Destiny 2 - Place your bets on how many $40 DLC packs we'll get this time.

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Payday has around 120 unique guns where destiny has over 1000 and has to also deal with the concept of exotics and armor/gun interactions.
No. Destiny has a small number of guns with lots of minor tweaks to numbers. If you're going by that logic, then Payday 2 has a bazillion guns because of all the tweaks you can do by using attachments.

Does anyone else prefer Destiny 1's gameplay despite the console limitations? The slower pace and TTK makes everything feel more engaging whereas in D2 you're speeding past everything way faster. I started a new character and the experience is way better than in Destiny 2. Loot also feels way more meaningful whereas you're showered with too much now.
Destiny 1 was more memorable, and I remember the PS3 version holding up despite the low res textures due to the faster loading times.

I don't think the problem is you're showered with too much (though it's been a while since I played either game). I don't think as many people did Vault of Glass and the other raids as they claimed because getting a group together was pretty much impossible. But Prison of Eldars and Taken King were high points. Gambit was cool, but other than the European Dead Zone and Mars, I struggle to remember any meaningful content or locations from D2.

And finally, new Gambit armor:
I remember Gambit when it launched. It was neat. But then it seemed to drop off after that.
 
D2Marathon0602.jpg
 
No. Destiny has a small number of guns with lots of minor tweaks to numbers. If you're going by that logic, then Payday 2 has a bazillion guns because of all the tweaks you can do by using attachments.
This is correct. Destiny really only has a few dozen guns and the perks effectively function as attachments would in other games. The actual model is irrelevant when the every pulse rifle is a bullpup with the mag and the charging handle in the same locations, etc. Some older scout rifles and snipers did have scope options that changed the model based on which perk was selected, more like traditional attachments. Dunno if they still do this, it hadn't been a thing for a while when I stopped playing. I'd say most weapon types have at best two subtypes under the hood, I'm thinking how hand cannons can be either top break or swing out types.
 
This is correct. Destiny really only has a few dozen guns and the perks effectively function as attachments would in other games. The actual model is irrelevant when the every pulse rifle is a bullpup with the mag and the charging handle in the same locations, etc. Some older scout rifles and snipers did have scope options that changed the model based on which perk was selected, more like traditional attachments. Dunno if they still do this, it hadn't been a thing for a while when I stopped playing.
not for the new guns and some old gear "revmaps" but i'd say that's mostly due to then trying to keep people spinning the loot wheel.
as far as i can tell you, it's curse of osiris and older weapons, case in point duty bound, here's the new revmap version of it:
1780417443703.png
and here's the red war version of it with the changed scope, the scope is the 1st perk:
1780417402252.png
here's another gun, red war era with changed scope:
1780417550272.png
and without it:
1780417573455.png
easy guess bungo didn't want to deal with the spaghetti code too much, legacy armor IV and V that you can find are literally reskins with a few bits here and there to differentiate between crucible, vanguard and gambit, or maybe that's because they lost manpower due to marathon? only they know.

oh and another silly:
1780418278903.png
yes yes i could become retarded and try to premade to play a shitty pinnacle ops that has no matchmaking because bungie is fucking retarded:
1780418376022.png
or... i could go to my collections and pick the gun there:
1780418336954.png
fucking retards.
 
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not for the new guns and some old gear "revmaps" but i'd say that's mostly due to then trying to keep people spinning the loot wheel.
as far as i can tell you, it's curse of osiris and older weapons, case in point duty bound, here's the new revmap version of it:
View attachment 9090449
and here's the red war version of it with the changed scope, the scope is the 1st perk:
View attachment 9090445
here's another gun, red war era with changed scope:
View attachment 9090452
and without it:
View attachment 9090457
easy guess bungo didn't want to deal with the spaghetti code too much, legacy armor IV and V that you can find are literally reskins with a few bits here and there to differentiate between crucible, vanguard and gambit, or maybe that's because they lost manpower due to marathon? only they know.

oh and another silly:
View attachment 9090519
yes yes i could become retarded and try to premade to play a shitty pinnacle ops that has no matchmaking because bungie is fucking retarded:
View attachment 9090529
or... i could go to my collections and pick the gun there:
View attachment 9090521
fucking retards.
With how restrictive perks became in D2, I can understand the eventual move away from selectable sights. There was always some small debate over what types of guns you wanted barrels vs sights on. Sights offered zoom which was a range/accuracy multiplier but barrels offered stability and recoil direction. For most things, I came down on the side of barrels.
 
