded by doctors?

This next mother identifies herself as a "professional feminist" and her daughter as a "cool baby feminist." (archive)

As I came quickly to understand, she was the embodiment of the Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria (ROGD) girl: well-meaning liberal parents, everything princessy and pink as a child, a chest full of dress-up clothing, and complete impatience for people who saw her short haircut and couldn’t see that OBVIOUSLY she was a girl. Obviously! But when she started high school, my cool baby feminist introduced herself as “Tommy,” and—again, another cliché—her teachers and the entire school administration conspired to call her “Tommy” and he/him at school, all the while using her real name to our faces, the faces of the only parents she’ll ever have.

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It's a subjective thing perhaps but in my observation, parents who use that line "the only parents she'll ever have!!" are almost always narcissistic shitheads. They emphasize the obvious as a way of underlining obligation and pushing guilt.

I am a North American academic in the field of women’s and gender studies, and I am protected by the great privilege of tenure. I used to have a high internet profile, so when I learned about Lisa Littman’s pathbreaking paper in 2018, I went on social media to urge fellow academics to read the paper, and even if they disagreed with her conclusions, to support her academic freedom.

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If someone wanted to sharpen their elbows and go at it, they could dox her. I don't care enough to do it, but dumb move- in the service of pride, because she can't let the reader walk away without knowing she is a Professional Feminist Academic WITH TENURE!

Next, when corresponding over email with friends and acquaintances, I would ask after their daughters, and a few replied that their daughters now believed they were their sons or were “non-binary.” When I told them that I knew what they might be going through because of my daughter’s brief trans-identification, and said that I had serious problems with what I see as an internet-enabled instance of teen contagion and mass psychosis, they (every single one, all of them men) said they agreed and were so happy to hear they weren’t alone in their heresy. They were bewildered—like me, they all saw themselves as good liberals and accepting people, but they didn’t think their children were transgender.

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What if instead of a paradox ("good liberal, professional feminist, yet daughter trooned out!!") we are looking at cause and effect?

Oh here's another one, from the POV of the guy who detransitioned:

I wanted to be close to my parents, but there were some obstacles. My dad has Asperger’s Syndrome. He’s a man of few words and doesn’t really do the big talks very well. He came across to me as not always agreeable but, nonetheless, he was my hero. I used to look up at him with awe—he was confident, tough, intelligent, and a strong guy. Emotionally though, he was nearly absent, damaged himself from a physically abusive upbringing. I always felt like he yearned to be closer with his kids, but just couldn’t.
My parents argued a lot, and there were some intense moments—but I always thought they loved each other. By about the age of 12, I discovered that my parents’ relationship wasn’t what it had seemed—I had no idea my Dad had been unfaithful and physically abusive to my mother since before I was born and had continued these behaviors throughout my life. While this of course damaged my mother greatly, they had agreed to stay together for the kids, or at least until the youngest (me) turned 16.
That didn’t quite last though. When I was around 15, my dad left and a few months later he came back, drunk, and tried to force his way back into our home. He grabbed my mother by the hair and threw her down. I couldn’t believe it. I didn’t know what to do. Eventually I rang my sister who lived 100s of miles away and she called the police that evening.
Cue a really traumatic divorce, which included all manner of crazy things. At that point, my mother had to leave the family home, and she moved in with my now step-dad (who’s great!), and I was left alone with my Dad for the next two years, until age 17. This was a difficult time for me. My dad would go out a lot, sometimes for a few days, sometimes for a week and, being a fairly cotton wooled kid, I had no idea how to take care of myself. My mother would come and bring me meals twice a week when my Dad wasn’t there (which was often).

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Read between the lines...

My mother, because of my dad and her own upbringing, wasn’t a confident woman. She is a nice person, with a great heart, but what ended up happening to me as a child was that she would treat me like a magic mirror, to validate her and boost her self-esteem. She would ask me if she was beautiful, if my friends talked about her, if she was the best mother in the world—and these were all scripted questions with an expected answer. I knew what I had to say and she would smile and hug me after I said it.
But that drained me. Even into recent years (I’m in my thirties now), she still does it occasionally, and I just don’t respond. The constant reassuring was overwhelming— during the divorce, during childhood, through my depression, anxiety, during bullying and during transition, I was always looking after her feelings. I knew it was my job to reassure her and, knowing what she had been through, I made damn sure I did it.
She didn’t do this because she was a bad person—she was damaged—but it just transferred onto me and my sense of self was obliterated. I found myself seeking validation the same way she did with me, but with internet strangers—and because I had other issues going on it was easier for me to fall into that trap of having my self-esteem reliant on the internet.

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Experience the cringe that is the essay Sex and ROGD.

How many ROGD female teens have ever experienced orgasm? I don’t know the answer, of course, but I do know that, despite being in her late teens, my own trans-identifying kid has never even kissed anyone, boy or girl. She mistrusts her body, likely because she hasn’t yet become acquainted with it. Yet she’s suddenly sure that she wants to undergo radical sex change surgery, which, along with a host of other irreversible somatic changes wrought by cross-sex hormones, will destroy her chances of ever experiencing sexual fulfillment, whilst massively reducing the dating pool of potential partners of either sex.

