A question about Diablo-type games

[MuuMuu Bunnylips]

(ie: randomly generated dungeons, loot, etcetera)

Was Diablo the very first game to do this sort of thing, or is it simply the best-known example?

 

[Takayuki Yagami]

Best known example that also codified a lot of the stuff most associated with it.

 

[Bob Page]

Didn't invent it but raised the bar in a big way.

 

[NOT Sword Fighter Super]

I know "ET" on the Atari 2600 had randomly generated locations for items.

Never played it, though.

 

[Some Manajerk]

Rouge and Nethack both have randomly generated loot and dungeons and those have been around since the late 80's.

Diablo has the advantage of being owned by Blizzard, and being better known.

 

[Boxy Brown]

There's a whole genre of games with random loot and level generation called "roguelikes" as @Some Manajerk said. They're all turn based so the gameplay is much different. Recently there's been a surge of indie type games that, partly due to Diablo and Rogue, have taken those things and ran with it. They're called "roguelites". If you want to see what roguelikes are all about check out http://brogue.roguelikelike.com or http://crawl.develz.org for a recent rouguelite that came out look up Dead Cells.

 

[Ebonic Tutor]

Hell Diablo was originally supposed to have been turn based it was just during early development somebody asked "Can you make this real time guys?"

The having a permadeath option is homage to Nethack/Rogue of course. In those games once you're dead, you're dead.

"Do you want your possessions identified y/n?" - you get real familiar with that prompt playing those games as well.

 

[Tiem Cahp]

Can anyone elaborate on the hate Diablo 3 gets -- apart from the always online & pay2win shit. I heard alotta people saying how 3 was much more linear and had less customization. I haven't played any previous Diablo or Diablo-like games, but am curious to know what was lost, and what made the old games so special for many people.

 

[Monsieur Guillotine]

Can anyone elaborate on the hate Diablo 3 gets -- apart from the always online & pay2win shit. I heard alotta people saying how 3 was much more linear and had less customization. I haven't played any previous Diablo or Diablo-like games, but am curious to know what was lost, and what made the old games so special for many people.

People were just used to having multiple of the same class with different builds, because that's the way you had to do it in D2. D3 just allows you to change your spec at any time, eliminating the need to ever have more than one of a class. I don't know about the "linear" comment, but I guess that has to do with the fact that most (if not all, I don't remember) of the areas aren't randomly generated.

D3 is just a lot easier than D2 in general, and a lot of old-time fans don't appreciate having their hands held. The game was developed by a completely different dev team, and apparently they had "if games are easier, more people will like them" too far ingrained in their minds from the development of WoW to do anything else.

 

[Goomba]

Can anyone elaborate on the hate Diablo 3 gets -- apart from the always online & pay2win shit. I heard alotta people saying how 3 was much more linear and had less customization. I haven't played any previous Diablo or Diablo-like games, but am curious to know what was lost, and what made the old games so special for many people.

People were just used to having multiple of the same class with different builds, because that's the way you had to do it in D2. D3 just allows you to change your spec at any time, eliminating the need to ever have more than one of a class. I don't know about the "linear" comment, but I guess that has to do with the fact that most (if not all, I don't remember) of the areas aren't randomly generated.

D3 is just a lot easier than D2 in general, and a lot of old-time fans don't appreciate having their hands held. The game was developed by a completely different dev team, and apparently they had "if games are easier, more people will like them" too far ingrained in their minds from the development of WoW to do anything else.

Another thing for me was the overall design. D3 looks too cartoonish. D2 had a darker, cruddier feel to it. Especially the armours, while not as customizable, looked more realistic (for a fantasy game at least) than the goofy oversized shit from D3. Its like Diablo: WoW-Style.

Spoiler: D3

Spoiler: D2

 

[Red Hood]

Rogue and Angband etc. came first. Diablo added realtime gameplay, and some nice graphics and atmosphere. Basically blended roguelike elements with gameplay from Gauntlet or Zelda.

 

[MuuMuu Bunnylips]

People were just used to having multiple of the same class with different builds, because that's the way you had to do it in D2. D3 just allows you to change your spec at any time, eliminating the need to ever have more than one of a class. I don't know about the "linear" comment, but I guess that has to do with the fact that most (if not all, I don't remember) of the areas aren't randomly generated.

