General thoughts on the topic of adoption - From babies to teenagers and from 12,000 BC til now

NoReturn

Please read all posts in the voice of Neco-Arc
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Aug 28, 2019
This thread is meant to be a place to discuss the topic of adoption (foster care is ok too I guess) in general. I'm going to add a subtopic below, but as this is the overview post here are some avenues of discussion and debate topics:
  • Why adopt?
  • How should you raise an adopted child vs. a biological child?
  • Benefits and risks of adopting at different ages.
  • Why do so many adopted children end up messed up?
  • Possible alternatives to the modern system.
  • Why are there so few non-"white" foster families?
  • Are mothers more likely to drink/do drugs if they know they're going to give the kid away?
  • Child smuggling and fake orphans.
Anonymized PLs and horror stories welcome. Abortion spergery goes to the abortion thread.
 
(Paging @Retired Junta Member and @Deepland Bystander from the trannies thread since this came up because we were talking about Jamie Lee Curtis' adopted son.)

Topic 1 - On adoption as welfare:
So I've had this idea in my head ever since a friend of a friend adopted a fetus back in the 90s. She told the mother she would take the child, only for the mother to proceed to drink and smoke throughout the pregnancy. When the baby was born, the adoptive mom was then saddled with all the hospital bills, and the kid died a slow painful death during his short life.
Always thought that was kind of fucked up, and as a learned more about older-child adoption, it seems more and more that so much of the existing system is set up in the United States to be some kind of supplemental welfare-for-children system.
I don't know how it works in other places, please educate me.
If you adopt internationally, there's a chance the child's parents are still alive, still want the kid, and/or "gave the kid away" to an adoption agency so the kid could be picked up by people from a wealthy county and raised there. (e.g. "The ‘orphan’ I adopted from Uganda already had a family").
If you adopt within the country, there's a shit ton of time and energy and red tape involved, as well as the risk in many cases that the birth parent will still want to be involved or have visitation rights. This, to me, just seems like brood parasitism.

There's also a whole side-discussion to be had about modern "discourse" around interracial adoption, but that's a whole other can of worms.

Bonus content: The AdoptUSKids gallery of available children
Take a look and tell me what you find. You'll start seeing patterns on page 1.


Topic 2 - NoReturn's theory of purposeful adoption:
On an entirely different topic, I also civilizations who adopted children/orphans for an intentional purpose were on to something. If you adopt a kid as a "replacement" for a biological child, or raise an adopted child as you would a biological one, that kid is always going to struggle with the disconnect between "being treated the same as a biological child" and knowing they aren't actually related to the people who are raising them. I think it's better and more healthy to do things like pick up a kid and let them know they were adopted form the start.

Personally, I don't understand adoption. Even less when a white couple adopt a baby of another race, It doesn't feel like family. I just want to shout cuck when a couple that can get biological babys rather adopt.
This ties into the above. I may be completely off the mark and sound like a socially-inept autist, but the idea of adopting a child with the explict goal of "Ok, you are our heir now, we're going to raise you and here are your responsibilities" actually seems a bit more comforting that "Oh no you're no different than if we had you ourselves, tee hee."
 
Don't worry, the US isn't the only place that does this in a fucked up way.

There was also Germany that placed foster children with pedophiles. An experiment how liberated sexuality for children would lead to prevent a next hokocaust.





There was also the moment where the guccifer hacks research led to discovert of laura silsby traveling with a bunch of orphans from haiti to the US, where it turned out a number of them weren't orphans at all and she was charged with trafficking until clintons stepped in and got the sentence reduced to "arranging irregular travel".



-----
Some thoughts on adoption

Besides these outlandish events, later age adoption misses some crucial bonding for both parties. This means the parents have a higher chance of not being as attached, as loving. Probably prefferable over an orphanage if parents are genuinely trying.

Even adoption at baby age has some difficulties. The genetic difference is very significant. I've known three orphans in my life and they eached echoed a similar sentiment best echoed by the aftican orphan: "I have a weird nose. My parents don't have a weird nose. Did my real parents have a weird nose?" Same thing with odd behaviour. I once drove an ex to meeting her fraternal grandmother for the first time. When we got to her house it took our breath away. It looked exactly like her apartment the way it was decorated, which was an unusual and archaic style in itself, each with an old style sewing machine as a centerpiece and each both still operative and sometimes used.

There are a number of complex traits where adoption studies show your biological parents have a much stronger effect on what they will be than your adoptive parents from the research of Plomin et al.

Extraversion, chance of being a smoker, chance of being a drinker, and yes, also IQ.