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Fair enough points but ever consider that a risk factor for trooning out might be having a parent who has intrusive thoughts about whether or not you ever orgasmed?

This generation, thanks to lockdown, the internet, and parental fears of ‘stranger danger’, stages its teen rebellion indoors. My own generation’s learning curve was a messier business, involving flesh and blood interactions—underage drinking, clumsy snogging and fumbling in the back row of the cinema, smoking weed together on the school field, going to gigs and nightclubs, sneaking back into the house at 3 am. We parents of trans-identifying kids ought to feel relieved then, after all, we know that our loved ones are ‘safe’ in their bedrooms and not about to announce an unwanted pregnancy or a substance addiction.

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Or having a parent who wistfully recollects going out and "snogging" and realizes it's probably not good to keep you locked in your bedroom using the interwebs but...does it anyways?

She then goes on and on about internalized misogyny and yada yada yada. But closes with this:

I suspect, though, that she is not really not all that ‘okay’ with her sexuality; that she’s running away from it with the encouragement of YouTube and a group of virtual ‘friends’ on social media; and most of all, that she would rather annihilate her sexed body than come to terms with it, first by herself and later on, with a loving partner of her choice.

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Ma'am did it ever occur to you that maybe she's uncomfortable with her sexuality because you're planted in the middle of it taking notes?

Enmeshment really is an underappreciated aspect of trooning out. Speaking of taking notes though, let's look at this buffoon who has a two-parter. From part one, Beware of Sending Your Smart Kids to College:

In August 2021 we cheerfully prepared for our youngest son to head off to college. His first real time away

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Alrighty...

Fast forward six weeks, in early October: I was notified of a health center charge incurred two days before his 18th birthday. I questioned him, because he hadn’t mentioned any injuries or illnesses.

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Of course he'd need to call mommy if he got a cold or a bruise, and if he didn't, she's going to call him to ask uncomfortable questions. Normal shit.

Every Google search resulted in the directive to affirm, affirm, affirm. I felt abandoned and alone. Help was nowhere to be found. His pediatrician of 18 years, while he admitted this never came up during annual exams, offered minimal support and directed me to our local university gender clinic. He also suggested I speak with the head of the local Pediatric Neurology unit of the Children’s Hospital. She had some good info, but also ridiculous ideology. She questioned our family communication skills, targeted our choice of Catholic grade school and high school as likely the reason our son never came forward, and tried to assuage my worry by stating that this process will be slow. Then she said two things – one incensed me and the other brought me to tears. I felt a surge of fury when I asked why the meteoric rise in children suddenly deciding they are transgender and she answered “No – there is no explosion of these kids. We have just learned to honor them.” Then the tears poured out of me when she recommended, I NOT go to my son’s university to talk one-on-one with him: “I would NOT recommend you do that; it is just way too risky!” She made me question my ability as his mom to TALK WITH MY SON!

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I'm getting the sense that this woman may tend a little towards the histrionic and needy. Calling some chief of neurology is both random and Upper Middle Class Extra to an extreme- what was random neuro doc supposed to do anyhow?

Needless to say I got in my car and went to him. We talked, I took notes, and probed and prodded to try to understand what was going on.

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Honestly if I was him this would push me closer to 41% than anything else.

So his care is being bungled by the college health team and he's getting indoctrinated by the genderists at college:

I could go on and on at the negligence of this alleged medical clinician, whom my son continuously referred to as “Doctor” so-and-so despite her being a Nurse Practitioner, not a doctor, who had been at the Health Center for a year, and whose previous employer was…wait for it…Planned Parenthood.

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And yet:

We made the hard decision to decline to continue to pay for his college for second semester. It was a tough choice, but the lesser of two evils.

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Uh huh. Better a trooned out freak of an ex-son than a burger flipper or contractor, after all.

Right. Social climbing piece of shit "parents."

Here is her sequel post where she berates the affirming and enabling moms without a shred of self-reflection.

From the comments section of the Sex and ROGD link:

However. I used to *be* a super-awkward teenage girl, I did go through a few years of deliberate, calculated "ugly" (see above comments) in order to avoid the highschool/college "dating" scene, and if trans had been a thing when I was that age, I'd have been vulnerable to it. I was also extremely secretive with my parents. Not because I was getting into anything bad (quite the opposite!-- never drank, never tried drugs, didn't hang out with a bad crowd), but because my mother had an absolutely terrible track record of respecting our privacy, and anything I said to her could and would be used to attack or embarrass me in the future. I had had quite enough of telling my mom something mildly embarrassing (and what *isn't* mildly embarrassing at that age?), and then having her repeat it, as a "funny anecdote" in front of other adults, often within my hearing. With her, NOTHING WAS PRIVATE.

So when I encounter the idea in these comboxes that, basically, "children shouldn't have any privacy"... I'm horrified. I know all parents aren't the same as my parents, and there are probably all sorts of families out there, but gosh, have you ever asked yourself if maybe there's a *reason* your kid doesn't trust you with the intimate details of his/her private life? How well have you respected your kid's privacy in the past? Do you tell cute little stories about them to their relatives and your church friends, without considering whether the child actually *wants* the whole freaking world to know that? Has the child ever shared something private with you, that you then used to punish them, or gain emotional leverage over them?

