English Grammar and Writing Style General - Share advice, discuss rules, and offer criticism

[Mnutu]

Written English is a hard writing system to learn and master, even for native speakers. Between the awful spelling and difficult grammar rules, it’s easy to make mistakes. Make enough mistakes, and you can make a simple sentence unreadable. This thread is meant to share tips, discuss the rules, and critique each other’s writing.

I am far from perfect (frankly, I’m barely decent), but I hope that this can help myself and others on this site. I provide only my flawed understanding, informed by the wonders of the American education system.

Spoiler: “Grammar”

When you’re using a comma in a sentence, it should make sense if you swapped the two phrases.

It should make sense if you swapped the phrases when you’re using a comma in a sentence.

Avoid using excessive commas. Determine if it truly makes sense to split a sentence or to just end it.

Know the difference between commas, semi-colons, and colons. Commas are used to list a set or split a sentence. Semi-colons are used when there is a shift in the topic, but the following phrase is too weak to support its own sentence; or it’s used when you have already used a comma (or a set of commas). Because a semi-colon is connecting two incomplete sentences, it should be treated as a comma. Colons are used to begin a list, or to directly connect two sentences but maintain their independence: This means the phrase is strong enough to be an independent sentence, but it is still immediately relevant to the previous sentence. Because a colon is connecting two complete sentences, it should be treated as a period.

Paragraphs can be as long or as short as is necessary. However, five to seven sentences is a good goal. Paragraphs should only tackle one complete thought. Once you’re finished on that specific issue, you should end the paragraph.

Apostrophes indicate contraction (“let’s” means “let us”); no apostrophe indicates possession (“theirs”) or pluralization (“dogs”).

There/their/they’re is too easy to get right. Pay attention.

An Oxford comma is an extra comma before the final object in a list. It should be mandatory, as it completely changes the meaning of a sentence (“eats, shoots, and leaves” vs. “eats, shoots and leaves”). It’s also useful as it creates more powerful prose (“red, blue, and yellow” or “red and blue, green and yellow, and white and black”).

Spoiler: Style

Be consistent. There should be a consistency to the structure and style of your thoughts and writing. If you decide to use numbers (1, 2, 3), stick to using them; if you decide to spell them out (one, two, three), stick to spelling them. It’s a small detail that keeps the text flowing.

Write in an objective manner. You should always assume that the reader recognizes that what is written is from your perspective and is your opinion. Constantly reminding the reader of that fact is redundant and condescending. If you do not feel as if you can make that assumption, then the person you’re talking to is mentally retarded. Stop addressing it to them, and start assuming someone worth a damn will read it.

Rules are flexible, and style is subjective. I find that, at times, it’s beneficial to bend and break rules; so long as it serves to benefit comprehension or readability (or to prove a point).

When in doubt, read it out. If you feel something you’ve written is clunky or wrong, read it out loud. It’ll be obvious if something’s wrong.

Always proofread what you’ve written.

Finally, always fucking spellcheck your shit: We’ve the whole accumulated knowledge of the English language at our fingertips, fucking use it you knuckle-dragging, cousin-fucking mongoloids. It takes five seconds to not look like a moron. I’m not going to subject the precious few points of I.Q. I’ve left trying to decipher out what the fuck you meant to write.

EDIT: @Gimcracker has pointed out my mistake regarding semicolons (even in its spelling). I’ll keep the original intact for posterity, but read his post for the actual rule.

 

[Axiom.]

Thank you, it will make all my retarded posts to be more grammatically correct but still substanceless.

 

[Gimcracker]

You're using semicolons (not semi-colons) incorrectly; they should only be used to join independent clauses (i.e. complete sentences). The exception is using them to clarify groupings in lists as you described.
If you're looking to up your grammar game, learn the grammatical cases, the parts of speech, and in what ways it is permitted to arrange them. One that I've found interesting recently is the vocative case, ex. the word "John" in the sentence "John, what is your address?" Something like that may seem to only be of interest to enthusiasts but will save you headaches down the line when you're trying to really understand the language.

 

[Shlomo XL]

 

[Pierre D'Olnique]

i nevar ackchutyaly lernt english i just playd alot of vidya end listend 2 youtube video's

 

[Jeff Q. Anime]

I choose to write poorly on purpose because it is more convenient.

 

[Doktor Grimm]

Excellent thread, OP -- I am dismayed, however, by your failure to include the Humble yet Versatile Em Dash, who may be deployed as a worthy substitute for the Comma, Colon, Semicolon, or -- if the mood strikes -- Parenthesis. Truly the Swiss Army Knife of punctuation marks.

On a related note, here's a pointer for the aspiring wankers among us. "Who" and "whom" are related to one another in the same way that "he" and "him" are -- i.e. "who" is for subjects, whereas "whom" is for objects. Therefore, whenever you would use "him" (or "her", or "them") in a sentence, you may also use "whom":

He gave me the money. --> Who gave you the money?

I gave the money to him. --> You gave the money to whom?

Keep this in mind and you can whip out a grammatically correct "whom" when speaking to anyone whom you would like to impress. I am not liable for any locker-shoving incidents that may occur as a result.

 

[85CentSoda]

On a related note, here's a pointer for the aspiring wankers among us. "Who" and "whom" are related to one another in the same way that "he" and "him" are -- i.e. "who" is for subjects, whereas "whom" is for objects. Therefore, whenever you would use "him" (or "her", or "them") in a sentence, you may also use "whom":

He gave me the money. --> Who gave you the money?

