EU Europe needs ‘NATO’ without US – Orban

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Europe needs ‘NATO’ without US – Orban​

Europe needs its own military bloc, one that’s free of American influence, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban told the Swiss Weltwoche weekly on Thursday. The US is dragging Europe into a conflict that cannot be won and risks a global war, he believes.

“The solution would be a European NATO,”Orban said, adding that the US’ desire for further expansion of its influence is what has led to the tensions between the West and Russia.

Moscow is concerned about NATO expanding further east into Ukraine and Georgia, Orban claimed, referring to his conversation with Russian President Vladimir Putin just weeks before the ongoing conflict between Moscow and Kiev broke out in late February 2022.

“Putin told me his problem was with the American missile bases in Poland and Romania and possible NATO expansion in Ukraine and Georgia,” Orban told the Swiss media, noting that the Russian leader was concerned about the US potentially deploying its weapons to these nations as well.

According to Orban, that was one of the underlying reasons behind the ongoing conflict in Ukraine. “I understand what Putin said. I do not accept what he did,” the Hungarian prime minister explained, referring to the Russian military operation in Ukraine.

Orban insisted that Hungary should stay out of this conflict. He also said that Budapest was subjected to “constant pressure” as other Western nations “want to drag us into the war through every possible means.”

Orban believes that is because the EU is serving the interests of the US at the expense of its own. “Decisions made by Brussels reflect American interests more often than European ones,” he said.

In his opinion, Western nations need to demonstrate a true “desire” and “will” for peace if they want it to be achieved in Ukraine. “That will is what is lacking today, at least in the West,” he said.

Hungary has repeatedly called for peace amid the conflict between Moscow and Kiev, as well as criticized the Western sanctions imposed against Russia and arms deliveries to Ukraine. Earlier this week, Orban said that the ongoing hostilities benefitted no one in the world. Hungary was also the only NATO nation that supported China’s peace plan for Ukraine.
 
Yeah no. Europe does not need shit from Hungary. Don't twist it. Just say it, you need help. And I am sure you do.

I just don't want the EU to become the US. We're good. Do your Hungarian things, I don't want another layer supranational state to try and tell me what's good for me.

Funny how he chose to talk to a Swiss newspaper of all people. The fuckers who refuse to get involved in any war unless really inconvenient.
 
I don't think NATO or the EU really give a shit about the opinions of a tiny, irrelevant country like Hungary.
 
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During the Brexit debates LibDem leader Nick Clegg denied publicly that there were plans for an EU army under central European command on live TV. And indeed, those plans had been deliberately shelved during the build up to the referendum so that British politicians could insist nobody was doing it. Then within literally days of the referendum having taken place, the plans came out again and public discussion of an EU army began again.

The chief problem with an EU army, imo, is that it's a lot easier to use the army against the citizenry if you can, e.g. send Polish ones to police the UK, British ones to police Spain or Greece, etc. The approach of getting a foreign army to keep your citizens in line because the native one will hesitate is something that has been done time and again throughout history.
 
During the Brexit debates LibDem leader Nick Clegg denied publicly that there were plans for an EU army under central European command on live TV. And indeed, those plans had been deliberately shelved during the build up to the referendum so that British politicians could insist nobody was doing it. Then within literally days of the referendum having taken place, the plans came out again and public discussion of an EU army began again.

The chief problem with an EU army, imo, is that it's a lot easier to use the army against the citizenry if you can, e.g. send Polish ones to police the UK, British ones to police Spain or Greece, etc. The approach of getting a foreign army to keep your citizens in line because the native one will hesitate is something that has been done time and again throughout history.
There's also the logistical problems such an army would face; they need to have their own industrial base independent of the US and Germany is shutting down theirs because they don't have enough colluding Russian gas. Western Europe as a whole are Leftist governments and thus, completely buy into environmentalism.

So, I don't think there will be an EU army. The most to expect is an anti-Russia army, but it'll be made up of Eastern European states and they're in it for some Slav-on-Slav violence and require a lot of combined training to be an effective fighting force. It's not really the sort of military that the EU can use for globohomo domination.
 
No no no, you misunderstand. When they say without the US, they mean without the US having a say. They'll still take our gibs like a cheap hooker takes loads to the face.
The only difference between Europe and a hooker is the hooker doesn't stand there with her face covered with jizz and tell you how much better than you she is right before asking for another $20.
 
No no no, you misunderstand. When they say without the US, they mean without the US having a say. They'll still take our gibs like a cheap hooker takes loads to the face.
Oh. Well fuck that. My version is clearly superior.
The chief problem with an EU army, imo, is that it's a lot easier to use the army against the citizenry if you can, e.g. send Polish ones to police the UK, British ones to police Spain or Greece, etc. The approach of getting a foreign army to keep your citizens in line because the native one will hesitate is something that has been done time and again throughout history.
Pretty sure that would be the point of it, yes. Going by the way the yellow vest protests were treated by the french government at any rate.
 
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Good.

Get the US out of NATO. Let them fend for themselves for a while.
You're an idiot. American hegemony comes from its enormous amounts of soft power that is primarily exercised through bilateral agreements.
I for one welcome the idea of Europeans finally getting their shit together and not relying on the US heavily for their defense.

Would let us focus more on the Pacific/China, and possibly put some of that cash into revamping our infrastructure but that's a pipe dream.
Agreed, however the answer isn't removing the US from NATO, the answer is just having European members of NATO do the bare fucking minimum and meet their 2% of GDP requirements. Also, Orban is a fucking idiot, the European Union already has a collective defense clause. His speech is less about "let's improve our bilateral military defense agreements" and more about "let's allow Moscow to do whatever they please as long as it doesn't affect Hungary."

The whole retarded cope of "MUH NATO EXPANSHUN!" Is, quite frankly, infuriating. Nobody is blockading or sanctioning Georgia to force them into NATO. There are no NATO troops pointing guns at Zelensky's head forcing him to align Ukraine with the West. Georgia wants to join NATO because Russia invaded it and carved off two chunks before arming other separatist terrorists, and Ukraine wants to join NATO because Russia invaded them in 2014 and they'd really prefer to not have hundreds of thousands of men, women, and children die because Putin wants to LARP as Tsar Alexander.

NATO is, has always been, and will always be a free association of nations committed to collective defense. To complain about "NATO expansion" is to complain about nations having the freedom to choose their international agreements for themselves.
 
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