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This Yarrow chick gets it. Especially how overbearing (read: narcissistic) mothers create and further drag down social awkward kids. Narc moms create ChrisChans.

side note, there seems to be a lot of "narc mom" stories but barely any "narc dad" stories

why is that? my guess is that most narc dads are too selfish to stay with their families in the first place, so instead of "ruined by narc dad" stories they create "ruined by absent father" stories

raritycat said:

From the comments section of the Sex and ROGD link:



This Yarrow chick gets it. Especially how overbearing (read: narcissistic) mothers create and further drag down social awkward kids. Narc moms create ChrisChans.

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Very very true. The overriding theme with narcissistic parents is an inability to regard the kids as whole, valid human beings on their own. This comes in many forms with common ones I see being a failure to respect privacy even up to and across the line of committing emotional or even physical incest; failure to accept that the child has a different religious, political, or philosophical view than the parent and becoming abusive and destructive when confronted with this reality; failure to accept the child's true abilities, interests, talents, and/or lack thereof- they'd force a deaf kid to become a concert pianist if that's what they had their heart set on before conceiving the poor bastard.

DumbDude42 said:

side note, there seems to be a lot of "narc mom" stories but barely any "narc dad" stories

why is that? my guess is that most narc dads are too selfish to stay with their families in the first place, so instead of "ruined by narc dad" stories they create "ruined by absent father" stories

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You're probably right about that. I mean "single mom" is definitely a trope in a lot of the trooning out stories you see. Also the one above where the detransitioned guy's dad was supposedly an autistic engineer, I kind of see a two narc or at least two cluster b marriage dynamic between the lines in that one. Dad was cheating on mom long term, then became aggressive when called out. But mom fled at that point not to a sister or friend but "future step dad's house." Big hmm. Sounds like mutual cheating, constant drama, and then the guy mentions his mom is needy af and always asking for attention and validation. Sounds like a Double B couple, classic.

What's In A Name

It seems so obvious that there is a sense of safety in distancing yourself from the female and opting to become male. Is this a way to avoid being objectified? You become the one objectifying women and girls when I watch you on our vacation snickering with your sister about how “hot” a passing girl or woman is. It’s stunning to me. How can you be acting like a gender stereotype that, you tell me, is a social construct?

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I don't know, lady... maybe it's a way for your dykey daughters to express their attraction to women despite you acting like a shrieking harpy having a heart attack every five minutes. Enthusiastic consent doesn't always look like shyly inching your fingers into the hand of another. Sometimes it sounds like "NICE JUGS!"

Also, on the headline: Western Chinks have it right when it comes to giving their kids multiple names. Having both a traditional family name as their legal and then a "white" name to get them ahead in life. This writer doesn't even have the balls to say what her daughter's "dead name" is. None of the commenters do. Chances are it's something especially retarded like "Breighlyn" that would only get her as far as customer service.

I want you to know that you and your female body are perfect.

There is nothing “wrong” with you. Whoever is telling you that is a liar. I am your mom and I will never lie to you.

You don’t seem happier. The antidepressants that you so desperately wanted don’t seem to have much of an effect. I think this is because your body doesn’t really need them.

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There may be nothing "wrong" with her, but you certainly insinuate that there's something wrong with her conduct earlier in your sob piece. Keep it consistent, Mary.

raritycat said:

What's In A Name




Also, on the headline: Western Chinks have it right when it comes to giving their kids multiple names. Having both a traditional family name as their legal and then a "white" name to get them ahead in life. This writer doesn't even have the balls to say what her daughter's "dead name" is. None of the commenters do. Chances are it's something especially retarded like "Breighlyn" that would only get her as far as customer service.

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One of them I was just looking at, can't remember which, the mom admitted that the girl was named after her. Now ok that may be traditional in some families. But when it's not, oof. And even when it is it can be a lot for a kid to handle, especially if the parent they're named after is a piece of work in other ways.

Looking through the comments on that blog, there are some real bonafide perverts:





Uncomfortable.

raritycat said:

What's In A Name

I don't know, lady... maybe it's a way for your dykey daughters to express their attraction to women despite you acting like a shrieking harpy having a heart attack every five minutes. Enthusiastic consent doesn't always look like shyly inching your fingers into the hand of another. Sometimes it sounds like "NICE JUGS!"

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They don't sound like dykes at all.

You love to watch anime with your non-binary identified sister (who doesn’t want to be referred to as a sister anymore) and talk about how “gay” everything is all the time. I know there is a connection between wanting to distance yourself from the objective reality of your female body and the fascination with all things being “gay”. It seems so obvious that there is a sense of safety in distancing yourself from the female and opting to become male. Is this a way to avoid being objectified? You become the one objectifying women and girls when I watch you on our vacation snickering with your sister about how “hot” a passing girl or woman is.

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Sounds like a pair of aidens mocking the other girls for being "vanilla."

