#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[sickrabbitman]

Evs saying Akira Toriyama is an amateur was one of the most retarded things i ever heard.

Did he seriously say this? What an idiot.

 

[The Coon]

So someone did a bit of investigating and it's showing that Eric is manually putting in the amount he's earning View attachment 3485889

As a web developer with nearly two decades of professional experience, those images mean nothing. Drawing circles around numbers in HTML provides no evidence as to how that HTML, and the numbers it contains, was generated. That's not to say the numbers are for sure manually entered or not; just that there's no evidence that they are from those screenshots. I suspect this guy knows fuck all about web development and is talking out of his ass.

Before I read this, I was already thinking this guy has to have a reason to try this hard, and now after your explanation about how his pic means nothing I think this guy is part of the jealous crowd. I have not seen this guy in the normal Anti-CG circles so I looked him up on Twitter. He is a crowdfund comic writer that has done 3 comic Kickstarter campaigns raising $28,381 and 982 backers combined. Im not saying that I believe 100% that Rippa didnt fudge his numbers, but I am in the camp of "why would he need to". I think Charlie here is in the "Im jealous of this new upstart that I just heard about and my woke friends told me he is bad" crowd.

 

[Yosha]

Did he seriously say this? What an idiot.

it was on one of the jda's streams like a month ago. I think it was when the Ernst drama was beginning. And they were looking at Liam's video, which had a picture of the new DB movie and Evs was like ''Ughh, Dragon ball art is so amateurish...''... Like, its fine if you don't like the art, but calling it amateur level is pretty stupid.

 

[A Meme to Power]

One of the reasons Rekt Planet did so well was because he held the campaign open almost longer than it was supposed to take to deliver the book. For Part 3 to do as well it'll need to be just as late? I'm sure it'll do well for modern CG campaign standards but will be surprised if it approaches Pt2 numbers.

"frog gained 5000 backer after the campaign closed, therefore he is going to do poorly"

ya ok whatever you want... at this point its clear to me that you're looking for things to support your short memory driven opinion, and I don't particularly care about your expert opinions on frogs indiegogo campaigns. You're just one of his hateful orbiters, it appears.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

"frog gained 5000 backer after the campaign closed, therefore he is going to do poorly"

ya ok whatever you want... at this point its clear to me that you're looking for things to support your short memory driven opinion, and I don't particularly care about your expert opinions on frogs indiegogo campaigns. You're just one of his hateful orbiters, it appears.

I was one of his biggest supporters here back then Mr. Three-Month-Old account. My memory is fine.

 

[Captain Manning]

Wait, there's bad blood between FNT and CG? I always thought they would get along since they have a common enemy...

IIRC, CG was pretty solidly in the "Jeremy is a retard who got cucked by Zack Snyder" camp. Which probably didn't sit well with Jeremy as they were doing damage control after that fiasco. That whole event spooked FROG enough to where he was adamant that nobody on the left be platformed by CG members from that point forward (i.e. Quartering tried to interview Frosk after the G4 shitshow, and FROG spoke out against it).

it was on one of the jda's streams like a month ago. I think it was when the Ernst drama was beginning. And they were looking at Liam's video, which had a picture of the new DB movie and Evs was like ''Ughh, Dragon ball art is so amateurish...''... Like, its fine if you don't like the art, but calling it amateur level is pretty stupid.

Ethan has had a weird cope with anime and manga for a while now. On the one hand, he thinks most of it is trash (there's admittedly some truth to that), but he also allows for alpha-chad stuff with (in his words) "lots of speed lines."

Which makes his Toriyama comment all the more bizarre. I'm pretty sure most people would agree Dragonball is part of the alpha-chad super=testosterone fight fight fight genre. It's an IP that dates back to the 80s, before mahou shoujo and Seinfeld-esque moé started to clog the market.

In reality, I think Ethan would kill for a fraction of Toriyama's sales figures. What artist wouldn't? I believe there's been approximately 300 million sales of Dragonball tankōbon worldwide.

I also think, to some extent, Ethan is not thrilled with the fact that the American comics industry is being choked to death by manga, and not CG. For every person that defected from DC and Marvel to CG, there's probably a multitude more that gave up on the idea of anything good coming out of America anymore and started reading manga instead.

 

[chalkyresidue]

Which makes his Toriyama comment all the more bizarre. I'm pretty sure most people would agree Dragonball is part of the alpha-chad super=testosterone fight fight fight genre. It's an IP that dates back to the 80s, before mahou shoujo and Seinfeld-esque moé started to clog the market.

I’m sure it messes with his brain to see muscular anatomy rendered in anything other than studiously rendered Gray’s Anatomy fashion. He probably looks at Goku’s pecs and wishes he could get away with drawing a torso like that.

