EU citizens' initiative for consumer protection (participate if you can/want) - Deadline: 31/07/2025

[We Are The Witches]

This thread is to raise awareness of a currently ongoing initiative that you may want to participate in, but right off the bat I want to say that the bigger picture here is about taking a stance on consumer protection.

It's not just about games, because if you believe that it's good to (at the very least) attempt to change some aspect of society or how it works, in a way that is more fair & just, then this seems like a chance for you to act on it, instead of just standing there or talk about what should happen.

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Video explaining it (link to initiative in the description):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkMe9MxxZiI

Initiative (objectives, info, and link to fill the form):
https://citizens-initiative.europa.eu/initiatives/details/2024/000007_en
Archive:
https://archive.md/WzuNi

Don't make the mistake of misinterpreting what's being asked to be considered here, the links and video explain it fully in detail, but the core idea is to "prevent the remote disabling of videogames by the publishers, before providing reasonable means to continue functioning of said videogames without the involvement from the side of the publisher".

In other words, to require videogames sold to be in a reasonably working, functional & playable state at the end of support/time of shutdown, and to prohibit the requirement to connect to the publisher/affiliated parties after shutdown (so like them taking down private servers when support ends; because when this happens (which may be arbitrarily), it's essentially screwing over the customers' purchase and their consumer's rights).

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As you've seen, this requires a 1,000,000 valid statements of support across the EU, subject to some rules, in order to be considered:

Spoiler: What is an European citizen's initiative?

- To be eligible to participate you just need to be a citizen of an EU country, and be of voting age.
- For the signatures to be valid, they must be filled correctly by someone eligible (it's not hard, but if for some reason you screw up, you can't participate again).
- To be successful, the initiative has to reach 1,000,000 statements of support as well as minimum thresholds in at least 7 countries.

Spoiler: Threshold

The Commision is not obligated to act upon the initiative, but I think it is unlikely given that it follows the EU's articles of fundamental rights, specifically the rights to property, and the "Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union", when it relates to consumer protection.

Spoiler: Is the Commision obligated to act?

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If you're not eligible to participate, but you care about it, feel free to spread the video/information to others.

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

I disagree. Using the state as a cudgel is fundamentally a means that will be used against the people.
Instead, I propose abolishing copyright, trademark, patent, and other so-called "intellectual property" rights.
That way, it will be perfectly legal for people to reverse engineer and modify game copies.

 

[CaptainAutism69]

I disagree. Using the state as a cudgel is fundamentally a means that will be used against the people.
Instead, I propose abolishing copyright, trademark, patent, and other so-called "intellectual property" rights.
That way, it will be perfectly legal for people to reverse engineer and modify game copies.

You want a pony with that too?

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

I am too lazy to listen to the whole video, but the premise sort of confuses me. The idea that publishers can killswitch your games via digital distribution platforms (e.g. Steam) makes sense, but how can this be achieved if you have a physical copy of a game? Or if you use GoG which gives you the full install? If I have all my old Morrowind disks, for example, there is no way for Bethesda to stop me from installing and playing it. It is also kind of hard to prevent users from distributing software updates, or doing them on their own (at least theoretically). I understand the point of this legislation and, for what little it's worth (since I'm not from the EU), I'm in support of it. However, I don't fully understand how companies are actually killswitching their games.

 

[Celebrate Nite]

how can this be achieved if you have a physical copy of a game?

Even if you have a physical copy of the game, it's not the FULL game you own, you still have to download fucking GIGS of data to your machine that carries a good chunk of the game needed to work properly. And that's by design because companies want it that way

You know those "cloud" games like the Kingdom Hearts collection or any of the select few Resident Evil games on Switch that are cloud only? That's just one step in the many more steps companies are using to remove your right to not only own games, but even PLAY them. Imagine it being worse than what we already have. Give these companies enough rope and they will hang EVERYONE with it to reach the ultimate goal of total dominance.

Hell, just look at the mobile market with all the gacha games how they require you to always be online even though you may want nothing to do with the PVP part of the game. It's purposefully designed like that so they can spy on you to check every nook and cranny to see if you're being a good little goy and if you DARE alter it or do something they don't like, BAM..... you're gone in an instant, account banned, your phone and IP info stored so you can never play the game again.

 

[The Tall Man]

If we use the government to do something in our interest then we are the bad guys.
Ancapistan forever!

Spoiler: get ninja'd fool

Cool thread @We Are The Witches, but mine is cooler.

 

[Would]

Heh, Ross' goons are posting his latest hobby here too?
Ross hates kiwi farms and it's users.

 

[The Last Stand]

I disagree. Using the state as a cudgel is fundamentally a means that will be used against the people.
Instead, I propose abolishing copyright, trademark, patent, and other so-called "intellectual property" rights.
That way, it will be perfectly legal for people to reverse engineer and modify game copies.

"Hey, I may lose access to a product I purchased, but at least the GOVERNMENT isn't involved!"

 

[BrodyDaMan]

Remember, currently even games that should be entirely playable offline aren't free from the online only curse.

 

[BananaSplit²]

View attachment 6273979

Remember, currently even games that should be entirely playable offline aren't free from the online only curse.

Isn't Playstation Now a cloud gaming service though?

 

[Rockzo]

Streamer called 'Pirate Software' did a bit on Ross's vid on a stream he did. Has 2M subs on YT and use to work for Blizzard. Comments are saying he got in through Nepotisim.