Now even the president I voted for wants me to take you to a gender clinic, inject you with testosterone, and agree to allow you to cut off your healthy breasts.

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I know this line has already been highlighted in the op, but its just so good. I can't help but bring it up again.

We have already compromised on the binder and opted for some several sizes too small sports bras to crush your breasts. Those baggy clothes are swallowing you up. You try to talk in a deep voice and act like a “boy”.

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By "we" does she mean her and her husband or partner?

You were so strong and confident—fast and proud. You felt so sure of yourself until your body betrayed you. Your breasts made you cripplingly self-conscious and some extra weight around your hips and thighs just slowed you down.

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So she's overweight. Otherwise that shouldn't be an issue.

It’s stunning to me. How can you be acting like a gender stereotype that, you tell me, is a social construct?

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If something is a social contrust, it means it isn't a law set in stone. It's like an article of clothing. Or a part in a play. Anybody can do it.

Your hair is shorter now but you would like it to completely cover your face and be even shorter. You want to hide. You want to disappear but yet this seems to draw more attention to you. All of this is fine with me. You are free to dress and wear your hair however you like.

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And there it is. You indulged in gender non-comformity and now you've lost your daughters. You reap what you sow.

Sometimes I think I might even be ok with the new name but I cannot bring myself to utter it. I sometimes try when I’m alone and I just can’t do it. You say that’s all you need to be happy in the whole world. You beg me to say it. I am always disappointing and “misgendering” you.

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So upset your daughter is gone and yet you can't make up your mind.

Your 9 year old brother misses his sisters and is confused by all of this.

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Still no mention of the father. If there even is one.

It’s not easy being a girl or a woman or a teenager. It’s not supposed to be easy when we are pushing boundaries, growing and learning about ourselves.

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And your daughters are pushing the ultimate boundary. You should be proud. You helped to cause this. Reap dear.

LurkNoMore said:

They don't sound like dykes at all.


Sounds like a pair of aidens mocking the other girls for being "vanilla."


I know this line has already been highlighted in the op, but its just so good. I can't help but bring it up again.


By "we" does she mean her and her husband or partner?


So she's overweight. Otherwise that shouldn't be an issue.


If something is a social contrust, it means it isn't a law set in stone. It's like an article of clothing. Or a part in a play. Anybody can do it.



And there it is. You indulged in gender non-comformity and now you've lost your daughters. You reap what you sow.


So upset your daughter is gone and yet you can't make up your mind.


Still no mention of the father. If there even is one.


And your daughters are pushing the ultimate boundary. You should be proud. You helped to cause this. Reap dear.

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Agree it sounds like Gaydens mocking "normie square Staceys" rather than lesbians overwhelmed with admiration or desire.

The mom agrees that developing "slowed down" her daughter. It's 50/50 whether it means the kid became overweight or the mom just also has a complex about being female- I'll wager the latter is a factor just from the rest of the post though.

The much younger 9 year old brother makes me wonder if a divorce and remarriage and new family is part of the picture (so half-brother). That kind of thing is hell for kids a lot of the time but adults shrug it off as no big deal these days.

Also one of the Gaydens in my real life circles comes from a family that is simultaneously very liberal including a "feminist man" dad, and where mom was completely obsessed with having a son but developed fertility issues after having daughters. She eventually got the son and he's a complete little shit- but there's a lot of other psychological and psychiatric disaster going on with these people. Wish I could elaborate they are personal lolcows of mine, but too easily identifiable.

Today's post Layers of Sadness has a few mentions of dad in it. I feel kind of bad for this one, as it does seem like they at least tried to be a nice normal family and the kid trooned out anyhow. I always read with extreme suspicion though and you'll notice they are still sending the kid to the expensive school where he's getting trooned out. The weakness affluent Americans have around Muh KOLLLEDGE is a real achilles heel.

And the extreme self-pity gets a bit much. I may read too much between the lines but this sure sounds like an overbearing, insufferable affluenza mom:

A month ago, I faced my fear, and opened the door to my son’s bedroom. I sat on his bed, looked at his posters still tacked on the walls, and endured another wave of grief. To cope, I decluttered. Since this horror began, decluttering helps lighten the load. My mind was numb during hours consolidating my son’s stuff. The worst part was his laundry basket filled with the khaki pants and polos he wore before his awful stereotypical female wardrobe. Do I launder them? Do I give them away? I folded and returned them unwashed to his dresser and closet, feeling grim and sad.

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Larry David's Opera Cape said:

Today's post Layers of Sadness has a few mentions of dad in it. I feel kind of bad for this one, as it does seem like they at least tried to be a nice normal family and the kid trooned out anyhow. I always read with extreme suspicion though and you'll notice they are still sending the kid to the expensive school where he's getting trooned out. The weakness affluent Americans have around Muh KOLLLEDGE is a real achilles heel.

And the extreme self-pity gets a bit much. I may read too much between the lines but this sure sounds like an overbearing, insufferable affluenza mom:

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"To cope, I decluttered."

This is suburban white mom for "I don't respect other people's boundaries and snoop through their shit under the guise of cleaning."

"The worst part was his laundry basket filled with the khaki pants and polos he wore before his awful stereotypical female wardrobe."