With how restrictive perks became in D2, I can understand the eventual move away from selectable sights. There was always some small debate over what types of guns you wanted barrels vs sights on. Sights offered zoom which was a range/accuracy multiplier but barrels offered stability and recoil direction. For most things, I came down on the side of barrels.
my point was that the scope change perk exist.
1780423588109.png
don't let the forsaken icon fool you, they use the same base as one of the red war sniper rifles:
1780423517808.png
however the whole barrel thing i do not know, all of the new light weapons don't seem to use perks that change the model for the regular solo free player:
1780423636927.png
raid items i do not know because bungie doesn't let people use the basic bitch matchmaker for them activities... although i'd like to mention that most of the weapon origin perks are absolute fucking ass, even hakke which deals more damage to constructs and shit, they are all terrible.
Whisper isn't even that hard lol just play the mission
no, i want to laugh whenever someone gets killed due to a boss launching them to the stratosphere like it happens in vanguard strikes, yes, even myself.
(i could go solo but bungo says it's too hard, that's irony btw), besides i already did it way back, why do you think i already have the damn thing?
 
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my point was that the scope change perk exist.

however the whole barrel thing i do not know, all of the new light weapons don't seem to use perks that change the model for the regular solo free player:
I don't think I said my piece very well. Even when guns featured scopes instead of barrels in the first column, they were 1) relatively uncommon outside of Y1 weapons and 2) contentious at best because some guns really wanted one or the other and getting the wrong one or God forbid, a bad scope selection could make or break a gun.
It's always scopes or barrels in the first column. My speculation was that it's less work to keep barrels in line which is why they've seemingly pivoted away from using scope perks. I went into light.gg and looked up a few random sniper scope perks and the last time most were used was during black armory on snipers at least. Not definitive as I didn't exhaustively sort through em but enough to see that it's largely died off regardless. I don't think implementing them necessarily would have been hard work since it seems like a lot of the older gun models at least share the same base just with little bits added or taken off here and there and a scope is simply another part that can be dropped in at will.

Zoom as a mechanic is kind of weird. The skinny is that it affects a weapon's accuracy cone, damage falloff and accordingly, its effective range, but that comes with the trade off of messing with the sight picture but only when the source is from a scope perk. I'm sure someone can explain it better than that. The higher zoom sniper scopes also tended to come with a handling penalty so a good pvp sniper would have a low power scope, potentially with a handling bonus and possible with no zoom at all. It's also why rangefinder is or was at the time such a sought after pvp perk, especially on hand cannons. I didn't use snipers in pvp a whole lot but I did use fusion rifles and there were a couple that I was partial to that used scopes, namely the s13 cartesian coordinate and the legendary xur's ingredient, though they were later supplanted by a long grinded adept plug one. Honestly, xur's ingredient was a better gun, I just didn't like the red war model it used.
 
no, i want to laugh whenever someone gets killed due to a boss launching them to the stratosphere like it happens in vanguard strikes, yes, even myself.
(i could go solo but bungo says it's too hard, that's irony btw), besides i already did it way back, why do you think i already have the damn thing?
Doing the updated quest gives you a craftable version that will eventually get better stats and perk options (Mulligan sucks as long as you're actually landing your shots). They did the same thing with rereleasing the Zero Hour mission and a craftable Outbreak Perfected during Into the Light. Yeah, I know, "they should have just given that to me," but them's the breaks. If you don't care about that, then like you said, you already have a copy.
 
