How hard it is to become a small scale farmer?

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The Saltening

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How hard would it be to buy a plot of land and do small-scale farming for a living? I was just chilling and evaluating life and I thought about this. That primitive urge to just fuck off and do something that looks way more appealing than normal life. No more gaming, no more bullshit, just working with the land and touching grass.

I am talking like maybe a couple acres for a variety of plants and maybe some animals. I am not too big on having animals aside from ducks and chickens.

Not big scale huge fields of corn (thats fucking gay). Is this even possible? Or would I also need to be a wage slave as well?
 
The average hobby farm (less than 50 acres) losses anywhere from $30k to $50k a year. You will need to make full time wages while working on your farm mostly full time. You don't get profitability until you're into huge fields of corn and even then you'd be below poverty. I hope you got good passive income methods.
 
Start with a garden. Farming and animal husbandry are both very hard to break into and make work.
 
The average hobby farm (less than 50 acres) losses anywhere from $30k to $50k a year. You will need to make full time wages while working on your farm mostly full time. You don't get profitability until you're into huge fields of corn and even then you'd be below poverty. I hope you got good passive income methods.
This is what I feared. I hate working a job so much. Even the jobs that start good just seem to sizzle out. I always get to a point where there is no opening for moving up and that same time the work I do I have mastered and nothing is challenging anymore. I need constant upward movement or I get bored and go somewhere else looking for upward movement. Just want to do something else. Either my own thing or I need to find the golden opportunity where upward growth is actually plausible. It feels like I have to job hop just to get more challenging work.
 
Farming is a good job if you want to work really long days and constantly be in debt up to your eyeballs. You've gotta hit huge scale before you start making a profit, and that's not really something you do as a private citizen. I'd recommend you pick up a trade like electrician or plumber, you can learn that over a few years, then parlay that into being a GC for renovations, then new construction, and eventually become a developer, where there are always bigger and better projects to strive for.
 
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I am a farmer. I still have a day job, but I have almost reached the stage where I make more money from sales than I spend on my mortgage. Within maybe five more years, I hope to be able to quit said outside job. I have been on this land for over three years, and I've been farming for more than a dozen. I won't be "below poverty," at least. My wife has already quit her outside job.

I don't want to say exactly what size my land is, because that feels like PII, but I will say that it's larger than the 160 acres of homestead era. For those not used to thinking in acres, 160 is a square a quarter mile on each side. When I finish paying my land off, I can definitely "retire" to just working on my farm every day, to give you some idea how much debt I have.

Animal agriculture takes a longer time to build up to strength, as animals take time to breed. Sodbusting requires a higher equipment investment up front, but can be at full capacity more quickly.

You'll need to learn master's degree level knowledge in your chosen specialty, and you really do need to specialize, as a commercial farmer. Not just "should I focus on cattle," but "what breed should I raise" and "seedstock, show, cow-calf, or calf stocking?" Have laser focused production goals, understand your local ecology, and know how to market your animals or crops, and how to sell them to that market.

So how hard is all that? Not hard at all. I think about farming all day at work and I spend all my free time working on my farm, because I absolutely love it, the good times and the bad. It is my calling, and my autistic obsession. My farm brings me profound joy and meaning, and I'm so excited for my kids to grow up here.

I got into this shit to dodge taxes and make a few extra bux. It can be done, but it's not a cheat code to not working. If the thing you hate is working, stay far away.
 
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The average hobby farm (less than 50 acres) losses anywhere from $30k to $50k a year. You will need to make full time wages while working on your farm mostly full time. You don't get profitability until you're into huge fields of corn and even then you'd be below poverty. I hope you got good passive income methods.
are hobby farms large enough to feed a small family at least?
 
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You can feed a small family off of just a few acres. You just won't make any money, doing that, unless you're into intensive horticulture and can sell your produce at an "organic farmer's market" markup. If you want to go into commercial agriculture, you need space, generally.

I think everyone who has the space should at least try gardening. It's a way better use of labd than sterile monoculture lawns.

