Freedom of Speech or Journalistic Integrity?

Would you sacrifice freedom of speech to stop journalists from lying?

  • No, freedom of speech is sacrosanct & its preservation is above all other concerns

    Votes: 14 70.0%
  • Yes, journoscum are a detriment to society & need to be compelled to tell the truth

    Votes: 6 30.0%

  • Total voters
    20

MarvinTheParanoidAndroid

This will all end in tears, I just know it.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Journalists are great big faggy liars who lie a lot. They don't just tell bold faced lies either, they lie in cunning and conniving ways, from simple omission of facts to weasel wording and straw men. Dumber journos will tell the most retarded, uninformed version of events with just enough eloquence to be convincing to the average normie boomer tard, while wittier journalists will lie in ways few people will even notice until the more perceptive among us point it out.

Journoscum have gone a long way in damaging KiwiFarms and its reputation, blaming multiple suicides on KF for which it had no hand in nor responsibility for, even down to getting simple facts wrong such as who founded KF in the first place. Moreover, journalists are used as trusted authoritative sources by information aggregates like Wikipedia which are accepted by most people as being a reliable repository of historical facts. The truth is that Wikipedia is just a proxy of journalists who are themselves proxies of large corporations and the government.

In an ideal world, the truth would simply come out as a matter of merit, having innate superiority to any lie. However, we don't live in an ideal world, we live in a world where people are adverse to being challenged, preferring instead to group themselves among tribes based on identity from opinion. Such people don't require empirical evidence held to standards of scrutiny to form their opinions, but are instead allergic to evidence that challenges their existing opinions, like a saber tooth tiger had just wondered into the tribe's sleeping cave. These people will selectively consume evidence in support of their worldview and against opposing viewpoints. In this way, journalists are bigger grifters than any Youtuber, telling an audience of mental midgets what they want to hear over what factually happened.

That goes without mentioning that large, powerful entities like big pharma or the government will go out of their way to dispel any inconvenient truth with a far greater degree of power than any independent truth seeker can muster. Think of how Google has become increasingly useless from year to year, I personally believe that large corpos and the U.S. government are both involved in making Google's search engine shittier and shittier to hide inconvenient web results. Duck Duck Go did the same thing of their own volition to censor any pro-Russia sentiment during the opening days of the Russo-Ukrainian war, and that's presumably without their palms needing greasing by the military industrial complex, they just felt morally compelled to censor.

Another consideration is that journalism, through lies and slander, are themselves a function of censorship. If you assassinate the character of an individual or a website like KF, no one will be willing to listen to any of our pleas because their opinions have already been dictated to them. Journalists are, for all intents and purposes, ambassadors of "truth" to the masses. People don't have the time, energy or resources to do independent, original research into a subject matter to prove to themselves or others what the facts really are. Just think of whenever a new, controversial bill like the Heartbeat bill or "Don't Say Gay" bill were introduced, how many people went to the official government websites to read the document for themselves as opposed to just listening to what some talking head on a news channel said about it?

Journalists are such a detriment to the very concept of truth that they've reduced facts to matters of opinion. Would it be righteous and ethical to compel them to tell the truth as opposed to letting them lie freely?

If yes, the next question is how do we determine what a truth is and tell it apart from a lie as concretely as possible? What verbal representation of a fact is the most true to its nature yet best understood in the most unambiguous way possible to the broadest scope of people? Who do you put in charge of determining truth from lie?

If anything, I imagine that creating "compelled truth" would be something that a lying government would smile on very much, not for being a mechanism for championing facts, but for the legal status of enforced truth as they decide what truth is. This is essentially the role that existing journalists already fill, a mouthpiece for government, only now it wouldn't be done as a matter of ideological purity or simple bribery but as a matter of legal force. The U.S. government already tried this shit with their disinformation czar that had to be quickly canned for all the Soyviet Union brand recognition it sported. You can compel the government to enforce truth all you like if they get to decide what truth is.

And any standards of compelled truth would be more compelled onto you rather than on journos themselves, they are paid to lie and you are coerced to believe in the lie and call it truth by force. By no means do I believe that placing a legal burden of compelled truth on journos would restore or course-correct KF's reputation in any way shape or form.

One could argue that the simplest solution for dealing with lying journos is to simply starve them out. But that just further incentivizes them to take money from corpos and the government and continue lying even harder to the boomers who still watch CNN, but I otherwise don't see a choice in the matter than a permanent boycott. Eventually nobody who trusted mainstream news media will be around anymore and the only people remaining will be the people who learned just how untrustworthy journos are, making their part as a propaganda arm completely pointless since there is nobody left for them to reach. But as I've said before, people enjoy their preferred lie.
 