So you had your kid dress like a dork throughout his teenage years and now you wonder why he expresses himself as a crossdresser? Most high schools have public instagrams these days that showcase some of their more accomplished/socially well-adjusted students if you want insight into how kids actually dress, Linda.

He says it feels like a knife in the back that his son disregards his parents’ guidance instead deferring to the trans cult. He feels rejected as a male role model, another layer of sadness. I tell him the cult could have snatched our daughter instead. He gets it, but this doesn’t change that his precious son was stolen.

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My daughter: Two years older than Mark, she and her brother were buddies growing up. She misses her brother. She misses our close family. Fixated on his female fantasy, Mark has threatened to shun his sister if she cannot endorse his delusion. With her peers as well, my daughter worries she will be canceled if she does not speak enthusiastically about her brother as her “sister.” I’m sad that she is caught in the crossfire of gender ideology.

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Mark is an exceptionally intelligent, quirky person with a great smile. He has a history of speech delay, affect dysregulation, anxiety, constrained food preferences, rigidity, and difficulty making friends. He is likely on the autistic spectrum. He was unlucky to be a teenager in the digital age when this social contagion spread. In high school, he flirted with the trans cult, but my husband and I thought we had helped him find his way back to material reality. Of course, his anxiety has not magically gone away with wrong sex hormones, and an SSRI joins his mix of daily pills. Mark was a tall teenager on the verge of thriving as a young adult. Today he is a tall, gullible young man who believes his longer hair, small HRT induced breasts, and costume of dresses or skirts fools others. During his formative college years, his mind and body have been hijacked by an evil mind virus that was and continues to be aided and abetted by Planned Parenthood, others institutions, and many gaslit people. It’s terribly sad.

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There's so much to unpack here. Your son clearly has autism and yet, instead of pursuing a diagnosis for it and getting him a psychologist that specializes in that and an occupational therapist, you instead ignore it and get him to shut up about his gender feels. Also, no, your daughter would not have been snatched up in the "cult" because she clearly has actual friends (although maybe not ones she can be authentic with, but at least enough to have had a real life so far at 21). Also, she's 21 and likely just finished college- she can find a job and make less woke friends.

Yeah, on the surface they seem like nice people, but the reality is that this was a kid with no real friends whose only memories of being included with peers were when he played with his sister and her friends. Of course he wants her life- nobody wants to hang out with some gangly autist. And his likely autistic father did him no favours by not helping him make friends with other robot nerds and telling you to fuck off every time you bought your special little boy a new outfit from Old Navy.

raritycat said:

"To cope, I decluttered."

This is suburban white mom for "I don't respect other people's boundaries and snoop through their shit under the guise of cleaning."

"The worst part was his laundry basket filled with the khaki pants and polos he wore before his awful stereotypical female wardrobe."

So you had your kid dress like a dork throughout his teenage years and now you wonder why he expresses himself as a crossdresser? Most high schools have public instagrams these days that showcase some of their more accomplished/socially well-adjusted students if you want insight into how kids actually dress, Linda.


Yeah, on the surface they seem like nice people, but the reality is that this was a kid with no real friends whose only memories of being included with peers were when he played with his sister and her friends. Of course he wants her life- nobody wants to hang out with some gangly autist. And his likely autistic father did him no favours by not helping him make friends with other robot nerds and telling you to fuck off every time you bought your special little boy a new outfit from Old Navy.

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Yeah the "decluttering" seemed like a word chosen to hide that she was doing something else. It's such a dorky ass word to use in the context of a heartfelt appeal. You're probably right she was rooting around his stuff, and it wasn't the first time. In the guise of "caretaking" of course, but really with the motive of being controlling.

Larry David's Opera Cape said:

Yeah the "decluttering" seemed like a word chosen to hide that she was doing something else. It's such a dorky ass word to use in the context of a heartfelt appeal. You're probably right she was rooting around his stuff, and it wasn't the first time. In the guise of "caretaking" of course, but really with the motive of being controlling.

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Some other choice quotes that really highlight this:

my 19 year old son walked from his college campus

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My empty nest is soiled.

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My mind was numb during hours consolidating my son’s stuff.

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So Mark doesn't live with you guys and yet he has hours worth of dirty clothes to launder in his old room? How exactly does it take you hours to pick up a laundry basket, move it to your washing machine, and shove it all in? Were you sniffing the crotch? Or are these the types of people who think it's totally fine to give your kid's your underwear to wear when they run out because "we're family" instead of teaching them to do their own laundry? Anything he would want to hide from you, he would take to college with him. Seriously, if he moved out almost two years ago, there shouldn't be anything you need to "declutter" unless you have no life and need to create drama for no reason.

Absolutely based OP for raising this topic to Kiwi Farms. I for one find it pretty funny when narcissistic parents see the effects of their abuse on their children and then go, “How did THAT happen?”

Don’t worry, karens and uh…we really need to find a moniker for dad-karens. Richards? Davids? Anyways, don’t worry one bit because video games and dolls are to blame.