I gave the money to him. --> You gave the money to whom?

That's actually a crazy useful tip. I never thought about it in relation to he and him. Legitimately, thank you.
There isn't an actual governing body that makes the rules for English like the French Academy does for French, which frankly is just hilariously French of them to have.
I guess the most authoritative source would be The Oxford Guide to the English Language. Honestly I love English. People complain about it being a mash of other languages and that it has complex rules, but really it's incredibly flexible language and other languages have, in my opinion, even more complex rules, like French for example.

 

[N1993R K1LL4H]

I disregard punctuation to a large extent, idk why. It just never made sense unless youre writing prose or documentation.
Grammar makes sense but a lot of academic types seem to be super autistic about it on a conversational basis. I understand that, you gotta do things the right way, although sometimes its a bit annoying.
Style on the other hand, I tend to follow a gamified rhyme scheme. Idk when I formulated it but when you see poetry or "good dialogue", oftentimes either the first part rhymes or the second part rhymes, through alliteration and what not. Its the same in ebonic language and rap, they try to maximize rhyme combos to make it feel good to listen. I try to follow that, the maximizing of rhyme combo, it lends whatever is written some rhythm which makes it good to hear or read. There are other styles of writing, stuff like high impact writing where you try to build up to a high impact through minimal increases (Aaron Sorkin sort of does this) or deliver a high impact statement with minimal words (a lot of the posts on KF which have highlights or a high number of stickers) which I also think are good to learn and follow.

 

[Mnutu]

That's actually a crazy useful tip. I never thought about it in relation to he and him. Legitimately, thank you.
There isn't an actual governing body that makes the rules for English like the French Academy does for French, which frankly is just hilariously French of them to have.
I guess the most authoritative source would be The Oxford Guide to the English Language. Honestly I love English. People complain about it being a mash of other languages and that it has complex rules, but really it's incredibly flexible language and other languages have, in my opinion, even more complex rules, like French for example.

It’s a blessing and a curse. On the one hand, you can write anything and assert it is correct; on the other hand, anyone can write anything and assert it is correct. There are a few authorities on English writing, but they’re for specialized forms like Simplified Technical English or “NPR English”. It’ll be a cold day in hell when I spell “color” “colour” or “jail” “gaol”. There’ve been many attempts to drastically reform English orthography, most famously Mark Twains “Simple English”. Unfortunately, we’re in too deep, and it looks terrible.

The flexibility of English comes from its loose word order structure and its lack of gendering. I’m overstepping a bit on what I certainly know, but word order is the order in which the object, subject, and verb of a sentence are placed. In English, the typical order is SVO (Subject-Verb-Object), as in “person (Subject) doing (Verb) thing (Object).” In some languages, this is a strict requirement to make any actual sense, like Chinese. But we can manipulate that and render the same meaning, or layer an additional meaning to it. For example, in SVO “John reads books” can be rendered in OSV “Books John reads”. I’m certain that’s not entirely accurate, as a case could be made the implication is part of a greater sentence, but it should demonstrate how context matters more than rules. It is like how emphasis can change the meaning of the same sentence: “He hates her” is flat and informative, while “He hates her”, “He hates her”, and “He hates her” each imply something different, depending on intonation.

The only hard and fast rule for ESLs to commit to total and unerring memory is the order of adjectives. It’s so fundamental to the language that it’s almost never taught to native speakers, because we just naturally follow it. It’s DOSA-SCOMP: Determiner, Opinion, Size, Age, Shape, Color, Origin, Material, and Purpose. For example, “A nice big old blocky red German steel family car” is a bit clunky and overly detailed but flows right. Compare to “A family steel German red blocky old big nice car”, which makes you sound insane.

I disregard punctuation to a large extent, idk why. It just never made sense unless youre writing prose or documentation.
Grammar makes sense but a lot of academic types seem to be super autistic about it on a conversational basis. I understand that, you gotta do things the right way, although sometimes its a bit annoying.
Style on the other hand, I tend to follow a gamified rhyme scheme. Idk when I formulated it but when you see poetry or "good dialogue", oftentimes either the first part rhymes or the second part rhymes, through alliteration and what not. It’s the same in ebonic language and rap, they try to maximize rhyme combos to make it feel good to listen. I try to follow that, the maximizing of rhyme combo, it lends whatever is written some rhythm which makes it good to hear or read. There are other styles of writing, stuff like high impact writing where you try to build up to a high impact through minimal increases (Aaron Sorkin sort of does this) or deliver a high impact statement with minimal words (a lot of the posts on KF which have highlights or a high number of stickers) which I also think are good to learn and follow.

That’s the biggest reason we need to study the classic works of literature and poetry. They’re classics because they’ve done something so well that everything that follows it relies on it in some way. Learning how it works requires breaking it, like explaining a joke, but it’s necessary. The most aspirational goal is “to say in one word two”, like the old ironic Shakespeare quote “brevity is the soul of wit”.

 

[Jesse Nicholas Radin]

I'm not a fan of language evolving. That's... a sign of autism, yeah.

Cringe as an adjective. [4chan]. Ask as a noun. [Desperate political figures]

 

[Sebben Crudele II]

So a friend of mine is a veteran line cook, and he told me the way both him and the pastry chef remembered if they should it spell it Dessert or Desert is that "Desserts" is "Stressed" backwards, though in their case the stress wasn't in reference to stress-eating of course.