Think about such things as being a smoker or drinker. If it affects this kind of behavior, how weird is it to think it would affect such things as styles of conflict resolution?

After digging into this research for a bit, I talked to a nurse who spoke heavenly about a colleague who had adopted two babies, each born to the same junky mother, each when they were born.

As I knew this nurse well and she was being too smug about it, to make a point about something, I asked the killer question.

"So, there were some significant troubles during child rearing weren't there? Do they still keep in touch now they're adults?"

Turns out the boy had once pushed her and his own sister down the stairs in an effort to kill them, because they told him he couldn't keep stealing furniture from his adoptive mother to fund his drug habit.

Why are there so few non-"white" foster families?

White people are more generous than other races, which is why it's a shame when they'll be gone.
 
Last edited:
Personally,

I think that parents who adopt aren't necessarily evil or bad towards the kids, which some people do think. I think some parents genuinly want to give some poor kid, or some unwanted kid, a love-filled life and a home.

And then we haven't discussed couples who are infertile and can't have biological kids anyway.

But yeah, there's a lot of controversy surrounding adoption and adopted kids do tend to have more issues than other kids. Maybe it helps if there's no biological kids at all.

I think they just end up messed up because they live with the thought that their original parents quite often didn't want them. The feeling of being genuinly unwanted as a kid must hurt. Then you add the issue of other kids asking "why are you black when your parents are white?" because kids don't have a filter for these things.

As extreme as it may sound, I think it would help if organizations only let kids be adopted by parents who could atleast sort of pass as their parents, for the sake of the kids.

What's your opinion on step-fathers and step-mothers? Not exactly adoption but it's kind of a similair concept, in a way.
 
I think I do have a lot of opinions regarding the adoption in America - and the main culprit of it isn't confined to adoption only, but the other aspects of American cultures - trannies included. It is the believe that you can truly create 'truth' divorced from intimate social interactions and physical reality. Where things are only treated as real if it is defined by the experts and official institutions. This is a culture where the label, the symbol, the simulcrum of 'being something' is more important than really doing and being it. Where people are seen as to be branded commodity that can be categorised, marketed and understood without having to truly interact with that person. A man is a woman if the law says so, and a child can become a child of another for the same reason. And with this culture, people become obsessed as being defined in a certain way, rather than having a mental fluidity that the labelled self is an illusion. And self can be continually changing and dynamic. (It's ironic though that I'm at the opposite stance of Protestantism when it comes to the comment before)

I'd start that I'm from Thailand and the closed adoption/the belief that adopted children are truly yours, being 'no different than if we had you ourselves' doesn't exist.

Adoption in Thailand means the adoptive family wants to raise the child out of kindness and wanting the child to have a better life. The focus is on the act of 'Raising a child' and NOT being a 'real mother/father' - this is a principle of welfare that every places have. Here the original birth certificate of the child could not be changed, the child will always be known that they are adopted, you really can't hide it when it comes to paperwork, and the culture surround it sees that being adopted is not the equivalent to being a biological child but that doesn't mean they're not loved or being lesser. You're just not growing up with your real parents, that's a fact, and not a heart-shattering one. The law is also made that the adoptive parents could not receive anything from biological family of the child, but the adopted child could receive from both side - to focus that the duty of adopted parents is to raise a child. Adopted children can be glad they're adopted and given a better chance at life? yes... but they can't escape or lie to themselves that they aren't adopted. The language around adoption always distinguish them too.

When I found out that in American culture, adopted children is treated as a 'no different from biological children'. Knowing that birth certificate is sealed, and they have to play pretend 24/7 that they're a 'complete' happy family weirded me out a lot. My first exposure to this is the Sims 2 and adopted children is suddenly part of the genetic lineage of your characters and it confused me. Especially when it comes to "interracial" adoption which is a big can of worms of its own too. (I know some farmers here would pile on me, but 'race' is also another 'law before real' Americanism too)

I personally do think that American adoption system is messed up for the precise reason other than most children for adoptions are from junkies and trashy people in general - The children are forced to be in a limbo of existence forever, knowing the truth but can only presenting in the way that fits into legal narrative. And sometimes another limbo of not knowing if they're 'loved like a real child' or being just a moral fashion statement to be paraded around. (many adoptive acts like that and I'm disgusted)