 

[Mister Dongs]

Right now, Rippa is kind of in the middle ground between FNT and CG and that’s not going to last too long because of the bad blood between the two groups. Eventually, I think he is going to go towards the FNT crowd because that’s where most of the fans are and he is not going to play second fiddle to anyone in CG. Not after how successful this campaign is and especially not if it beats Brzrkrr.

It seems Rippa is content to just kick back and let both sides compete for his affection for as long as he can until one side violates the NAP. As he should. Now as for which side is going to do that first, FNT/G+G seems very advantaged in this contest due to them being a bunch of zeroes firmly under the heel/"brand" of two powerful griftlords while, as @Captain Manning points out, CG is an undisciplined leaderless lifeboat, adrift in a sea of churning autism. On the other hand, he does side with Comicsgate's argument of "stop giving your time and money to people that hate you", like when he sided with Frog during the Zack Snyder debacle. Or the whole comic book imprint thing.

Wth...? Seriously? You expect me to believe on average every person that contributed into this campaign paid almost 1,000 dollars? Get real.

You added an extra zero there dividing 1M by 10,000 backers.

Ethan has a weird cope with anime and manga for a while now. On the one hand, he thinks most of it is trash (there's admittedly some truth to that), but he also allows for alpha-chad stuff with (in his words) "lots of speed lines."

That's just Frog being a boomer western comic chauvinist, like nearly all red-blooded American comic fans of his generation were. It's one of his more understandable qualities. Back then (late 80s, early 90s) western comics were at a creative peak they've never been able to achieve before or since while manga consisted of a handful of relatively crude, poorly translated offerings traded among weird otakus at dingy conventions.

Nowadays is a different story as ICv2 reports roll in about how sales for manga went up by 60% in 70% this year alone, hoovering up the young adult audience Marvel and DC spent decades convincing themselves no longer existed as they transitioned into an intellectual property mill for Hollywood. Soon the average American, both consumer and upcoming professional, will have been raised exclusively on manga and anime. Comics in the American-style format, eyes that aren't shiny dinner plates and noses made up of more than two lines, will seem unfamiliar and alien to them as manga will go on to attract the best talent until even American mangaka will be turning out better work than the remaining people eking out an existence in what remains of the legacy American comic industry.

Is this an existential threat for not just him but all traditional comic artists? Yes. Is that why some old comics grognard can't appreciate the artistic genius of 4 billion panels of Goku squatting and yelling? No. The visual language used between manga artists and readers where a few well placed lines can efficiently communicate complex shapes and effects lost on someone who's only into old American comics.

I’m sure it messes with his brain to see muscular anatomy rendered in anything other than studiously rendered Gray’s Anatomy fashion. He probably looks at Goku’s pecs and wishes he could get away with drawing a torso like that.

>90s artist
>unfamiliar with shit anatomy

come on man

 

[Yosha]

In reality, I think Ethan would kill for a fraction of Toriyama's sales figures. What artist wouldn't? I believe there's been approximately 300 million sales of Dragonball tankōbon worldwide.

300+ million tankoubon books, plus a lot of other editions, from the bigger kanzenban and coloring volumes... Also its not just Dragon Ball. Toriyama was a millionaire even before he started that with Dr. Slump that has sold 35M+ tankoubon.... Dragon Ball is also in top 15 of the highest grossing media franshises. I think it just passed Batman. This is especially impressive cause there was no anime/manga from 1996 to 2015... Its pretty much a money making machine that Toriyama created... And if anything, american comic creators, should be looking at Toriyama's fight panels, cause he was a king of that. And i still don't see anyone that does that as well as him since he ''retired''.

here's a solid video that shows, why is his paneling still unmatched.

 

[Xenomorphs Are Cute]

300+ million tankoubon books, plus a lot of other editions, from the bigger kanzenban and coloring volumes... Also its not just Dragon Ball. Toriyama was a millionaire even before he started that with Dr. Slump that has sold 35M+ tankoubon.... Dragon Ball is also in top 15 of the highest grossing media franshises. I think it just passed Batman. This is especially impressive cause there was no anime/manga from 1996 to 2015... Its pretty much a money making machine that Toriyama created... And if anything, american comic creators, should be looking at Toriyama's fight panels, cause he was a king of that. And i still don't see anyone that does that as well as him since he ''retired''.

here's a solid video that shows, why is his paneling still unmatched.

Tori's panelling is too good, his own protégé is learning to this day, alongside many other mangakas. However, American comics in general lack the very ability most of the basic shounen battle mangas have a knowledge of, combat choreography, or as I call it Action, Impact, Reaction (A.I.R.), but that can take it's own comment, I made a whole-ass thesis out of boredom & retardation (I'm proud of it tho), there are some good examples in Western capeshit too, but they're very rare. That said, most Western capeshit comics aren't fun to read even for the basic capeshit things anymore.

