Helldivers 2 - Hell is more diverse than ever as PlayStation's demographics continue to grow and change.

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not william stenchever said:
The motive isn't ulterior. The person in charge of balance is on record saying that they look at spreadsheets of what gear people are using and he nerfs the most popular shit. I'm not going to outright say that he derives sexual pleasure from preventing people from having fun and he wears programming socks while doing it but I will imply it.
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Weird thing about that is they nerfed the crossbow, which nobody was using really. Now it's even worse even less people use it. It's totally mindboggling and baffling.

My only conclusion is the balance dude just doesn't like crossbows.
 
Back me up! said:
Just random bug fixes.

I feel like the devs (or at least the CEO) knows the honeymoon period is over after the Sony crap and the latest lack luster warbond so they really need to think about what to do next.
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If I were him I would be handing out paid OT (although he is a Euro so he can't probably). They need all hands on deck. The first thing they should do is buff primaries, especially the munitions ARs/medium pen AR. It shouldn't be fucking hard to tweak a couple of values in a config or a DB somewhere. If they end up being a little OP so what, you are giving people what they want and this is a placation move and a stall tactic anyway. Oh and they need to just revert the spawn change, obviously the math was as it was for a reason... or even better just make the call in animations for drops and breaches longer/interruptible.

In the mid-term they need to hype the Illuminate and they need the drop to be fun and exciting. They need to tease the remaining fanbase with lore and propaganda and lead up events and when they drop it everything needs to be running and feeling fun. It is their pocket ace and the last card they can play to keep the game alive and bring people back in. I also feel that if they don't drop the Illuminate in the fall it will be too late and they might not want to do it in high summer either.
 
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CircuSphere said:
or even better just make the call in animations for drops and breaches longer/interruptible.
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They are interruptible but you have like less than a second and have to basically already be aiming at the patrol when they start. Localization confusion among other things allegedly makes this 10% longer (so like 0.08 seconds?). They could make it be a flat extra second so you can actually react and make that a more attractive draw because the only people who actually run it are on 8-9 because the big thing it does is I believe it forces them to be unable to call in another reinforcement for longer, there's an internal clock of sorts between ability to call and it extends that.
 
xXEddie.DurellXx said:
I do really hope that they can turn it around it sucks to see such a good concept wasted for essentially no good reason
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I think they would have weathered a lacklustre war bond and ongoing technical problems if not for Sony taking a huge shit on the game at the same time. That really was the turning point. Wasn't helped by snarky and insulting CM and dev comments which seem all too common across the industry nowadays.

One of these alone isn't a big deal. All of them at the same time is a problem.
 
CircuSphere said:
If you guys want the uncomfortable truth, the game is falling off because the skinner-box is broken. The maps are repetitive and there are no longer worthwhile goals to grind toward. When a new bond releases if you have been banking points you unlock everything in like 2-3 days and you are left bored again (especially if the guns don't shake up the meta at all). The galactic progress map is supposed to aid in retention (you want to see where things are going right?) but it progresses approximately twice a week and doesn't happen as a direct result immediately following your actions. Therefore it simply does not deliver enough dopamine.

Furthermore even if they fix the game and magically deliver a ton of content the routine is now broken, the treat dispenser has been dry too long and there isn't a force of habit driving people to log in day after day. The Sony thing also broke habit for a lot of people myself included.

Going forward the audience is sycophants and people who have formed social habits/connections around the game and even those people will start to get bored eventually. I'm having less and less fun but I still get an itch to play, just not nearly as consistently... maybe I will go back to Enshrouded or progress my Hardcore Henry playthrough of Kingdom Come.
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This is why a lot of the big games that want long-term retention over years put in shit like dailies to keep players in the box so they are trained not to break the cycle through the use of FOMO. The problem is that they put in 1 "daily" personal order and all it does is reward medals. If you've been playing a bunch, you already have enough medals to not care. If you decide to not play for like 2 weeks, you'll log in and have a bunch of medals from major orders dumped on your lap, so you don't feel like you're missing out.

The trick a lot of games like this do is to make the daily give a small pitiful amount of "premium currency" so free-2-play players keep going, so that would be like 10-20 super credits a daily. The problem is that they nuked the warbonds to the point that people aren't excited about them and the only other thing you can spend "premium currency" on is the like 7 or so armor+helmet combinations in the shop that don't have any unique modifiers. They're just not putting out enough content and the content they are putting out gets a resounding "meh" like Polar Patriots.
 
Setting aside how just handing out nerfs according to usage statistics is an abhorrent way to balance games, it's baffling why the devs would be so autistic about weapon balance in a game that isn't even PvP. Some weapons are inevitably going to be meta; others will be suboptimal but maybe run by people who want to do something different. As long as there's a decent variety of choice and one weapon doesn't completely trivialize combat, then leave it be.
 
This whole mess with Sony and these balance patches have completely gutted some of my friends' interest in the game. It's a shame too, since I can still hop on and do a few missions and still have some fun, but any day now I just expect the hammer to drop again and butcher more weapons.