People misunderstand what farming "losses" are. My farm "lost" about $90k last year. I don't make that kind of money. The losses shown on paper are bullshit for Uncle Sam. Not fraud, just the bullshit way the IRS communicates. There's 10 year depreciation of tools that last 50 years, and 5 year depreciation on the theoretical sale price of animals you bred who will live for 10. I rent my land to myself in a very confusing yet actually legal and (lawyer logic) logical way. I actually *did* spend more than I made, but I wound up better for the deal, and I didn't spend no niny tousan dolla.
 
are hobby farms large enough to feed a small family at least?
Yes and no. In theory you can feed a family from a couple of acres (we did it for millennia) but in reality what you can do is reduce food costs by a garden, chickens, a few pigs, and maybe a cow or something.

I know families that spend a tiny fraction of what the average American does on food because they have an efficient garden with high cost items (no need to grow potatoes when you can get a ton of them for nearly nothing) and animals that eat left over food garbage (animals that you have to pay to feed are almost always losers). But to go from there to actually making money is hard as hell. From the local farmer’s market the way to do it seems to be bees and honey and even they you’re talking small monies.

However, if you can get just above break even it stops being a hobby and is technically a business and you can use it to milk the government teat until that thing goes dry.

Also by reducing your expenses you can reduce your income to below the poverty line at least on paper, and start milking the teats even harder.
 
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are hobby farms large enough to feed a small family at least?
I'd ask yourself what your goals are. Do you want to be 100% self sufficient? I think that's more or less a fools errand. You can grow almost all of your fruit and veg on an acre or so. You'll need a few acres to run chicken tractors (look it up), cows and maybe goats and pigs. Will you be slaughtering and butchering everything yourself? Do you really want to do that yourself? Many of these things can be source from local farmers/ranchers you vetted, making you local community sufficient not self sufficient. Either way, you'll still want to buy mayonnaise, olive oil, fruit you can't grow in your climate, clothes, shampoo, etc from the store.


If you're after food quality not self sufficiency you don't need much room at all. You can grow all your high nutrient plants on a large apartment balcony, Tomatoes, peppers, cucumber, berries, leafy greens, etc are all packed with nutrients and require minimal room compared to things like potatoes and grains which are high calorie and require lots of room. Source your meat from a vetted local rancher, eat lots of your high nutrient crops and buy your "blank" calories from the grocery store.


If you want to escape the rat race and live off the land, you'll need sufficient capital to buy the land, infrastructure and equipment outright or work a job until you can pay it all off. Hopefully you have mountains or hilly areas around you, that land is much cheaper and can work just as well for small scale farming, It's cheap because you can't run rows of corn and a tractor on it efficiently and it's too far out for city slickers to dive up prices. In fact, most flat land has already had its soil depleted and mountain or hilly soil is still lush and just waiting for you to pop some veg in.
 
are hobby farms large enough to feed a small family at least?
If you can farm 1 acre / person, you'll satisfy 70% of your caloric needs with high yield crops like potatoes and corn. This is without livestalk.
My goal is 33% of my caloric needs (b/c I want to grow low-yield crops too like spices) and I'm struggling to hit 10% on my acre right now (it's also my first serious year so YMMV).
 
Yes and no. In theory you can feed a family from a couple of acres (we did it for millennia) but in reality what you can do is reduce food costs by a garden, chickens, a few pigs, and maybe a cow or something.

So I was thinking more in line with reducing food costs by growing my own fruits, veggies and eggs and maybe grow "speciality foods" that are hard to get in store (heirloom vegetables and tomatoes and the like). My dream house would be somewhere that has a couple acres. a big ham radio station, solar panels, two or three outbuilding small ones, but also is close enough that I can return to civilization pretty easily if I want to.
 
Eggs are insanely easy to do, chickens is basically pigs/rats and will eat grass, too.

Fruit and veg is more local and depends on what you can support in your climate, but can be done pretty easily.

Build the damn walls well! Pests and animals will come from miles around to eat your shit.
 
So I was thinking more in line with reducing food costs by growing my own fruits, veggies and eggs and maybe grow "speciality foods" that are hard to get in store (heirloom vegetables and tomatoes and the like). My dream house would be somewhere that has a couple acres. a big ham radio station, solar panels, two or three outbuilding small ones, but also is close enough that I can return to civilization pretty easily if I want to.
Yes that is very doable. I know many people who have. If you don't have any lofty goals like 100% off grid or 100% self sufficient, you can get into a place, take on a little at a time and you should be able to a very respectable setup in a few years that you can be proud of.