They may start to wonder about their biological parents, while there's a pressure to 'think' that you shouldn't know and your adoptive parents are goody-saintly people for saving you, and you should just be thankful for that. I often find many older American (and Western World) adoptive parents to act like that - the sort of self-indulged moralism that they're saving a child and desire to be seen as 'the one', the possessiveness and defensiveness. And this can fuck up children a lot too. Especially when it comes to international and 'interracial' adoption where moral-fashion-statement angle of adoption totally hits the fan, mixed with the idea of exoticism which is pretty objectifying... If you remember the trend of celebrities adopting internationally like if they're going to pet shops

Mind you, I don't mind international/'interracial' adoption, but only if the culture around it isn't this 'real parents' mixed with white man burden bullshittery. I feel like adoption identity issues arise in the culture where identity reigns high and you are expected to singlemindedly fit into a certain identity box. The parents could not believe that they could be a good guardian or parents of children unless they're also defined in the paper that they're true and honest parents. They don't believe or having the flexibility that you can just raise someone to have a good life.

Some trannies related note : This is the same obsession that makes troons want to be recognised as a mother or father in the birth certificate so they can feel 'real'

Why are there so few non-"white" foster families?
I wondered if this is stemmed from Protestantism (as opposed to comment before me) - where the traditional institution of social connections are removed (which is understandable, the Catholic Church and any other religious institution can be pretty corrupt and tied to the state) And so by making virtues personal. They have to feel like they need to show they're good people, that they're moral and pure. These are the people who were the concerned parents trying to censor things on TV for the children, and the mindset of woke activists today are similar. You adopt a child to show that you're a 'good person'.

The other thing is that it's common for ethnic minorities to live in large family when they come to America, this include immigrant 'whites' too to a certain level too. when you live in a large extended family you sometimes have the duty to raise your relative's children. Not so much of a couple who want to be 'free and independent' in a cookie-cutter suburban.

If possible I might try to talk about the issues of 'interracial' adoption and the construct of race itself too, but later.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Not to say that this kind of culture is inherently bad. The culture that are more lax and fluid has a harder time managing people and industrialising... and many stuck in the third world stage because of it. but you can also go too far and you ended up creating alienation robot world instead.

TL;DR There's an issue with 'law before real' culture in America that everything must be defined as a binary choice. And therefore create identity issues for adopted children. There's also the issues of people who want to only adopt to look like they're 'good people' and making it a fashion statement.
 
Last edited:
Speaking as someone who is in fact adopted, this is a pretty interesting topic to discuss.

Looking over what all you guys have brought up, man am I glad that my parents raised me right. I guess it really all depends on how exactly the circumstances regarding the situation with the birth-parents, adopters, and the child in question play out.

I'd bring up my circumstances, but I don't want to powerlevel, so I won't unless you guys want to hear it.
 
Adoption is an interesting topic because in theory it could answer the question nature or nurture? but in practice there are too many variations at play to be able to judge in this sense.

Generally speaking, I am in favor of adoption: it creates families, takes children out of orphanages and foster homes that often do not function properly, etc. The problem, imho, is that a rational allocation criterion is often not used and that adoptable children often have various problems (health, abandonment trauma, etc.). It's a kind of field of a hundred perches: whatever adoption policy you choose poses potential problems.

Personally I know 10 people adopted at various ages (from infants up to 6 years old): 7 of them have issues, both health and / or behavioral, whose severity varies. I have also heard (or known remotely) people with similar problems. Which makes me think that a) genetic differences are more significant than we think b) the mechanism of adoptions does not work properly as regards the matching
 
I don't understand couples adopting besides fertility problems. Besides that, the biggest problem with adoption is that it's a crapshoot, there's a lot of examples of the government (regardless of country) putting draconian restrictions on normal couples who want to adopt a child from the country, forcing them to resort to adopting a kid from some third country shithole, meanwhile also letting welfare queens and pedos have easy time adopting.

A fascinating adoption case in Israel was Caroline Brune:
(I remember there was an english article but can't find it).

Basically an Israeli couple adopts a south American baby that, unbeknownst to them, was kidnapped from her family. A british news agency (of course) finds out about it and start stirring shit, leading to the supreme court needing to decide whether to return the (now two year old girl) to Brazil for her crackwhore mother and drunk father.
Being the supreme court they take the retarded option and give the girl back to her original parents, leading to her giving a birth at the ripe old age of 14 and 16, with the children being taken from her due to not being able to raise them. Happy ending all around, but hey the Brits got a pretty good rating from labour voters and that's the important thing.
 
I can't speak for all but I know for a fact that in some US families they do not take the 'Adopted child is our flesh now' route, the child is still respected and cared for deeply but they do not lie about it. In the case of these families it involved older generations than your Baby Boomers. I do personally know some who were Boomers and did the same but it seems much more rare.