On the other hand I can't wait to pirate Ghost of Tsushima day one. Thanks for no DRM, Sony.
 
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Are there any thread posters that played through all phases of Helldivers 1? I'd like to know how the lifecycle compares to Helldivers 2.

For those unaware Helldivers 1 had a set of bi monthly then yearly 'expansion' updates that added more shit and a new set of DLCs. Of particular note the DLC in the original Helldivers gave paying players a reasonable head start over non paying players, skipping some of the sample grind to unlock fun stuff by unlocking side-grades and unique weaponry immediately on purchase.

With the state of Helldivers 2's playerbase in a slow but steady decline only three months from launch, in my opinion heavily exacerbated by the Sony stuff and then compounded by the developer and community manager messaging being hostile at worst and condescending at best, I'm wondering what their course correction plans are.

Messaging from the CEO implies he of all people is the one listening to feedback and is now tard wrangling- hopefully cracking the whip at the same time. Those original developer reddit posts about HD2 'not being a power fantasy' and similar claims really seem to be true with how the balancing team is all nerf no buff. You can summon orbital lasers and air strikes on command, what do you mean it's not a power fantasy?

Sped developers aside I'm assuming they're banking on renewed interest after dropping a huge content patch containing the Illuminate faction. Especially because their models and music are already in the game. I remember reading some discussions pre-launch allegedly from testers saying that when they were testing the game the Illuminates were available and functioning, so who knows if that's true and they've been content rationed or if it was lies.

One of the only useful pieces of information Overwatch ever gave us (that I cannot for the life of me find again) was the playercount statistics long term. Each time Overwatch put out an event, player numbers would skyrocket after slow long term attrition. Short term increase with minor long term gains once the initial sales rush settled. Path of Exile developers did a GDC talk about the logistics of running and developing a live service game and they had some interesting data to show regarding new leagues and how they affected player numbers. I recommend the rest of the presentation for the insights on live service games. The PoE talk can't truly apply to Helldivers since there's no progress resets but there's a clear pattern with live service where each update should spike playercounts. Arrowhead fucked this up massively with the latest warbond but they have heeded PoE's advice of players 'knowing exactly when they're coming back' with the monthly warbond drops.

I expect Arrowhead will try something akin to HD1's 'expansion' updates, sticking a tag on the end of the game's name. Something like: 'Helldivers 2: Lights in the Dark' or something to that effect for the Illuminate. Verdict is out on whether modern consooomers can understand that it's not a new game and just a subtitle.

For reference the original HD1 expansions were:
  1. Turning Up The Heat (2 months after their 2015 launch. Adds vocanic planets, one new enemy for every faction, three objective types, strong arm perk, three DLC packs)
  2. Masters of the Galaxy (4 months after 2015 launch. Adds Boss enemies for every faction and three DLC packs)
  3. Democracy Strikes Back (6 months after 2015 launch. New wave defense mission type, rank cap increase, two DLC packs)
  4. A New Hell (3 years after launch, this update drops in 2018. No new DLC packs, difficulties 13-15, three new enemies and one variant, machinegun stratagem)
  5. Dive Harder (4 years after launch, dropped 2019, in collaboration with a secondary studio. New game mode, Saber melee weapon, balance changes, new capes, QoL loadout features)
Do you, kiwifarms user, think Arrowhead dropping a giant content patch with a new faction and (hopefully) properly rebalanced for fun guns would reinvigorate the playerbase? Would they need more objectives, map types such as urban or heavy forest, guns and stratagems? Possibly the land vehicles that are mostly functional in game and spawnable by script kiddies? A new free warbond?

For me it'd be all of those. They need to shake up the game pretty substantially since the only new things of worth have been flying enemies and factory striders. They either committed too hard to content drop planning and piecemealing or have spent the 8 years of development they had largely fucking around. I'm expecting overhauls of most systems too - sample farming for the 4th tier of ship upgrades seems like a monumental waste of time, and as the armory balloons in size the UI containing it is going to need to change before becoming a slog to navigate. When you start putting the game under scrutiny it really feels more and more like an early access game. Just one with apparently 8 years of development and a Sony partnership.
 
All right, so I got some use in on the Purifier, and I'm prepared to give my thoughts.

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Prior to me getting this weapon, I had heard, alternately, from different people that it was either completely irredeemable trash and that it was also the greatest weapon since the Eruptor, and a weapon doesn't get a polarized rep like that without damn good reason. So I happily bought the thing and gave it a thorough test. Suffice to say *both* perspectives are accurate, though probably not in the way people are expecting, so let me explain.