Aztecross has succeeded in getting his chat to spam the Sony State of Play chat with demands for Destiny 3, I can't see anything but that lmao.
 
I don't think I said my piece very well. Even when guns featured scopes instead of barrels in the first column, they were 1) relatively uncommon outside of Y1 weapons and 2) contentious at best because some guns really wanted one or the other and getting the wrong one or God forbid, a bad scope selection could make or break a gun.
It's always scopes or barrels in the first column. My speculation was that it's less work to keep barrels in line which is why they've seemingly pivoted away from using scope perks.
makes sense because one of the purple snipers you get from the new light intro (gallu rr3) is a reskin of a red war one (the morning comes) but you get to mainly choose the barrel and extra perks, not scope, it has the medium range scope as default while the red war one you can choose the long range one, the black armory ones they are mostly red war guns but with a extra sets of characters to imply it's a black armory edition so...
Zoom as a mechanic is kind of weird. The skinny is that it affects a weapon's accuracy cone, damage falloff and accordingly, its effective range, but that comes with the trade off of messing with the sight picture but only when the source is from a scope perk. I'm sure someone can explain it better than that. The higher zoom sniper scopes also tended to come with a handling penalty so a good pvp sniper would have a low power scope, potentially with a handling bonus and possible with no zoom at all. It's also why rangefinder is or was at the time such a sought after pvp perk, especially on hand cannons. I didn't use snipers in pvp a whole lot but I did use fusion rifles and there were a couple that I was partial to that used scopes, namely the s13 cartesian coordinate and the legendary xur's ingredient, though they were later supplanted by a long grinded adept plug one. Honestly, xur's ingredient was a better gun, I just didn't like the red war model it used.
you mean this bitch?
1780435970357.png
they did release as a random roll too but with the scope tweaked.
1780436078476.png
however i kind of stopped giving a fuck about pvp after my first iron banner match during bnet era, shit was so fucking retarded i just turned my brain off and only cared about the pinnacle drop though i do remember the shotgun meta during forsaken, went to like rank 3 in ranked with a bunch of randoms that also used the shotgun meta then life kept me busy until the announced sunsetting and well, i am only logging back now because i know bungie's retardation won't continue raping this game down and that my equipment was unsunsetted, else i wouldn't give the time of day to this shit even if a couple of steam friends are showing up with my random runs, i did notice on reddit a lot of cope posting, including one about the suits with names being thrown left and right, maymay image posted here because reddit, you never know when a bitchfit will make a powermod purge it.
1780436592453.png
 
you mean this bitch?
sort of. xur's ingredient was a god rolled main ingredient that he sold at some point during the beyond light patch cycle. people remember it like they remember the one triple tap firefly hung jury from D1. it had every single stability increasing perk you could ask for and this came either immediately before or immediately after the big fusion rifle buff that increased the bolts shot by the rapid fires and reduced the bolts shut by the high impacts.
because of how stability controls the bolt pattern, it's the best stat on fusions. it's also why firmly planted was nerfed soon thereafter. anyway, the roll was particle repeater, under pressure, tap the trigger, and a stability masterwork, all three of which increase stability with under pressure always active due to muh special ammo economy and tap the trigger activated on every shot because it's a fusion rifle and you're not spraying a fusion rifle. this capped stability. on paper at the time, there were probably better fusions but it performed so well at the low low cost of checking fucking xur that weekend that it was impossible to pass up.

EDIT: not about to reinstall the game but i found mine in DIM
Screenshot 2026-06-03 123627.png
 
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Aztecross has succeeded in getting his chat to spam the Sony State of Play chat with demands for Destiny 3, I can't see anything but that lmao.
If nothing else, the Total Destiny Retard War has been one of the more amusing things to come out of this whole debacle. Outside of some diehard blast havers, nearly everyone has said that this is an absolutely retarded decision and are making that opinion very much known.