Snusmumriken said:

Absolutely based OP for raising this topic to Kiwi Farms. I for one find it pretty funny when narcissistic parents see the effects of their abuse on their children and then go, “How did THAT happen?”

Don’t worry, karens and uh…we really need to find a moniker for dad-karens. Richards? Davids? Anyways, don’t worry one bit because video games and dolls are to blame.

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Maybe the male word for Karen can be Darren? I mean, it rhymes after all…

Haha I found the motherlode. Pun intended. @raritycat will enjoy some of these. Site is older, seems semi-abandoned (updated in 2020ish) but has lots of material. It has the 50 year old Karen who has a Pottery Barn store card aesthetic down pat, too:



These all sound like they could have been written by the same person. By the end of this thread I expect we could cobble together an extremely accurate predictor tool for screening mothers whose kids are at risk of trooning out. Where to start with this treasure trove of lulz? Let's start with this one. It starts with a long, self-indulgent rhapsody about the child's birth and the mother "luxuriating in motherhood"- women who use that phrase are trying to warn you. Then we turn to some obvious developmental problems Karen didn't want to look at because it shattered her little fantasy:

She was a happy child. She didn’t walk until she was almost two, but she talked before she was one. Amazingly, she seemed to be able to read, too! Sometimes she would not follow directions or do what we asked. I often worried about it and took her to the doctor. My worries were good naturedly dismissed, and I tried to let it go...

Things seemed fine until about the 3rd grade, when the teacher recommended that she have an evaluation done by the academic support team. We were shocked. We had grown accustomed to viewing her as “gifted” because of her reading and vocabulary skills...

It seemed to me that the school was suggesting that Anna was “retarded” and did not belong in the core knowledge school we had her enrolled in. I became infuriated and pulled her out of academic support...

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Next some gross oversharing about the child's body:

She got her period in the 3rd grade and had terrible cramps. She was chubby and had breast tissue forming, and pubic and under-arm hair. I anguished at the unfairness of this physical maturity in my little daughter as she hugged and cried with her dolls and stuffed animals during her painful periods. Again, we were told all of this was normal. I internally berated myself for my poor genes, my bad upbringing, my divorce and anything else I could think of

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Wait this is the first mention of the divorce. What divorce? At the start of this it was we, we, we and Karen staying home full time. Then he just disappears. Odd.

At this time other children seemed not to like her anymore, and the 5th grade was really the last time that she ever truly had a friend. Most of the time, she didn’t seem to mind. I was her best friend. It was a privilege, a joy and an honor that I am so glad I recognized, never dreaming that one day she would estrange herself from me.

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oh dear GOD

She became enamored with Louis Armstrong, and then the Beatles. Her interest in the Beatles was intense, it really seemed that she was satisfied and did not really care most of the time that she didn’t have friends. She was interested in vintage clothes. Occasionally, she would start to feel down, wishing to belong to the group of girls at school with the smooth hair, the thin bodies, and the crowds of boys around them. “The Flippity-do-dahs,” we called them, because of the way that they would flip their hair to get male attention.

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Do tell us more...

I’d sit on my nightly perch on her bed in her teenage room, surrounded by the Beatles, and wipe the tears off of her lovely cheeks, rolling from her angelically clear, light-colored eyes. “Teach me how to be like them,” she’d say. And so, we would talk for a long time about how it could be done, and practice flipping our hair. Then, the next morning, she would clomp down the stairs, wearing Chuck Taylor All-Stars, a 1950-esque dress, and a men’s letter jacket. “I decided to just be myself,” she’d laugh. “Yes!” I’d cheer wildly, proud of my wildflower, my unique and special young woman.

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....

We visited colleges, including the Evergreen State College. “These are my people, Mom!” I looked around, and saw that she was right. There were no flippity-do-dahs, no football team. no rich, white, Republican kids. Just different looking kids with angel-eyes accompanied by their fierce mothers and bewildered fathers. The professors were clearly well-educated academics, in their worn sweaters and shoes with the run-down heels. They promised the best liberal arts education that money could buy. I was impressed with their passion, their belief in what they were doing, and their ability to embrace and see the center of each of these young people, who had grown accustomed to recoil and avoidance. “OK,” I said.
I’ll never forget the day that I drove away in my rented Prius, crying hard, watching Anna wave wildly, a big grin on her face. “You did it!” I yelled aloud in the car
And I drove away. Not knowing that I would lose my child to a cult called transgenderism.

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Lady, you could not have set her up for it better if you'd tried.

Things began to rapidly decline and become difficult. She became depressed, obese and angry. She was rude, sloppy and thoughtless. She started Citalopram. She told me to stop texting her so much. She said she was trans, wanted to take hormones and get top-surgery and that “she” was now “them”. She changed her name to a cartoon name, and claimed she finally felt like herself, an "FTM" gay trans man. “Ok,” we said, “Just go slow, be careful. We love you.”
The week after Anna graduated, she dumped us. She was no longer dependent on us for tuition. We’ve never seen her since. That was two years ago.

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Who wouldn't dump her/them?

According to her social media, I am a devil, an abuser and a traumatizer. She claims she has PTSD from her childhood, because of me.

