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- Jul 27, 2022
So I was wondering recently what it actually feels like up there and down there. Like is Heaven just infinite dopamine and Hell the exact opposite, I just wanna know man
Heaven & Hell
- Thread starter AnsemSoD1
- Start date
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- Feb 23, 2021
I mean basically. You get to bask in the beatific vision if you go to heaven and hell is the eternal separation from that. Good news is we will all find out soon enough when we get off this blue spinning trash fire called Earth.
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So is Heaven eternal scenery porn then? That must make Hell literally Hell for autists with sensory issues.
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Eventually you figure it out. I knew I fought tooth and nail against it, but then I became convinced in the demonic by extension found our Lord. He just asks us to try and He is merciful. The Catholic Church won't verify anyone is Hell but Satan and is demons because of God's mercy to the last moment.
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You won't want all that pleasure of the flesh once you are free from your flesh prison.
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Isn't Judas practically confirmed to be down there? I heard a story about him being exercised from someone.
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No offense but that sounds like some fucking Gnostic gobbledygook.
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I don't believe so, but I will have to double check.
I can see that, but can also read it the other way that you should be focused on attaining Heaven instead of being lead into sin.
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- May 9, 2017
If you're asking about the Christian view specifically...
Hell isn't a Biblical idea, and the pop-culture Platonic version of heaven just barely is. A lot of what we "know" about heaven and hell comes from Milton and Dante, not the Bible. There are several different words in the New Testament that all get translated as hell, and that is absolutely not what they mean. Tartarus, sheol, gehenna, and hades are all very different things. Likewise, heaven is usually imagined as disembodied souls floating on clouds playing harps, but the New Testament doesn't say that. It talks about the resurrection of the body on the last day. It doesn't say very much about what happens between death and that time, except implying that God will make sure we're taken care of.
If you want to know about heaven, I'd start with Eden. People will say it's a metaphor, and so it was, but it's a true metaphor. Look at where the project was going, with humans naming the animals and caring for the earth. Adam wasn't a disembodied soul. He was a real, physical man. He ate food. He had a job and a companion. What he didn't have death and disease and a corrupt world. The fruit of knowledge was good fruit. To become like God (so far as that's possible for humans) is what God desires. But Adam wasn't ready for it. There was coming a day where he would be.
Hell, on the other hand, is less clear. I don't think it's fire and brimstone. I think it's simply that some people will choose to walk away from God, and God will honor that choice. Or, an alternative view, heaven and hell are actually the same thing: The unfiltered light of God. For those who love God that will be heaven, and for those who try to reject God that will be hell.
The best hypothetical vision of heaven and hell is, I think, The Great Divorce. CS Lewis is very clear that it's no more than an artist's rendition, at best, but I think he got closer than anybody else in 1500 years or so. I think it's on Project Gutenberg, and it's not terribly long. But he's an audio reading.
Hell isn't a Biblical idea, and the pop-culture Platonic version of heaven just barely is. A lot of what we "know" about heaven and hell comes from Milton and Dante, not the Bible. There are several different words in the New Testament that all get translated as hell, and that is absolutely not what they mean. Tartarus, sheol, gehenna, and hades are all very different things. Likewise, heaven is usually imagined as disembodied souls floating on clouds playing harps, but the New Testament doesn't say that. It talks about the resurrection of the body on the last day. It doesn't say very much about what happens between death and that time, except implying that God will make sure we're taken care of.
If you want to know about heaven, I'd start with Eden. People will say it's a metaphor, and so it was, but it's a true metaphor. Look at where the project was going, with humans naming the animals and caring for the earth. Adam wasn't a disembodied soul. He was a real, physical man. He ate food. He had a job and a companion. What he didn't have death and disease and a corrupt world. The fruit of knowledge was good fruit. To become like God (so far as that's possible for humans) is what God desires. But Adam wasn't ready for it. There was coming a day where he would be.
Hell, on the other hand, is less clear. I don't think it's fire and brimstone. I think it's simply that some people will choose to walk away from God, and God will honor that choice. Or, an alternative view, heaven and hell are actually the same thing: The unfiltered light of God. For those who love God that will be heaven, and for those who try to reject God that will be hell.
The best hypothetical vision of heaven and hell is, I think, The Great Divorce. CS Lewis is very clear that it's no more than an artist's rendition, at best, but I think he got closer than anybody else in 1500 years or so. I think it's on Project Gutenberg, and it's not terribly long. But he's an audio reading.
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Sheol is the afterlife Jews believed in for most of the Old Testament. Some believed in no afterlife at all, but most believed in Sheol. It was sort of like a land of ghosts, people not quite taken by oblivion but not really alive or fully awake. No reward, no punishment, just where everybody went after death. By the time of Jesus (as in, before his birth) Jews had mostly replaced this with a belief in the resurrection of the body. The general Christian view of Sheol is that if something like that did exist, it was emptied by Jesus when he was resurrected.
Gehenna refers to a real place on earth called the Valley of Gehennom. You can go there today. Jesus uses it as a metaphor for judgement, specifically fire. There's some dispute as to why. Some scholars say it was a place where they burned garbage, others that it was a place used for sacrifices to pagan gods. Either way it means more or less the same thing. "If you don't follow God, you'll be burned away." The warning of judgement should be taken seriously, but this specific kind of language wasn't uncommon among Jewish prophets and shouldn't be taken fully literally.
Hades and Tartarus are both Greek concepts. Hades is a shadowy underworld similar to Sheol. Tartarus is more similar in concept to a fire and brimstone hell. They're both non-existent and used only in a metaphorical way.
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Any other esoteric terms that a lot of modern Christians don't know/like to forget about?
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- May 9, 2017
I don't know about terms, I don't actually know Koine Greek. This is just stuff I've learned from reading.
You'd probably have to be a little more specific. And keep in mind I'm just some asshole on the internet.
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What's your views on stuff like Purgatory? Or more Apocrypha tier stuff like The Nephilim or Limbo?
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- May 9, 2017
Well... for purgatory, this is just my personal opinion. The concept is sound. Whatever bad tendencies we're left with at the end of life are going to have to be removed somehow before we're ready for paradise. Really, the only question is whether it's going to be immediate or over time. I think probably immediate, but I could be wrong.
The Nephilim are definitely in the Bible, although WHAT they are is disputed. I don't really have a strong view on it. They COULD be sons of demons, but I just don't think there's enough information either way.
Generally when I think of Apocrypha I think of the non-canonical gospels/epistles. I don't find much value in them besides a historical curiosity, and I say that more from a historical standpoint than a theological one. Even most non-Christian scholars recognize they're not terribly valuable, with only Thomas being somewhat interesting. I do think Maccabees deserves more attention though, especially from Protestants.
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I think that Nephilim descendents would kind of explain extremely evil and callous yet strangely long lived and inhuman looking people like Soros, Kissinger, and Schwab.
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Well, even were that true, Satan doesn't need to much help. There is a good lecture by an exorcist the topic of the demonic.
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While literally Cristian fan-fiction, I like Dante Alighieri interpretation of heaven and hell, The Divine Comedy. As the name suggests, Dante himself is the absolute Chad that is chosen by God to track through all the domains. While his enemies are all virgins that must perpetually endure sadistic torture for all time. It might not be accurate, but it's entertaining.