I really advise against totalitarian goals, especially for people with no experience because you're just setting yourself up for failure once you get into it and it turns out to not be like you imagined. But keep an open mind and you can easily achieve a humble dream like you outlined.
 
How hard would it be to buy a plot of land and do small-scale farming for a living? I was just chilling and evaluating life and I thought about this. That primitive urge to just fuck off and do something that looks way more appealing than normal life. No more gaming, no more bullshit, just working with the land and touching grass.

I am talking like maybe a couple acres for a variety of plants and maybe some animals. I am not too big on having animals aside from ducks and chickens.

Not big scale huge fields of corn (thats fucking gay). Is this even possible? Or would I also need to be a wage slave as well?
You really gotta lock down a client base. Also this is California where it's easy to farm (low disease pressure) with a min-max efficency strat. They say he earns six figures so that's probably 100k. If this was like East/Central Texas or East coast good luck without heavy pesticide usage. Farms that earn under 350k a year are most easy to go down in the USDA data.

Biggest recurring costs for a farmer in the US are:
Equipment (incl gas+diesel), labor,chemicals, and transportation to market if your bumfuck nowhere. Lots of folk won't pay for healthier food.
 
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Yes that is very doable. I know many people who have. If you don't have any lofty goals like 100% off grid or 100% self sufficient, you can get into a place, take on a little at a time and you should be able to a very respectable setup in a few years that you can be proud of.

I really advise against totalitarian goals, especially for people with no experience because you're just setting yourself up for failure once you get into it and it turns out to not be like you imagined. But keep an open mind and you can easily achieve a humble dream like you outlined.
got any books or resources you recommend?
 
got any books or resources you recommend?
I've read a lot of books, mostly about permaculture. If you're unfamiliar with that, it's an ethics based gardening system made up by a 60 year old, hippy, coot in the 80's. So it certainly comes with its fair share of bs. These days, most people don't even know it's an ethics system and use it to describe a particular style of gardening.
Gaias's Garden is the only book I'd recommend that I've read and it's about permaculture so beware.

Otherwise, just start getting experience. It's not a science, it's like a trade job, you learn as you go. If you don't have land, try to find community gardens or see if you can volunteer an afternoon on a local farm. Even just growing peas in a window like Null did is going to be worth more than watching videos or reading books, I imagine.
 
I am a farmer. I still have a day job, but I have almost reached the stage where I make more money from sales than I spend on my mortgage. Within maybe five more years, I hope to be able to quit said outside job. I have been on this land for over three years, and I've been farming for more than a dozen. I won't be "below poverty," at least. My wife has already quit her outside job.

I don't want to say exactly what size my land is, because that feels like PII, but I will say that it's larger than the 160 acres of homestead era. For those not used to thinking in acres, 160 is a square a quarter mile on each side. When I finish paying my land off, I can definitely "retire" to just working on my farm every day, to give you some idea how much debt I have.

Animal agriculture takes a longer time to build up to strength, as animals take time to breed. Sodbusting requires a higher equipment investment up front, but can be at full capacity more quickly.

You'll need to learn master's degree level knowledge in your chosen specialty, and you really do need to specialize, as a commercial farmer. Not just "should I focus on cattle," but "what breed should I raise" and "seedstock, show, cow-calf, or calf stocking?" Have laser focused production goals, understand your local ecology, and know how to market your animals or crops, and how to sell them to that market.

So how hard is all that? Not hard at all. I think about farming all day at work and I spend all my free time working on my farm, because I absolutely love it, the good times and the bad. It is my calling, and my autistic obsession. My farm brings me profound joy and meaning, and I'm so excited for my kids to grow up here.

I got into this shit to dodge taxes and make a few extra bux. It can be done, but it's not a cheat code to not working. If the thing you hate is working, stay far away.
I guess I should clarify. When I say work I mean the clock in clock out corpo bullshit type work. I do not hate work. I hate "work". Thanks for the info. A lot to think about in this thread.
 
How hard would it be to buy a plot of land and do small-scale farming for a living?

