General GunTuber thread

Sleazy Car Salesman said:
The three principal issues that the French faced in the interwar period was massive political unrest, severe economic population and industrial downturn, and geographical misfortune. Given the circumstances the French military made many missteps in hindsight but really did do the best that they could given the circumstance. What really fucked them bad was the timidity and indecisiveness of the French government more than anything.
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The Krauts have invaded France so many times that you just have to conclude that the French like it.

It's a meme country full of loose women and day-drinking men, and all the best Frogs died of syphilis at age 40.
 
Rabbi Yeshua Moon said:
You also have to remember, however, that far more French men and women actively collaborated with the Germans than resisted occupation. It’s not to throw shade at the French, but it’s disrespectful to the Poles and Yugoslavs who suffered millions of casualties from the occupation and reprisals.
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Not exactly apples and apples is it though?

The western allies were treated as equals by Germans. They were adversaries, but still respected. Eastern Europeans were considered subhuman, and this is not even taking into the account the massive Jewish population of Poland at the time.

The French (and the Dutch, the Belgians) weren't oppressed and treated like subhuman garbage like the occupants in the East.
 
Rabbi Yeshua Moon said:
You also have to remember, however, that far more French men and women actively collaborated with the Germans than resisted occupation. It’s not to throw shade at the French, but it’s disrespectful to the Poles and Yugoslavs who suffered millions of casualties from the occupation and reprisals.
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Oh my brother, don't get me started. During the liberation of European nations from the Germans, the soldiers and populace that were most likely to fire on Americans were...you guessed it...the French. Both in France and North Africa, Americans came under fire from both Vichy soldiers and the average French civilian. I lost count how many in the field reports I read from Americans detailing how when they moved into a village, clearly being fucking Americans, French farmers were sniping at them.

And I won't even bother commenting on how many French motherfuckers have told me that their grandpere et grandmere were both part of the Resistance. Jesus, if even half of those claims were true, the Germans would have vacated France in less than a year.

All that said, I'll still tip my hat to those beret wearing faggots because they fought like animals throughout the 20th century, all the way into Afghanistan, before the country as a whole just gave up being France.
 
Sleazy Car Salesman said:
The three principal issues that the French faced in the interwar period was massive political unrest, severe economic population and industrial downturn, and geographical misfortune. Given the circumstances the French military made many missteps in hindsight but really did do the best that they could given the circumstance. What really fucked them bad was the timidity and indecisiveness of the French government more than anything.
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Well, they had just seen what a large-scale war could do to their country and didn't want that bullshit all over again. Expecting another WW1-styled war, they prepared for that. They built the Maginot Line, a series of fortifications along the German border. They were expecting the Germans to attack via Belgium like they had in WW1, but instead the Germans took the route through the Ardennes. The French thought a large-scale mechanized assault would be nigh-impossible due to the thick forest and hilly terrain.

So while France's strongest fighting forces were moving north to fight the oncoming German forces into Belgium, the German's main forces were cutting behind them through the Ardennes straight into France. By the time the French could even begin getting a grasp on what was happening, the Germans had already made it to the English channel.
 
Capgras Delusion said:
They built the Maginot Line, a series of fortifications along the German border. They were expecting the Germans to attack via Belgium like they had in WW1, but instead the Germans took the route through the Ardennes. The French thought a large-scale mechanized assault would be nigh-impossible due to the thick forest and hilly terrain.
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Which was quite possibly the dumbest assumption and resulting decision they could have made. Everyone imagines that WWI was a static war that only finally broke in the last months, but during that war they had plenty of lessons that static emplacements weren't a good idea. While the French morale may have been buoyed by the resistance at Fort de Vaux, ultimately it didn't do anything to avoid Verdun. Even the French military admitted as much.

And to follow on to that point, maneuver warfare was a thing that everyone knew about and the Germans employed several times in WWI. Ask the Russian Second Army at Tannenberg or the Russians (again), this time at Gorlice–Tarnów. Strictly speaking, the Schlieffen Plan was maneuver warfare that should have taught the French about Germans enjoying a good old fashioned sweep into France.