Y'know, I'm not really one to trade in conspiracies, but I was having a little thunk session the other day, and it started to spiral into a scenario that may not be anywhere close to the truth, but if it was, then it could explain other stupid decisions in the game's past. (Making it clear that this is nothing but speculation based off of some things that we know are true and that this is just a hypothetical scenario concocted by a retard on the internet, put your spinfoil hats on and let's continue.)
First, let's start from the basic premise: Jason Jones is notoriously bad at sticking with any project for too long. He hates sequels, he hates being tied down to any particular idea, he wants to move on as soon as possible, and he wants all of Bungie to move on with him. This is behavior that has been well-attested to by many Bungie employees over the years, and is a pattern that has gone back to pretty much the studio's founding. It's so bad that he has frequently needed to be tard wrangled into actually doing what they're contractually obligated to be doing.

So, with that in mind, it's obvious that no matter how excited he initially was about Destiny to begin with, he inevitably soured on it and was ready to move on. Why he was okay with signing a decade-long contract with Activision, knowing his past experiences, is beyond me. Maybe he figured this would be the project that would keep his interest for once, but once again, that proved not to be the case.

So when was he done with Destiny? Probably sometime in the lead up to Destiny 2 after its rocky and delayed development or just after its release, that would be my guess. He probably didn't want to make a sequel anyway, and when it didn't have the best reception, that probably cemented it in his mind that it was time to move on. But the studio didn't have anything else to work on at the moment (and there was that pesky contract, of course), so they couldn't just pivot overnight like he wanted. Thus, the incubation projects. They may have been ongoing the whole time or they may have really started around this time, but either way, Jason wanted a new game, and he was going to make it happen one way or another.

There was just one pesky problem, though: Destiny was still a thing, and it was still doing numbers. It's hard to make the argument to switch the studio over to developing a new game when your existing one is doing well. So what's the brilliant genius Jason Jones to do?

(Rampant speculation from here on out.)

My conspiracy theory: Jason Jones deliberately sabotaged Destiny to force Bungie to work on a new game, either directly or through indirectly pressuring team leads. Look back at various decisions that seem really stupid and illogical, and they start to make sense when you consider that the goal was not to improve Destiny, but to kill it.

Let's start with the first one: killing Destiny 3. As presented to the community, this sounded like a decent idea. No needing to worry about your progress getting wiped again, just continuing on with everything still available to play. The scars of the Red War and losing your original Vault still ran deep. Of course, D2 wasn't designed to expand indefinitely, so various shortcuts that would have been taken during development under the assumption that a brand new game would come along and replace it a couple years later would come back to haunt them. This of course led to...

Vaulting content. Again, this was presented as a necessary evil to the community: "the game is too large and unwieldy to keep developing as is, so we're gonna pull out content that isn't being played much anymore." Hand in hand with sunsetting, this was not a popular decision, and as we can see from the player counts over time, it had a noticeable impact on how many people kept coming back, never reaching the highs it had before. But notably, it also didn't kill the game outright; every expansion still had a fair amount of people keep coming back, and player counts remained fairly consistent over the next few years. Even vaulting the Forsaken campaign and another destination in Witch Queen didn't do much to change the numbers, around when Marathon was starting to move from incubation project to the Next Big Thing. So what about...

Just making some absolute garbage content. Originally, Lightfall was going to be the finale of the Light and Dark Saga, and according to devs, the original version was going to be very different from what we got; rumors have swirled that the intent was that the Witness would basically win and force us to flee the system. Even if it didn't go that far, it likely would have had a much more serious tone. Instead, they tacked on one more expansion at the end in The Final Shape, then went and made the woah cool 80's cyberpunk action adventure enby schlockfest that was the Lightfall campaign. From the tonal whiplash to the insufferable characters to the cringeworthy dialogue to the nonsensical plot to the fact that the whole thing felt like a filler story that you could easily cut out and lose nothing...yeah, it was terrible.