you can't force this kind of thing on people who aren't willing to play ball.
whatever rules or regulations you set, they'll always find ways to weasel their way around them in new and creative ways.
the only way to solve the problem is to seize power, and use it to actually put genuine fear into their hearts and minds, that's the only way you'll ever get these people do do what you want.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: Gog & Magog
I like First Amendment. :)🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
the only way to solve the problem is to seize power, and use it to actually put genuine fear into their hearts and minds, that's the only way you'll ever get these people do do what you want.
1. Seize power!
2. Physically intimidate our enemies
3.???
4. Profit!!! This is a gay power fantasy
Freedom of speech uber alles.
You can't compel people to tell the truth, but you can let their record embarrass them.
The truth will win out, it's a question of when.
What if the people don't want to hear the truth? :(
 
  • Like
Reactions: pentangle
It's pretty simple really. Lying is freedom of speech but defamation isn't, and the problem with journos lying is that they typically lie to slander people and damage their reputation. In a perfect society this would be easily prosecutable so that the damaged party can be made whole, and the threat of prosecution would be enough to deter journos from slandering everyone they don't like. However in an actual real life western country with its justice system that just isn't possible, so journos gleefully get away with defamation all the time. Forcing journos to only speak the truth isn't a solution, you don't want to let the state decide what is or isn't true, ever. In fact there probably isn't a solution that would preserve freedom of speech in its entirety.

You could approach the problem from the other side, in spite of the tense and polarized times we live in, and teach people to verify information they're given and think more objectively, and... lmao forget I said anything. There's just no solution.
 
1. Seize power!
2. Physically intimidate our enemies
3.???
4. Profit!!! This is a gay power fantasy
well yeah - the press is in the hand of your enemies, as long as that is the case it will be used as a weapon against you. it's only going to stop if you either remove them and take control of the press for yourself, or if you scare them so hard that they are too afraid to continue opposing you.
otherwise, you'll simply be stuck with a hostile press that spreads enemy propaganda, forever.
 
There are cases where lying isn't "freedom of speech". Fraud or libel.

I suppose the problem comes then where do you draw the line? Should things like national enquirer or other tabloids have to be set to these rules? Beloved infowars?

Journoscum may lie but then I want to turn around and promulgate unconfirmed things like biden shitting himself at D-Day.
 
That's a lot of words for nothing.

Journalistic Integrity​

There is not such thing as integrity for a "journalist", the name is a fraud label they hijacked (journal = a personal diary: journal-ist = person who just writes personal shit) . They are just propagandists. Now, that name doesn't sound so good for the public ears, so you just change it. "News reporter", "activists", you get the idea. Nothing in this field is about integrity for truth.

You pay them. they will make up a story in your favor in the public eye (and often on the expense of someone they don't like). That's it. TJD
 
There's a certain type of libertarian that neither wants authority to compel people to act in a certain way, but also whines endlessly when people don't act in the way they want. Then they wonder why they're always losing.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: DumbDude43
The problem with this question is that the proposed deal- sacrificing free speech for truth- isn't on the table. You can't compel people who are determined to lie to tell the truth, as we saw from the reign of the sad, toothless "fairness doctrine."
 
  • Thunk-Provoking
Reactions: Gog & Magog
well yeah - the press is in the hand of your enemies, as long as that is the case it will be used as a weapon against you. it's only going to stop if you either remove them and take control of the press for yourself, or if you scare them so hard that they are too afraid to continue opposing you.
otherwise, you'll simply be stuck with a hostile press that spreads enemy propaganda, forever.
Your mom is enemy propaganda. :smug:
 
  • Agree
Reactions: AirdropShitposts
I'm glad my contribution elevated this thread into something worth reading.
Your veto is not a contribution. This is a forum, its purpose is to have discussions. If you have contempt for that concept then why did you bother to register an account, newfag?
 
This turns entirely on your belief in how infallible humans can be. Especially those who seek power.

You're not "compelling truth" you're simply shifting the burden of being truthful from one set of individuals to another. We can presume a truthful or lying journalist and the situation does not change, rather than his own self judging truth or the necessity of lying for a good cause (or his own benefit) he would merely outsource this to the authority that can punish him for disobeying it.

Another more cynical way to put my first sentence is to say it turns entirely on your belief about how truthful power or authority will be. If you believe authority will only ever act selflessly for truth even when it limits their power then you will not prioritize anyone having freedom because you will only see it as the freedom to do wrong, the individuals own beliefs are clearly false consciousness, and there's no justification for doing wrong. If power is no better at knowing truth or being infallible than those over who it is held then you're simply who gets to have power.

This is similar to the paradox of how many people think about voting/democracy. We aren't trusted to live our own lives and decide for ourselves in an infinite array of choices, thus why we need authority to prevent us from doing so many wrong things and to spend so much molding us properly in so many ways and to watch us at all times and use our money better than us, but we trust these same incompetents to choose the authority that decides these things. Shifting from the journalists choosing truth or not to another authority doesn't solve the problem, it merely shifts who is deciding what is truthful. And in many respects simply asserts the truthfulness of the authority as self-evident.
 
If only defamation and libel laws were actually enforced on said press and journalists...

Entirely possible to have free speech and accountability for lying and deceit. (Un)fortunately if we actually started enforcing libel laws and shit... "Journalism" would cease to exist overnight
 
Back