Frankly, I've always believed that the Maginot line was as much a cost-cutting action as it was military stupidity.
 
Zyklon C said:
Someone once argued, and I wasn't entirely opposed to the notion, that people need to separate the French government from the French military.
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Yes and no. It takes two to tango but the French Government was actively hostile to the French Military, particularly the Army, and did everything in their power to fuck over their ability to retain people long term due to fears of a coup.
Rabbi Yeshua Moon said:
You also have to remember, however, that far more French men and women actively collaborated with the Germans than resisted occupation. It’s not to throw shade at the French, but it’s disrespectful to the Poles and Yugoslavs who suffered millions of casualties from the occupation and reprisals.
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We're talking about the interwar period here, not WWII. Hardly any French collaborated with the Germans in the Great War.
 
Ehh, the two days of 8-10 November where the French resisted the Allies in North Africa was a thing that was very close to not have happened. On the morning of 8th General Bethouart nearly succeeded in preventing the resistance, but with General Nogues not buying the threat being more than a commando raid, that sadly did not happen. If Nogues had flipped to the Allied side, Admiral Esteva in Tunis would have followed with Darlan close behind him. And Nogues was the one who ordered the troops to resists in the first place based on Vichy orders.

Now the Syria campaign where the combined Australian, British, Indian and Free French troops took near 4.3k is a fully different thing, but why they resisted starts to make more sense when you look at the events before. Petain was leading a rump state of France, but still a sovereign state at least for certain extend. They had kept their colonies and foreign holdings instead of Germany outright annexing them. For Petain staying sovereign would ensure the survival of the state (I am oversimplifying really hard here). If Vichy France hadn't tried to defend their lands, there was a clear risk that Germans would have just kicked Petain and friends out and fully started to run the show. Add in Mers-el-Kebir and the whole shitshow, no wonder the French were sceptical and harbored whole lot of bad blood against the British, after all they did bomb Gibraltar couple times as a retaliation. So in that light when the Syria happens year later, they resisted. When Torch happens, they resisted. French soldiers followed their orders until they were told to surrender and switch sides.

But what happens next tells us a lot, Petain died a senile prisoner, Laval was shot, Nogues was sentenced into exile, Esteva was given life imprisonment and was pardoned after becoming terminally ill, Darlan was assassinated and Dentz who commanded the Vichy French troops in Syria/Lebanon was given death sentence originally (he died in 1945). During the war ten thousand collaborators were shot and post-war 800ish were executed from the total of 6.7k given death sentences. When the Second World War ended, the French Army was the fourth largest in Europe after US, Soviets and the Brits with over 1.3 million men in arms of which ten divisions were fighting in Germany. Even earlier back in August, there was 50k French troops of the First Army participating in Operation Dragoon and the First Army had ballooned to quarter million at the end of the war.

If I am going to argue a point, it would be that while the French resisting the Allies is noteworthy and that did cause casualties, the officers and people at charge had legitimate even if in our eyes wrong reasons to resist. And immediately following it most of them paid for it. And the scale of resistance and the casualties caused gets dwarfed by how strongly the French threw their lot behind the Allies post Torch and North Africa after they had gotten their own internal politics in order. I am writing this mostly from memory so there might be couple mistakes here and there, apologies for that.
 
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Laminated Flooring Panel said:
And the scale of resistance and the casualties caused gets dwarfed by how strongly the French threw their lot behind the Allies post Torch and North Africa after they had gotten their own internal politics in order. I am writing this mostly from memory so there might be couple mistakes here and there, apologies for that.
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I wouldn't argue that in the slightest. A lot of people may not be aware that at the end of the war, the French had the fourth largest army in the field -- nearly two million men in Europe and Africa.
 
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WHO WANTS A FRENCH MAS RIFLE?!?!?