In the cases of the ones that are honest about the adoption but still showed respect they usually seemed to work out better. Or at least as well as one can when some children are rehomed at an age where they'll actually remember their previous life. There's usually still some emotional distance as you'd expect from an adopted child.. and it usually carries over to any children they have.

Personally I'm not against adoption, I'd rather it be for a good reason (Too old to have healthy children, can't, wish to help community) rather than weird shit like 'There's already soooo many kids why make moooore'. But I'm also a grouchy old bitch so I don't take my word as gospel on this shit, I've just seen way too many adopted kids who are utter fuckheads.
 
LOL
Americans and their historical anti-adoption bias stemming from Protestantism.
What's the feeling on it where you live?
There are a number of complex traits where adoption studies show your biological parents have a much stronger effect on what they will be than your adoptive parents from the research of Plomin et al.
I've heard very similar things as well. I remember reading something a few years ago where a birth mother reconnected with her now-adult child and noticed the girl slept in the exact same way she did. That part in particular always stood out to me.
What's your opinion on step-fathers and step-mothers? Not exactly adoption but it's kind of a similair concept, in a way.
I had a lot of respect for them in, but in a way I can't really vocalize irl because I know it will be misconstrued. Society wants me to say "Oh you're raising them as your own, what a good dad!" but in my head it's more "Hey look you got a free kid!". If you marry the kid's parent, especially if the parent is a widow/widower, then I'd expect you to be in that relationship for the long haul and the kid is part of the package. So yeah, that's your kid now.
Adoption in Thailand means the adoptive family wants to raise the child out of kindness and wanting the child to have a better life. The focus is on the act of 'Raising a child' and NOT being a 'real mother/father'
I'd imagine this creates less of a disconnect within the kids, too. Children, as already mentioned upthread, don't have a filter to deny reality, but that doesn't mean they're stupid either. They know they aren't your biological kid, but if you acknowledge that then you've stopped asking them to deny reality and both parties can move on with their lives.
(I know some farmers here would pile on me, but 'race' is also another 'law before real' Americanism too)
I'm there with you, and not even for any super-political reason. Even if we factor out everything else, it's still retarded to pretend race don't real because that mentality puts people's health at risk.
The other thing is that it's common for ethnic minorities to live in large family when they come to America, this include immigrant 'whites' too to a certain level too. when you live in a large extended family you sometimes have the duty to raise your relative's children. Not so much of a couple who want to be 'free and independent' in a cookie-cutter suburban.
You know, this is a fascinating sub-topic, because I feel like there are a lot of "natural adoptions" that take place within families and that benefit from that pre-existing connection.
I'd bring up my circumstances, but I don't want to powerlevel, so I won't unless you guys want to hear it.
Do want to hear about it. Maybe just anonymize it and throw it in a spoiler?
I personally could see myself raising a relative even a few degrees away. Doesn't seem too weird.
I can't speak for all but I know for a fact that in some US families they do not take the 'Adopted child is our flesh now' route, the child is still respected and cared for deeply but they do not lie about it. In the case of these families it involved older generations than your Baby Boomers. I do personally know some who were Boomers and did the same but it seems much more rare.
Seems like there was a culture change. I wonder when it happened and what caused it.
 
There's nothing wrong with adoption, unless you're a retard or something.

Giving kids who've lost their ability to have a regular family one is a kind gesture, on its own, and it can teach new ideas/values to a kid. Not all adopters are saints who aim to do good, but the overall concept and some of its execution are fine.
 
I'm there with you, and not even for any super-political reason. Even if we factor out everything else, it's still retarded to pretend race don't real because that mentality puts people's health at risk.
Sadly, You're not there with me. I'm saying that I'll be piled on by farmers because I know that this place has a lot of race believers. I don't agree that race exists in the way Americans thought of itself to be. Race don't real, for me because the system you're using is a 200 years old science of measuring skulls in the time where people didn't really know how genetic works and wanted a justification that they could enslave these 'savages that are inherently lower from of human'. I say it as a 'law before real', because the categorisation of race in America doesn't reflect cultural line (As other ethnicity category in many other country) Nor genetic lines - but rather a top-down social organisation. You're just forced a pointless label that's more of a social caste.

Of course, there are genetic different between population, but those different do not align perfectly to the traditional racial lines we drew. You could always say that 'But Sickle Cell disease??', the thing is 'Black' people don't always have it and it's present in other tropical population too. I would technically be 'Asian' but I also lacked a lot of Asian characteristics like dry earwax, shovelling teeth, and so on. There are a lot of imprecision in medical area created from race, to much genetic difference in a racial category.