[...]

Not big scale huge fields of corn (thats fucking gay). Is this even possible? Or would I also need to be a wage slave as well?
Depends on what you mean by this. Any other forum, and I would assume you meant "Can I raise 20,000 acres of corn and sell it for a profit that is worth the full year of 90 hour weeks?"

If that were your question, I'd say "No. You can't do that. People who have been doing it their entire lives, whose families have been doing it for a century, who have millions of dollars in capital like large tractors, combines, infrastructure and of course real estate fail all the time at that, and you're not so talented you could start doing it tomorrow with no resources and no experience. That's a fool's question." But you're here in self-sufficiency. You're probably asking a very different question.

You're really asking "Hey, I like to eat, and food isn't magical. Someone, somewhere grows it, and those people aren't rocket scientists so why can't I grow my own food?" And yeh, you can. There are some stumbling blocks, but those aren't so bad. The biggest stumbling block is, despite what it looks like, this has changed in the last 100 years. In 1924 a family trying to grow their own food had some limitations that you just don't have, but you all still operate as if you have those limitations. (They also had some advantages you don't have... cheap land, even in some cases free land, for instance, but there's no point in pouting about it.)

Like them, you can grow a vegetable garden. Most of the same vegetables (with a few superior varieties). Things you like to eat, tomatoes and potatoes and salad lettuce and so on. If you have a suburban home, you can do it right now (well, next spring), even a tiny yard is enough to get started. You need some practice. But if you don't have this, it might be worth trying to grow a tomato plant or two in a pot on a balcony or inside in a sunny south-facing window.

If you have a rural home (or plan to get one), you can have some animals. Chickens are easiest to start with, but a hog or goat's not too crazy to start with. Your biggest limitation here is real estate. Your second biggest limitation is feed. Animals though give you another big category of food (and potentially other goods, like wool), a category that people derive alot of joy out of. No one wants to be some hippy vegans (not even the vegans, they long for suicide without realizing it).

That's about as far as most people try. And it's sort of silly, if you ask me. The third category, that most people shy away from (like you, in your post) is grains. Corn's not quite the villain people make it out to be. Because without grains (and especially corn), you'll have a hell of a time feeding those animals without spending money. If you only want cows and sheep, hay might suffice (but the same people who get anxiety about an acre of wheat aren't exactly growing an acre of hay either). And you don't want 20,000 acres of this stuff. You just want enough to keep a boar and 1 or 2 sows, enough to raise a few weaners to weight. An acre or two would go a long way. And you don't need a million dollar tractor for this. Something you spent $1500 off of Craigslist plus a few hundred more to get running might do the trick. Back before the massive self-propelling combines were a thing, they actually made combines that were pulled by a regular tractor, that harvest grain (all sorts) to a point where it's ready to feed to animals. They made hay balers like that. And harvesting an acre would take less than an hour. Hell, for the price of a cheap grain mill off of Alibaba, you'd have flour. For the price of a cheap oil press, you'd have vegetable oil (from soy, sunflower, whatever). We're getting a long way here towards barely needing anything from a grocery store. About the remainder...

You also enjoy some other exotic stuff that's not a garden vegetable, pork chop, or sugar cookie. You know what those things are, or can find out if you spent an hour looking it up. Plants that don't grow well outside of the tropics, things that have to be processed in a special way (sugar, for instance). Seafood. These have higher startup costs... farming fish requires thousands of dollars worth of equipment. A decent greenhouse the same. Thankfully, most of these things you consume in small enough quantities that it's not absurd to think you could grow enough for yourself (the only exception, I think, might be coffee, that shit looks like you'd be able to a few cups of beans per year out of a greenhouse). The hard exceptions are rare too (no one south of northern Vermont gets real maple syrup, stuff like that). These things were essentially impossible for someone in 1924. But they're 5 clicks away from seeds (and equipment) on the internet. Dozens of books (and videos and everything else) about how they are grown.

So, while the other posts will tell you how difficult it is to sell any of this at a profit, I want to tell you that you just might be able to manage to not need any cash at all (for the grocery store, anyway). Grow enough for yourself. Close the loop. Tell the taxman he can have 15% of your tomatoes if he fucking wants them.
 
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