Edit: I'll add 2 more things, I'm born on DB more than I am on Western capeshit, so was most my school, I assure you DB is more loved than giving credit for even before comics got pozzed.

Also, DB characters have their own days like Piccolo Day & Gohan Day. Hell, Goku has his own national holiday, You don't see any capeshit character to ever have one, or even any manga character to this day has achieved that.

 

[Fleetwood]

In reality, I think Ethan would kill for a fraction of Toriyama's sales figures. What artist wouldn't? I believe there's been approximately 300 million sales of Dragonball tankōbon worldwide.

300+ million tankoubon books

One thing CG refuses to face is the floppy comic is obsolete twice over to Tankoubon and Graphic Novel TPBs/HCs. Also most of them can't come up with that many pages of work (a few have). While there is a lot of flexing about the content being "pure" from "SJW/ Woke" art and writing, the floppy buying audience is the same that slabs books and buys variant covers, making the interiors and writing irrelevant. This paradox makes the CG target audience tiny and dumb as rocks niche. Collected editions are the max content value and tankoubon the most portable in a society that vaues compact portable things. It's not like they aren't collectible either but it is more of a traditional book market where OOP (out of print) things are valuable and graded condition is less important. I seem to remember a certain Scott Pilgrim even having massive success in that tankoubon format or similar, but these youtubers wouldn't acknowledge that would they... ( insert Brie Larsen sperging ).

 

[Mister Dongs]

Tori's panelling is too good, his own protégé is learning to this day, alongside many other mangakas. However, American comics in general lack the very ability most of the basic shounen battle mangas have a knowledge of, combat choreography, or as I call it Action, Impact, Reaction (A.I.R.), but that can take it's own comment, I made a whole-ass thesis out of boredom & retardation (I'm proud of it tho). Most Western capeshit comics aren't fun to read even for the basic capeshit things anymore.

Yeah that wasn't always the case, but capeshit dumped a lot of its own visual language like sound effects and action lines in the early 00s under Quesada and Didio. The reasoning behind it was that it'd make the comics look "more mature and adult" and was part of a ongoing initiative to make comics look more like cinematic storyboards. In practice this led to a deep decline where "crimefighting" took on the form of shitty crime procedurals, sperging abut Bush and action itself becoming the perfunctory setup for the post-fight zesty one-liner.

 

[Car Won't Crank]

One thing CG refuses to face is the floppy comic is obsolete twice over to Tankoubon and Graphic Novel TPBs/HCs. Also most of them can't come up with that many pages of work (a few have). While there is a lot of flexing about the content being "pure" from "SJW/ Woke" art and writing, the floppy buying audience is the same that slabs books and buys variant covers, making the interiors and writing irrelevant. This paradox makes the CG target audience tiny and dumb as rocks niche. Collected editions are the max content value and tankoubon the most portable in a society that vaues compact portable things. It's not like they aren't collectible either but it is more of a traditional book market where OOP (out of print) things are valuable and graded condition is less important. I seem to remember a certain Scott Pilgrim even having massive success in that tankoubon format or similar, but these youtubers wouldn't acknowledge that would they... ( insert Brie Larsen sperging ).

Yeah I really enjoy omnibus versions too. Currently waiting for Maison Ikkoku box set or omnibus sets. The floppy comics only work in rare cases like the Tintin series or Asterix and Obelix and other BDs. Each cover for the floppy Tintin comics is unique in itself plus the comic itself is big, like A4 paper big.

 

[Xenomorphs Are Cute]

View attachment 3488945

Yeah that wasn't always the case, but capeshit dumped a lot of its own visual language like sound effects and action lines in the early 00s under Quesada and Didio. The reasoning behind it was that it'd make the comics look "more mature and adult" and was part of a ongoing initiative to make comics look more like cinematic storyboards. In practice this led to a deep decline where "crimefighting" took on the form of shitty crime procedurals, sperging abut Bush and action itself became the perfunctory setup for the post-fight zesty one-liner.

Exactly, there multiple examples ranging from fairly serviceable to absolutely awesome when it comes to A.I.R. in Western comics. But as I said, they're very rare when compared to manga which came decades later capeshit.

Here's my personal favourite example of Western A.I.R. capekino. IDK where it's from (I know it's Moon Knight), but something in me knows it's nearly 2 decades old. I have more examples, but this is my favorite.