Ross actually responded: Steam section (This guy streams 10 hours a day)

And then he responds in this livestream part basically sperging out over Ross's logic.

 

[We Are The Witches]

If we use the government to do something in our interest then we are the bad guys.
Ancapistan forever!

Spoiler: get ninja'd fool

Cool thread @We Are The Witches, but mine is cooler.

I didn't see that you already made a thread, but still it's worth repeating I think.

Heh, Ross' goons are posting his latest hobby here too?

I didn't even know this guy existed up until some days ago, but that's irrelevant since the topic is about taking a stance on something.

Ross hates kiwi farms and it's users.

Oh no.

Streamer called 'Pirate Software' did a bit on Ross's vid on a stream he did. Has 2M subs on YT and use to work for Blizzard. Comments are saying he got in through Nepotisim.

Thanks for archiving that.

The initiative tackles the problem mentioned when these services are promptly terminated and screw over the consumers for their purchase, so it adheres to policies and ideas of basic consumer protection.

This guy (Thor) doesn't seem to care about that at all, and honestly, it sounds like he has ulterior motives, but I don't know.

His refusal to talk to Ross is also nonsensical; if he wants to prevent people from participating in this (and hopes that it does not pass), then here he has a perfect opportunity to debate the guy on the topic and educate others, but he won't.

 

[GhastlyGhost]

Thanks for archiving that.

The initiative tackles the problem mentioned when these services are promptly terminated and screw over the consumers for their purchase, so it adheres to policies and ideas of basic consumer protection.

This guy (Thor) doesn't seem to care about that at all, and honestly, it sounds like he has ulterior motives, but I don't know.

His refusal to talk to Ross is also nonsensical; if he wants to prevent people from participating in this (and hopes that it does not pass), then here he has a perfect opportunity to debate the guy on the topic and educate others, but he won't.

Probably operating from the assumption that Ross is a grifter and this is an absolute net negative not worth talking or thinking about.
He clearly lacks the critical thinking skills to see that Ross's points were on the absolute odds of the initiative passing, and not reasons to push for it.

It's frustrating to see someone that's pushing for something good (more people making more games) also pushing for the destruction of that medium.

 

[Lifeguard Hermit]

And then he responds in this livestream part basically sperging out over Ross's logic.

I really wanted to like Thor for background noise but he's an actual meglomaniac:
He makes a point to say how little increases his expenses whenever his income increases, offeres "life advice" to his fanbase, and generally seems like his engagement is a priority.

But it's all a facade where you just saw the veil drop bc Thor knows what's being argued is part of what allowed him to coast as a "developer" post working in security for several MMOs. His bottom line being affected is what fueled his response which means that he is just better at being DSP than DSP himself is.

Always online is core aspect of Thors business sense so it's no wonder he had an autistic shit fit over it.

Also Rossman ate him alive for being such a prick.

https://youtu.be/TF4zH8bJDI8?si=DIETRANNIES

I know you're going to read this Thor so I hope you know everyone thinks you're just another shill and should drop the coolguyfortheppl persona.

Also Noone believes you're fiscally responsible if you own as many ferrets as you do.

 

[GhastlyGhost]

More slapfighting in the comments of the Rossmann video.

 

[The Last Stand]

I am too lazy to listen to the whole video, but the premise sort of confuses me. The idea that publishers can killswitch your games via digital distribution platforms (e.g. Steam) makes sense, but how can this be achieved if you have a physical copy of a game? Or if you use GoG which gives you the full install?

I don't know the full specifics, but some games are tied to a server for access. Take The Crew as an example. Yes, you're downloading the content on your console/PC, but Ubisoft has the access tied to their servers. DRM so to speak, but worse. When Ubisoft decommissioned those servers, the authentication for the title was revoked with it.

 

[GhastlyGhost]

The gamut runs from roughly single authentication check against a central server to video stream to client and control inputs from client back to servers.
We're at dedicated servers that run most of the game's logic with a small amount running on the client right now.
And we're trying to make sure that the games we've paid for aren't taken away as a result when they decide to stop hosting those servers.

 

[Illuminati Order Official]

If we use the government to do something in our interest then we are the bad guys.
Ancapistan forever!

Sic one monster on another monster, I say.

 

[30+GameOvers]

This guy (Thor) doesn't seem to care about that at all, and honestly, it sounds like he has ulterior motives, but I don't know.

His refusal to talk to Ross is also nonsensical; if he wants to prevent people from participating in this (and hopes that it does not pass), then here he has a perfect opportunity to debate the guy on the topic and educate others, but he won't.

Reminder that even a schizo atheist AI sperging lolcow like Eliezer Schlomo Yudkowsky had the stones to talk to Ross. He made a fool of himself, and surely put himself out there as a lolcow to thousands of people, but at least he showed up on a stream and made his points to Ross. This guy is beneath him, apparently.
What a surprise that a literally who pixelshit game making ex-Blizzard employee with a them/they on his staff completely drops the mask. Remember who is ruining your games, never forget their names.

 

[Smashed & Slamed]

More slapfighting in the comments of the Rossmann video.
View attachment 6275675View attachment 6275674View attachment 6275676

"You hurt the politician's feelings"
There is no bigger nigger cattle on earth than the one that cares about politicians, in general, as a fucking class. I am at a loss for word to describe this level of servile behavior in service for the most reviled type of human.