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Well there's three sides to every story- what the BPD smother mother says, what the BPD troon thot says, and the earnest God-given truth.

I have to hope that because my cells grew her cells, she can still feel that love. And I hope that someday they will magnetize her back to me, in whatever form she decides to be.
I miss her essence. I just miss her.

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Essence. Shudder.

@Larry David's Opera Cape , why did you not quote the best part from the beginning?

Anna was well overdue, and I had a long labor followed by an urgent c-section. Despite this, and a double wrapped nuchal cord, all seemed well aside from a hip subluxation for which she wore a Pavlich harness for several months.

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A double wrapped nuchal cord elevates the risk for impaired fetal growth.

She met a sweet young African American boyfriend that made us laugh. They seemed like a pair of angels despite their out-spoken activism and intelligence. One day, Anna let me know that her boyfriend wanted to start wearing some of her dresses—and then that he was “trans”.

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Little Miss Anna seemed to have gotten it in her head that she was dating her gay, black friend. Also, notice how the mom underhandedly associates stupidity with good behaviour. The daughter got into The Evergreen State College which has an acceptance rate of 98%, while there are other public colleges nearby with a lower acceptance rate (UW, WSU).

She posts profane pictures, lewd comments and suggestions that she is into hooking up. She takes prescriptions, alcohol and marijuana and of course “T”. I fear she is close to homeless, and she uses state aid. Amazingly, they pay for her transition visits, never seeming to question her cognitive abilities or lack of support system, or any other ability to demonstrate that she can take care of herself.

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You were the one who pulled her from SPED and wanted her to be normal. Despite everything, this sounds pretty normal for a woman in her early to mid 20s (minus the trooning out).

I wonder if she knows that I know which of the marks on the outside of my belly are from when I was pregnant with her, and which ones are from her brothers, and that when I see them every morning when I put on my lotion, I remember her. I wonder if she knows that when I close my eyes, I can recall the feel of her hair, the sound of her laugh, or see the birthmark on her leg as quickly and easily as blinking them back open.