Now, did Jason intentionally direct the narrative department to create the worst story possible in order to sabotage the game's future? I'll admit that this is a bit of a stretch, potentially, considering that Jason seems to be a lefty true believer and probably legitimately thinks Representation Matters™. But considering that he very likely has had a hand in meddling with existing stories before (see the Joe Staten debacle), it's not entirely outside the realm of possibility. Still, while the Lightfall story was complete trash, it wasn't quite enough to deal a deathblow to the game, with a lot of people still sticking around just to see the conclusion. And speaking of...

The aftermath of The Final Shape. By this point, Marathon had been announced and was moving closer to release, but Destiny was still persisting. While a lot of people checked out after beating the Witness, there was still a decent amount of people that wanted to keep playing and exploring the world of Destiny. The episodes were generally met with derision, though, with much of their story feeling unsatisfying in some way or another. Gradually, people were trickling away, but the playerbase was still strong enough to keep chugging along. It really needed a death blow to justify giving it the axe, and thus we get...

The Year of Prophecy. This shit had all kinds of decisions made that pissed players off to no end: killing the Director in favor of the soulless Portal, a massive and tedious power grind for no reason, the continued death of crafting in favor of an endless loot chase, confusing systems that made it feel like you were spending more time in menus than playing, campaigns and destinations that definitely weren't the top of anyone's list, and a lot of radio silence from the people nominally in charge. Meanwhile, devs were getting moved over to salvage Marathon and get it out the door in time, resulting in slower updates for Destiny with less content in them. The results were clear: after one too many bad decisions, the playerbase had finally had enough and for the most part left until things eventually got better. After all, we're used to the Destiny cycle: they fuck up, we leave, they make positive changes, we come back.

Only that's not how it played out. Instead, Jason finally had what he wanted: an excuse to kill Destiny once and for all. Nobody would question the decision to axe development of a game that looked to be on its last legs, after all. "Clearly we tried, but nobody wants to play it anymore!" he could argue. Never mind that the reason people kept leaving was because of all of those retarded decisions piling up over the years (I didn't even get into things like the F2P decision or the seasonal content model or various delays over the years); all the suits actually care about is numbers, and the numbers say that Destiny is a dead brand. Even if Marathon was a total flop out of the gate and doesn't look to be improving, it was still easier to argue that there was more potential in a brand new game than to try and salvage the stumbling old one.

I don't think Jason was quite prepared for the blowback, though. As soon as the announcement dropped, fans both old and new were in an uproar. Months of nothing from comms only to have the game unceremoniously killed off entirely ended up pissing off quite a lot of people, and they immediately said as much. Not only is the appetite for Destiny still there, but the announcement also furthered the rift between Destiny and Marathon players, with the former now having a good reason to hate the latter's game of choice (remember, Bungo said a while back that they had no intention of stopping Destiny support after Marathon came out). Now you have pretty much the entire Destiny fanbase rooting for Marathon's demise regardless of whether that means more Destiny or not, not to mention the outpouring of support from Bungie devs past and present and the game's voice acting cast. Probably not the best decision, eh, Jason?

Like I said, this is entirely speculation, and Hanlon's Razor may very well be the correct interpretation of events. But it did make me think back on those various decisions over the past decade and how they didn't seem to make sense until I looked at it a different way.
 
So, I played a good bit last night due to the reset. I’m excited for June 9th. Maybe I’m just a good goyim, but the gameplay is still so good. I run a prismatic build, consecration on my titan. Monte Carlo for my exotic, rocket pulse and rocket with explosive light. I have an exotic titan mark from TFS that has heart of inner most light and synth on it. Build crafting, while complicated, is still fun as fuck and the gameplay is satisfying.

This franchise still has potential, there is a lot you could do. Especially if a theoretical third game had even more MMO mechanics, housing, jobs, a persistent open world instead of destinations. It’s a fucking shame.
 
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