The Purifier is a long-range Plasma-delivery weapon. It cannot fire at all unless you charge it (charging takes less than half a second), and like the Plasma Punisher, it has a low, arcing trajectory. However, unlike the Plasma Punisher, this fucking thing launches that thing at what is basically a straight-shot trajectory until it goes like 200 meters, and only then does gravity deign to intrude upon its trajectory. This effectively makes it a Plasma gun you can snipe with, and greatly emphasizes marksmanship; players familiar with Explosive Crossbow sniping are going to know exactly what I mean with this one. You can easily line up and fire a targeted plasma shot that deals immense damage and hits a weak spot for more damage, with an explosion that penetrates medium armor. Not only this, but the explosion is pretty big and has immense impact, enough to throw a Scout Strider backwards if it doesn't kill the pilot outright. Against Devastator variants this thing reliably kills in 2 to 3 shots, and it can even lay out those fucking Brood Commanders without too much trouble. On open battlefields, it's a very nice weapon to have. It also has a very generous magazine for the type of weapon it is, even larger than the Scorcher's.

All of this is offset by two big downsides: Blast damage effecting the player at close range, and the need to charge making it have basically the same downsides as the DMRs. This weapon offers immense potential in the hands of the players who genuinely like fighting that way (especially when battling bots), but for most of the playerbase that's asking a bit too much brainpower. Anyone familiar with dedicated DMR mains in HD2 can vouch for the level of devastation one of those clowns can cause when backed up properly, so this weapon absolutely does not suck, but its very specific playstyle means most are just going to be better-suited by something more conventional (like the Scorcher).

If you want something different, give it a shot. I'd love it if it had the ability to shoot weak uncharged shots, but as it stands it's still decent and way better than I was expecting.
 
I'm Really Feeling It said:
I'm no player but it's quite interesting to follow the balance debate around this game. Reminds me well of Path of Exile.
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Yep same damn problem, not only are they nerfing items because they're popular, but it also feels like they're balancing around what the no lifers are using. Having fun skills and items nerfed into the ground just because a streamer found a broken/powerful/fun build completely ruined Poe for me, and it's happening again here.
 
titty skeleton said:
Do you, kiwifarms user, think Arrowhead dropping a giant content patch with a new faction and (hopefully) properly rebalanced for fun guns would reinvigorate the playerbase? Would they need more objectives, map types such as urban or heavy forest, guns and stratagems? Possibly the land vehicles that are mostly functional in game and spawnable by script kiddies? A new free warbond?

For me it'd be all of those. They need to shake up the game pretty substantially since the only new things of worth have been flying enemies and factory striders. They either committed too hard to content drop planning and piecemealing or have spent the 8 years of development they had largely fucking around. I'm expecting overhauls of most systems too - sample farming for the 4th tier of ship upgrades seems like a monumental waste of time, and as the armory balloons in size the UI containing it is going to need to change before becoming a slog to navigate. When you start putting the game under scrutiny it really feels more and more like an early access game. Just one with apparently 8 years of development and a Sony partnership.
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Without any evidence to suggest this is the case, I think the game was shat out without any consideration for the long term. The junk they're drip feeding us now was in my mind probably the plan from the beginning. Half the Internet purchasing the game was unexpected and threw a wrench into how they initially planned to support the game. I don't think that they're equipped to support the game properly. Going back to points @Gilgamesh! and @CircuSphere raised yesterday about how they've kneecapped themselves when it comes to doing content in excess of what's currently been dropped going forwards, I'd take a wild guess that it wasn't a coincidence that the cracks in the game began to really show a few weeks before the big nerfs and the PSN debacle. I'd bet that behind the scenes, the pilestedt guy is shitting his pants and cracking his whip trying to morph things into something they were never intended to be. Whether or not he actually gets those things is a toss up based on the statements made by chucklefucks like the balance guy. He might want the game to be something cool and I get passionate vibes from him but seemingly everyone else whose said anything at all has come off as a self important cunt at best and a malicious culture warrior at worst. They probably need to hire more personnel but it's not like much needed systems like proper galactic conquest and real time supply lines get added overnight. There are things pilestedt could say to alleviate some of the anxiety but like I said, who knows if he gets anything beyond the current rollout.

tl;dr I think Arrowhead severely underestimated the success of the game and now they're grappling (poorly) with increased expectations and scrutiny while retards from within make their jobs more difficult.

Now to address your actual point, I think that this current trend of drop fed enemies and stratagems plus a monthly warbond has already outstayed its welcome. I'd much rather have large semi annual content drops. Despite the raking it's getting right now, the game has done enough right that I think they understand that going in on seasonal content/battle passes and fomo bs would kill their game. People are sick of those trends and I've played enough Destiny 2 to know I'd never touch another battle pass again. Having periods of content drought and low activity is normal and they can keep releasing super credit gear and whatnot but warbonds alone and a new enemy every other month isn't exactly going to be encouraging me to spend some time every night playing a map or two. Not anymore.

What the game really needs is a 2.0 patch - a revision to armor, to mission types, to modifiers, to ship modules, to environmental interactions, to map generation etc. No need to overcomplicate it with an excessive number of systems but players currently see the extent of the game quite quickly and they're not missing much by dropping the game for a while. If they could confirm something like that, I could see it washing away all the bad blood but once again, it might just not be possible. It'd be a huge undertaking but right now they're in the best position to do it that they're ever going to be in.
 
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