NEVER FIRED AND ONLY DROPPED ONCE!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAAHHAAHAHAH
 
Baked Al-Aqsa said:
View attachment 9478612

WHO WANTS A FRENCH MAS RIFLE?!?!?

NEVER FIRED AND ONLY DROPPED ONCE!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAAHHAAHAHAH
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If you were in gun stores selling surplus French rifles 20 years ago you'd hear this at least once a day. Since they were all refurbed in the 70s we never saw a French rifle that was worse than excellent condition unless it was one of the Vietnam War bring backs.
 
Zyklon C said:
Which was quite possibly the dumbest assumption and resulting decision they could have made. Everyone imagines that WWI was a static war that only finally broke in the last months, but during that war they had plenty of lessons that static emplacements weren't a good idea.
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The Maginot Line wasn't designed or operated as the sole means of defense. As its purpose was to be a massive extended briar patched tarbaby to slow down German forces so the mobile French land and air forces can arrived to where they're needed.
The French Military were well aware of the routes the Germans took during WWI and intended for the Maginot Line to be all along the French and Low Countries borders with Germany. When the Low Countries balked at the idea and wanted no part in it. The French govt and people refused to pay for most of the Maginot Line extension along the French and Low Countries borders and the Ardennes. Which the French Military were only able to build very sparsely separated fortifications ranging from light machine gun armed pillboxes to slightly larger structures with slightly heavier armaments. All of which the extension barely even amounted to being an almost nonexistent speed bump.
 
So I decide to randomly check into the general guntuber thread to see if there's any new guntuber news. If Karl has done anything pants-headed retarded lately, or what other fat woman Garand Thumb is trying to inseminate JF Gayrapey style.

But instead I see WW2 spergery. I see, I see.
 
Mr.Bucket said:
So I decide to randomly check into the general guntuber thread to see if there's any new guntuber news. If Karl has done anything pants-headed retarded lately, or what other fat woman Garand Thumb is trying to inseminate JF Gayrapey style.

But instead I see WW2 spergery. I see, I see.
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Welcome back. The guntubers all decided they were dead or something so now nobody does anything funny.
 
KiwiFuzz2 said:
I will give 100 izzat to the man, woman, or it who starts a WWII thread under habbenings and starts right in on arguing that every last Jap in the US needed to be herded up and deposited at the local racetrack posthaste.
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Okay but they aren't wrong.

ETA: For those of you who haven't heard of it, and I can't blame you if you haven't since it doesn't seem particularly well known, the Ni'Ihau Incident was one of the largest contributors to the pro-interment sentiment in the USA since a pair of native born American citizens of Japanese descent chose to side with an IJN pilot who had just bombed Pearl Harbor literally that same week and assisted him in destroying his plane and sensitive papers before the authorities could get their hands on them.
 
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Zyklon C said:
Which was quite possibly the dumbest assumption and resulting decision they could have made. Everyone imagines that WWI was a static war that only finally broke in the last months, but during that war they had plenty of lessons that static emplacements weren't a good idea. While the French morale may have been buoyed by the resistance at Fort de Vaux, ultimately it didn't do anything to avoid Verdun. Even the French military admitted as much.
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Except you know, the Germans didn't even attempt to attack it thus Maginot successfully did it's job.

The French Failures were not Maginot. But their deployment towards Belgium. And most importantly the Battle of Sedan. France with what it had at the time could have won Sedan, and should it have won it then the Fall of France wouldn't have happened. Multiple officers were to blame for that happening, none were ever put to trial for what they did.

This video does a decent job explaining how they fucked it up.
 
KiwiFuzz2 said:
I will give 100 izzat to the man, woman, or it who starts a WWII thread under habbenings and starts right in on arguing that every last Jap in the US needed to be herded up and deposited at the local racetrack posthaste.
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There's a a decent defense of it by Kratman I stumbled across the other day and now can't find naturally. His argument was that the Japs near contested territory's needed rounded up for their own safety as much as ours under the accepted laws of war at the time. Also claimed if I'm remembering correctly that most of the Japs on the east coast got left alone.
 
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