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Where the hell were the brothers this entire time and why is this the first mention of them? I guess they were too busy hooking up with the local "Flippity-do-dahs."

~~~

My thoughts:

• So the daughter fell in love with jazz music and music from the 60s, but there was no mention of an attempt to get her music lessons, get her involved in jazz or concert band at school, etc.
  • Linking this to Evergreen, which from what I've heard used to be associated with a strong music scene in the 90s, the daughter could have easily found herself playing for a band with a fake ID to get into bars instead of on the troon train.
• No attempt to actively deal with the weight issue in any meaningful way (getting her involved with sports, helping her find active hobbies) or any attempt to get her to make friends with similar girls
• From the sounds of it, she never had any friends to begin with considering she "played alongside" other kids rather than play with them
• The mom complains about how the daughter is nearly homeless, but why was she not working part-time while in high school? Again, she could have worked at a record store or a book store with other teenagers with similar hobbies and interests and building up a resume. Or even having a part-time job while at Evergreen? Google maps shows me that it's a 10 minute bus ride to the nearest mall, 30 minutes to the downtown core of Olympia.
• For all the talks about a "transgender cult," the mother is really dismissive of her own impact in othering her daughter from the other girls. Instead of encouraging her to focus on making friends with the girls who were like her/not like the slutty girls (and fixing her goddamned rat's nest), she created the perfect vessel for the gender ideology
  • Also, note how she can't even bring up one instance of being bullied/othered by these girls. They simply didn't want to be her friend, but remained cordial.

raritycat said:

@Larry David's Opera Cape , why did you not quote the best part from the beginning?



A double wrapped nuchal cord elevates the risk for impaired fetal growth.



Little Miss Anna seemed to have gotten it in her head that she was dating her gay, black friend. Also, notice how the mom underhandedly associates stupidity with good behaviour. The daughter got into The Evergreen State College which has an acceptance rate of 98%, while there are other public colleges nearby with a lower acceptance rate (UW, WSU).



You were the one who pulled her from SPED and wanted her to be normal. Despite everything, this sounds pretty normal for a woman in her early to mid 20s (minus the trooning out).



Where the hell were the brothers this entire time and why is this the first mention of them? I guess they were too busy hooking up with the local "Flippity-do-dahs."

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Yeah there was so much gold in this one- the glowing brag about the black boyfriend, the disappearing husband and brothers, the fact that mom deliberately crippled her socially and academically- it's a lot to take in.

It's really coming together how the liberal, feminist "victim" POV feeds some of these kids' troonery. Some snippets from different Karens:

Caren:

Our daughter has struggled with anxiety and feeling that she is "ugly" since elementary school. She is, of course, not ugly, but she does not fit the current socially preferred appearance for young girls (thin, long legs, straight blonde hair, etc.).

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It's not 1988. Sounds like Caren here is projecting her Malibu Barbie Complex onto her daughter, likely with a million offhand remarks, attitudes, and other ambient noise she will never have the self-awareness to notice or examine.

And unpack THIS mess:

At the end of 6th grade, she "came out" to us as lesbian. While we were, and still are, somewhat skeptical of this as she was only 12 with no real sexual experience, we told her that we completely respected her feelings and that we love and support her no matter what her sexual preference is. Her godparents (our neighbors and best friends) are a lesbian couple with twin girls the same age as our daughter. We even jokingly commented that her being lesbian would be a relief for us since we would not have to worry about teen pregnancy or boys trying to coerce her into things she did not want to do.

She seemed to actually be a little disappointed by our reaction. She seemed to want resistance from us so that she could tell her friends about how awful her parents are. Her interactions and communications with the girls she was dating, as the kids called it, mainly consisted of female teen drama. "I love you so much!" "No, I love you more!" and so on. It is our opinion that many of the girls involved (and perhaps our daughter) found lesbian relationships as a way to engage in the romantic drama that teen girls typically love. The boys their age did not want or know how to engage in this, so relationships with other girls was perfect.

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Next, Faren.

Sophie's body changed from a prepubescent girl to a shapely 5'7" young woman within a short space of time. She had an issue with being seen as a sexual woman. She would become very upset and angry when men would shout lewd comments or honk their horn in the street. She was understandably uncomfortable with unwanted male attention.

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One thing I wonder is why no parents seem to use these incidents as an opportunity to teach situational awareness and risk assessment. Those are security geek terms probably more commonly used by men, but surely adult women who have survived more or less in one piece know how to do these things to some extent even if they don't use those terms. You don't have to take every "hey baby" as a rape threat. You can learn how to assess body language, context, and many other factors to determine which comments represent a red flag of warning and which constitute a mere annoyance or misstep by a clumsy schmoe.

When you teach young girls that EVERY ounce of unbidden male attention is a threat no wonder they lose their minds and slice their boobs off.

But feminists seem real resistant to teaching practical coping and survival skills. Instead they protest that any attempt to triage threats is merely denying rape culture or whatever.

Garen here brags about being avant garde for her gen x:

This mother is far-left, progressive, bisexual and LGBTQ-supporting, but when her own daughter suddenly decided she was transgender at the age of 11, it threw her long-held values and beliefs into question.
Names and identifying details have been changed.

---

Having been a far left progressive my entire life, a bisexual who married another woman before it was legal, I had not given much thought to the recent widespread emergence of trans activism and acceptance other than to think, fantastic, another group gaining civil rights. I vaguely wondered why there were so many trans kids when I had never before heard of this phenomenon in childhood, but I assumed increased visibility came from decreased stigma. I was confident that rigorous psychiatric evaluation must precede any gender reassignment procedures, to address any confounding issues. I celebrated people being accepted for who they are. LGBTQ is my tribe, and social justice is my religion.

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Edgelordery is a young wo/man's game, Garen. You don't get to hog the edge into doddery any more than boomers do. When you define courage as "pushing the envelope," those youngin's are gonna push it out to the next edge beyond your comfort zone.

Haren's story demonstrates this well:

A year ago, when our teen was 14, she told me she was pansexual. After asking what exactly that was, I was fine with it. I'm liberal, open to different lifestyles. "Whatever floats your boat" has always been my motto, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. This announcement came shortly after joining the middle school Gay-Straight Alliance (GSA) as an "ally". She began to act out more and more (outbursts of anger at home for no reason). Fast forward 3 months and she tells us she is a trans female-to-male (FTM).

WHAT?! How?

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Adorable. You let her join the Cool Kids Club as a booster and she figured out pretty quick how to become a Cool Kid Proper instead of just a hanger-on. You don't even dispute that they're the Cool Kids! You just hoped she would only go as far as you did.

Finally Maren, a woman who took up with a lesbian who had a child "with" another lesbian she'd then split up with, is shocked to learn that people who lives outside the bounds of normalcy do abnormal things:

I came into my relationship with my partner, Ana, as an experienced parent. I had raised two daughters and a son. All had experienced various challenges growing up. I supported them during adolescence through different stages of depression, drug use, anxiety, including OCD and Tourette’s Syndrome. Ana had a 4-year old son when I met her and I had no issues with that. Then I learned that this child’s other mother had declared to the world that he was female at the age of three. At first, like many of us who have believed ourselves to be tolerant of differences, I couldn’t fathom that it was anything so terrible. Our green city was hip after all, and the environment with which to raise children was considered excellent. Then, I met little Paulo and my coherent, liberal, confident mind was instantly rattled. This was no transgender girl.

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Odd that a little boy deliberately raised fatherless might have issues around his sex, and want to emulate his mother and her girlfriends, and that the deranged misandrist mother might encourage it, with the support of her professional cohort, likely chosen from the "womyn loving womyn" gay yellow pages:

From the age of three, Paulo’s overly-zealous mum stated that “Mira” was trans and only wanted female pronouns. She changed his name with the full support of his preschool and told the paediatrician’s office that Paulo was transgender and was now Mira. They accepted this without question.


The preschool taught young children about social justice and one of the teachers had a young daughter whom she claimed was a trans male. The teachers read books about children who believed they were the opposite sex and invited the kids to embrace these ideas. There was much fanfare when Mira “came out” to the preschool by way of a newsletter to the school community. Tiny kids who referred to Paulo using male pronouns were corrected.

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