D3 is just a lot easier than D2 in general, and a lot of old-time fans don't appreciate having their hands held. The game was developed by a completely different dev team, and apparently they had "if games are easier, more people will like them" too far ingrained in their minds from the development of WoW to do anything else.

Hey, but we get more of Deckard CheeseCain, so it's not all bad.

 

[Haramburger]

Angband

my nigga.

 

[Orkeosaurus]

Can anyone elaborate on the hate Diablo 3 gets -- apart from the always online & pay2win shit. I heard alotta people saying how 3 was much more linear and had less customization. I haven't played any previous Diablo or Diablo-like games, but am curious to know what was lost, and what made the old games so special for many people.

I think Diablo 3 hate originates more around circa 2012-2013 when it actually did suck. The campaign was short as hell and there wasn't that much end-game material beyond trying to get max stat items. There was also the auction house which meant that some people spent thousands of dollars on items. And then there were the lore-spergs, but really who cares about the lore of Diablo.

Most everything was fixed with the expansion. Personally I think Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls influenced WoW to a great degree with Mythic+ runs essentially being a copy of Greater Rifts from Diablo, and the new WoW transmog system being similar.

 

[Polyboros]

Can anyone elaborate on the hate Diablo 3 gets -- apart from the always online & pay2win shit. I heard alotta people saying how 3 was much more linear and had less customization. I haven't played any previous Diablo or Diablo-like games, but am curious to know what was lost, and what made the old games so special for many people.

Personally my biggest problem with Diablo 3 has always been that skill damage is based on a percentage of weapon damage.

Gear was always important, but D2 had several builds that were much much less gear intensive. Combined with the fact that every skill can be freely switched, it made building up every character feel exactly the same. I've not played since the Necro was introduced.

 

[Boxy Brown]

Always online sucks cocks. It only takes one hardcore lag-spike death to turn someone off the game. I've been thinking of getting it on console but I can't bring myself to buy the game twice. Witch Doctor was cool though.

 

[Red Hood]

I think Diablo 3 hate originates more around circa 2012-2013 when it actually did suck. The campaign was short as hell and there wasn't that much end-game material beyond trying to get max stat items. There was also the auction house which meant that some people spent thousands of dollars on items. And then there were the lore-spergs, but really who cares about the lore of Diablo.

Most everything was fixed with the expansion. Personally I think Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls influenced WoW to a great degree with Mythic+ runs essentially being a copy of Greater Rifts from Diablo, and the new WoW transmog system being similar.

My biggest issue with D3 had nothing to do with the gameplay. It WAS too easy, but ultimately it was the atmosphere that killed the game for me. D1 and D2 were creepy, threatening games wheras D3 was full on heroic fantasy.

 

[Takayuki Yagami]

People were just used to having multiple of the same class with different builds, because that's the way you had to do it in D2. D3 just allows you to change your spec at any time, eliminating the need to ever have more than one of a class. I don't know about the "linear" comment, but I guess that has to do with the fact that most (if not all, I don't remember) of the areas aren't randomly generated.

D3 is just a lot easier than D2 in general, and a lot of old-time fans don't appreciate having their hands held. The game was developed by a completely different dev team, and apparently they had "if games are easier, more people will like them" too far ingrained in their minds from the development of WoW to do anything else.

In light of the fact that it’s a different dev team, how do diablofags generally feel about the Torchlight games? It’s made by a guy that made a Diablo clone who actively sought out the original Diablo devs.

Edit:Similar question for Grim Dawn, which kind if has D2’s grungy aesthetic going on without some of Path of Exiles incredably overwrought shit.

 

[Webby's Boyfriend]

Does "Torchlight" count as an example? It was kind of boring, one can just run around and kill random monsters.

 

[XYZpdq]

I played the shit out of Diablo 2 with buddies casually. Never learned anything about really how to play, just dicked around with hacked items on a lan drunk and having a blast, like a hack and smash dnd game but nobody got stuck having to GM it.
I got Diablo 3 with that "subscribe to WoW for a year get D3 free" thing, so I've never been that assblasted over it's many problems like not working at all when it launched. Seems fun enough that I'll dick around with it between WoW subscriptions.