 

[Yosha]

That Cap panel is from the early 60's and the MoonKnight is from the early 80's. Not Tori level, but still much, much better than anything we see today. It's as if Japanese mangaka's went into this action style, just when the american comics stopped doing it.
Idk who, but someone once told me that reading a manga is like watching a full movie, while reading a comic is like looking at just some nice scenes from the movie.

 

[Fleetwood]

Yeah I really enjoy omnibus versions too. Currently waiting for Maison Ikkoku box set or omnibus sets. The floppy comics only work in rare cases like the Tintin series or Asterix and Obelix and other BDs. Each cover for the floppy Tintin comics is unique in itself plus the comic itself is big, like A4 paper big.

I don't consider BD albums a floppy, aren't they mostly hardcovers? It's just another format making the thin american style obsolete. I have been in a comic shop in France and it looks more like a kid's bookstore full of hardcovers than an american style store with the newstand racks, boxes of back issues, toys, and junk merch.

Exactly, there multiple examples ranging from fairly serviceable to absolutely awesome when it comes to A.I.R. in Western comics. But as I said, they're very rare when compared to manga which came decades later capeshit.

Here's my personal favourite example of Western A.I.R. capekino. IDK where it's from (I know it's Moon Knight), but something in me knows it's nearly 2 decades old. I have more examples, but this is my favorite.
View attachment 3489033

That's Bill Sienkiewicz, an enemy of Comicsgate so good luck convincing these CG numbskulls to mimic that top quality work.

 

[BlueKnight]

it was on one of the jda's streams like a month ago. I think it was when the Ernst drama was beginning. And they were looking at Liam's video, which had a picture of the new DB movie and Evs was like ''Ughh, Dragon ball art is so amateurish...''... Like, its fine if you don't like the art, but calling it amateur level is pretty stupid.

But DBZ art isn't.... great.

 

[Xenomorphs Are Cute]

That Cap panel is from the early 60's and the MoonKnight is from the early 80's. Not Tori level, but still much, much better than anything we see today. It's as if Japanese mangaka's went into this action style, just when the american comics stopped doing it.
Idk who, but someone once told me that reading a manga is like watching a full movie, while reading a comic is like looking at just some nice scenes from the movie.

This is true, cause in comic's case they try to sell specific pages as pin-ups & posters. Mangas usually never do this, they just usually (I mean skilled ones specifically) make the panel good without specifically trying for it, which leads to it having a natural flow with the other pages. This is most noticeable in Shounen battle mangas.

But the point of the Moon Knight example is that you don't have to work extra hard to make heads & toes of which starts from where. Your eyes naturally know where to start from, & naturally follows MK from start to end. That's not even an A.I.R. example, as much as it's how to do godly panelling & pacing.

Now compare it to this:

Now look at this shit. 3 panels, 3 different attacks with nothing to make it flow together. It doesn't look like they're moving, it doesn't look like they're hurting or even impacting each other. That's not even talking about all that dialogue, why do we need this much for a single kick?

I don't consider BD albums a floppy, aren't they mostly hardcovers? It's just another format making the thin american style obsolete. I have been in a comic shop in France and it looks more like a kid's bookstore full of hardcovers than an american style store with the newstand racks, boxes of back issues, toys, and junk merch.

That's Bill Sienkiewicz, an enemy of Comicsgate so good luck convincing these CG numbskulls to mimic that top quality work.

I'm meritocratic at heart (seprate art from artist, & all that shit), I may never read much, or even any of his work, but I respect his body of work from what I've seen (The MK work). That said, I'm mostly here now to laugh at the r/comicbooks subreddit (seriously, search them on Reveddit, the absolute copium). I don't even have much knowledge on CG apart from the fact that most antis are more retarded that most CG'ers, & that Anna's hot (despite the grifting).

 

[BlueKnight]

Exactly, there multiple examples ranging from fairly serviceable to absolutely awesome when it comes to A.I.R. in Western comics. But as I said, they're very rare when compared to manga which came decades later capeshit.

Here's my personal favourite example of Western A.I.R. capekino. IDK where it's from (I know it's Moon Knight), but something in me knows it's nearly 2 decades old. I have more examples, but this is my favorite.
View attachment 3489033

I can't take any opinion seriously from someone that refers to Western comics as "capeshit." And I love manga. That horrifying MAYnga video was a chore to sit through. At least get the pronunciation right before critiquing shit.

 

[Xenomorphs Are Cute]

I can't take any opinion seriously from someone that refers to Western comics as "capeshit." And I love manga. That horrifying MAYnga video was a chore to sit through. At least get the pronunciation right before critiquing shit.

I refer to ALL Western superhero shit as either capeshit or capekino, it's less awkward sounding than saying superhero films/comics. Movies or comics. I didn't post the video either. Also, you said DB doesn't have good art.