In my country we don't really record's someone race (but has a more culture-based ethnicity category) and when it comes to medical stuff they asked your family history, and now genetic tests for rare diseases are dirt cheap anyway and we don't really need to rely in Victorian era science - It's not super political either. But this raises a question again, adopted children could not know about their real, bio family medical history too.
 
Sadly, You're not there with me. I'm saying that I'll be piled on by farmers because I know that this place has a lot of race believers. I don't agree that race exists in the way Americans thought of itself to be. Race don't real, for me because the system you're using is a 200 years old science of measuring skulls in the time where people didn't really know how genetic works and wanted a justification that they could enslave these 'savages that are inherently lower from of human'. I say it as a 'law before real', because the categorisation of race in America doesn't reflect cultural line (As other ethnicity category in many other country) Nor genetic lines - but rather a top-down social organisation. You're just forced a pointless label that's more of a social caste.

Of course, there are genetic different between population, but those different do not align perfectly to the traditional racial lines we drew. You could always say that 'But Sickle Cell disease??', the thing is 'Black' people don't always have it and it's present in other tropical population too. I would technically be 'Asian' but I also lacked a lot of Asian characteristics like dry earwax, shovelling teeth, and so on. There are a lot of imprecision in medical area created from race, to much genetic difference in a racial category.

In my country we don't really record's someone race (but has a more culture-based ethnicity category) and when it comes to medical stuff they asked your family history, and now genetic tests for rare diseases are dirt cheap anyway and we don't really need to rely in Victorian era science - It's not super political either. But this raises a question again, adopted children could not know about their real, bio family medical history too.
To clarify, I don't mean race in the Victorian Science way either. I mean more along the genetic clusters way the same way I'd look at populations of any other animals.
e.g.
Genetic-diversity-within-and-between-bear-species-A-Pairwise-differences-between.png

and
F4.large.jpg

Outside of the African continent, our species got bottlenecked at least twice. That's super-interesting to think about and I've love to know more about what that did to us and how it affects us biologically.
Definitely not something as blunt as "This one has this color skin so it's X" or stuff like that.
I forget who said this recently, but someone pointed out that if aliens came to earth and started dividing up humans there would be more "races" in Africa than the rest of the world, and I agree with that statement.
 
My only view on adoption is fags should never have the right to adopt. I also think if one fag has a child of his own and introduces it into a fag household later, he should be taken and placed into adoptive care.
 
PL: I'm a transracial adoptee (non-white adopted into a white American family)

Most adoptee's are all a little fucked up (even baby adoptee's). A lot have unaddressed attachment issues that adoptive families don't realize and don't address.
There's also a feeling of otherness that never goes away even in the most loving of adoptive households.
Add in complicating factors like: race, age of adoptee, abuse and neglect, disability, household dysfunction.

A lot of adoptive parents don't talk to child psychologists or read about the hard stuff to prepare themselves. They're not willing to put the kid in therapy unless it's a behavioral problem when they should be in therapy from the get go imo.

All of that equals fucked up kids.
 
Last edited:
A lot have unaddressed attachment issues that adoptive families don't realize and don't address.
Can you elaborate on this? You don't have to PL, I'm just curious about the kind of things parents don't notice or don't know they don't know.
 
Can you elaborate on this? You don't have to PL, I'm just curious about the kind of things parents don't notice or don't know they don't know.
Well I personally am then type to never rock the boat with my family so I would never talk to them about my issues around my adoption. It always felt like I was being ungrateful. I'll also add in that my parents are older and didn't have as much information about adoption affecting the child psychologically no matter what.

But attachment issues/disorders and adoption go hand in hand. There's a lot of different ways that attachment issues are expressed but the reasoning behind behavior can be boiled down to: insecurity and distrust towards the adoptive family.
They fear another abandonment so they do things to:
  1. appeal to the adoptive family in a weird desperate clingy way. in order to feel secure and get affection
  2. act out in order to hasten the rejection
  3. try to avoid bonding
Unfortunately the more intense of these behaviors are the ones that are acknowledged by parents as a reason to see a psychologist and therefore identified.

A lot of adoptive parents (especially older ones like mine) don't even know about or gloss over attachment issues/disorders when adopting. They therefore don't know what to look for; or see it and just believe it's part of the adjustment period for the child (which is half true?). My parents certainly didn't look up adoption issues after I was adopted and was growing up in the family, it's likely that most others don't either.

(i can also elaborate on my behaviors if ur interested since they're on the milder side but it's sad and pathetic)
 
Last edited:
Back