🐱 Insisting All Teenagers Look 'Like Children' Will Not Protect Them From Predators

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I've noticed a trend over the last year or so. A lot of feminists have been sort of doing this thing where, when talking about the sexualization of teenagers, they talk about how "real" teenagers still look like children. Some of these people have been friends of mine, people I normally agree with on things, but this is one area where we part ways.

I get it. I totally get it. I get the reasoning behind it. The goal is to pathologize sexual attraction to teenagers — something long encouraged by our society and culture — as just as appalling as attraction to children. If we agree that being attracted to a 16-year-old is no different from being attracted to an eight-year-old, 16-year-olds will be safer and less likely to be targeted by adults. This is probably why, in a recent tweet promoting an article on her Substack, feminist Jessica Valenti wrote that "Real teens look *young*—awkward and pimply, gangly and baby-faced," adding that "Having beautiful, fully-grown, post-puberty grownup actors play teenagers not only can lead to body image issues in actual teens—it makes it easier for adults to sexualize them."

Real teens look *young*\u2014awkward and pimply, gangly and baby-faced. \n\nHaving beautiful, fully-grown, post-puberty grownup actors play teenagers not only can lead to body image issues in actual teens\u2014it makes it easier for adults to sexualize them.
— Jessica Valenti (@Jessica Valenti)1645817675



It makes total sense, logically, except that it's not true and it actually harms some of the teenagers at high risk of being targeted by adults. As if we've never heard anyone say "Well she looked over 18" before. I understand why people feel this is a good point to make, but it also necessitates throwing a whole lot of girls under the bus in order to make it.

Because, let me assure you, there's not just one way to have "body image issues."

Using Valenti's description, I was never a teenager. I barely had a baby face as an actual baby, I never had pimples or acne, and as for gangly, I honestly don't know that I've ever been the kind of skinny required to qualify as "gangly." I do, however, know that I had to wear a bra by sixth grade and was head-and-shoulders taller than most of the guys in my grade by middle school. I looked 25 by the time I was 17, and despite my most valiant efforts, had a voice like Kathleen Turner.

It wasn't great. As street smart as I was, as much of a feminist as I was, as weirdly self-assured as I was, as much as I cognitively understood that the development of secondary sex characteristics had no bearing on my character or intelligence, I internalized a whole lot of bullshit.

My situation was not that unusual. It's certainly something I've commiserated about with other women. One thing we can usually agree on is that the people who were the worst about our situation (in terms of outright cruelty) were other girls, which is why so much of this feels like a bad flashback. But yes, there was also the problem of older men thinking it was acceptable to treat me as though I were an adult woman even though I wasn't, and, frankly, the problem of adults in general just automatically treating me as more of an adult in completely non-sexual situations. When I read things like "it's bad to sleep with teenagers because they look like children," there is a part of me that hears that as "So you're saying it's okay if they don't look like children?" Even though that's not precisely what they mean, it still kind of hurts to hear that. It actually infuriates me, because I can't help but think of what it would feel like to hear that as a teenager.

This, to me, feels like a reframing of the virgin/whore dichotomy that I thought we all (including Valenti) decided a long time ago was grossly sexist and misogynistic.

The fact is, the problem with adults preying on teenagers has absolutely nothing to do with what they look like, physically, and everything to do with where they are likely to be at mentally, in terms of their ability to give informed consent. None of this is an exact science, because people do everything at different rates, but we go with 18 because it's more likely that someone is going to be reasonably mentally and emotionally developed at that point than at 15.

Valenti argues that one way to prevent teenagers from being sexualized on television, and thus in real life, is to have teenagers playing teenagers. But there are problems with that as well, especially when you throw into the equation the fact that #notallteenagers are "pimply, gangly and baby-faced." It seems like it's one thing to have kids on a show like "Full House," it's another when it's supposed to be something that deals with problems that are more serious than "Uh oh! Uncle Jesse has an evil identical cousin!" Also I'm not a big fan of child labor and kind of think it's best to avoid it whenever possible.

It's natural to want things to be more clear, so that everyone knows where the line is, not just legally, but morally. Personally I happen to think it is very unhelpful that the age of consent, as it concerns statutory rape, is not the same in every state. It is hard to imagine this is the kind of thing where geography would matter. But I think this is one area where we kind of just need to be okay with "you don't do this because it is against the law, period, end of discussion." You don't do it if the she looks 12 or she looks 25, you don't do it if she's obviously emotionally and mentally immature, and you don't do it if she's reading Dostoevsky and going to the club every weekend (some of us were multifaceted, okay?). You don't do it if you are manipulating her and you don't do it if she actually issmarter than you are and you feel like she's "manipulating" you. Because you know what? It doesn't matter.

We don't need for all teenagers to look or act the same way for sleeping with them to be wrong and illegal. The onus for this is not on them, it is on adults. Period, end of discussion.
 
what does this even have to do with having kids dress age apropriately?
my mom didn't let me dress adult like until 17 I wasn't even allowed to wear heels and make up until then, basically was that girl who would wear flats and skinny jeans and tshirts and leggings, during their teens, and I was perfectly fine with it, infact I feel bad for girls now a days because theres an intense pressure to look like a baddie ethot only fans girl, its like let kids be kids, let them dress apropriately, stop glorifying self objectification.
 
Why does every article on Wonkette and The Mary Sue start off addressing a wider topic but always wind up being about "Me! Me! Me!" Very strange. Must be what their audiences want, I guess the distance from feminist to narcissist and vice versa is a short hop.
I recall it being explicitly stated many years ago that this was the enforced writing style for Nick Denton's Gawker, to have writers use "I" and insert themselves into whatever they're writing about, sort of like having entertaining video personalities in text form. I think it's this school of thought that got spread around to every other similar enthusiast online outlet, especially since you see so many journalists place Gawker in high regard and lament its death at the hands of Hulk Hogan ant Peter Thiel.
 
The goal is to pathologize sexual attraction to teenagers — something long encouraged by our society and culture — as just as appalling as attraction to children. If we agree that being attracted to a 16-year-old is no different from being attracted to an eight-year-old, 16-year-olds will be safer and less likely to be targeted by adults.

this is the central problem with the liberal culture war strategy, the assumption that you can fight a societal wrong by conflating it with something bad until it goes away. why are more people voting Republican? doesn't matter, if we just call them Nazis enough they'll surely flock to our side! it doesn't work, there's a reason some people are attracted to younger teenagers (modern coomer culture doesn't help), and it supersedes your political ideology and hairbrained understanding of the world. and while I obviously agree teenagers ought to be protected from sexual predation, you're not gonna magically make it go away by wagging your finger and calling people pedophiles. understand the nature of the problem. a postpubescent human is obviously distinct from a prepubescent one. the teenage years are when people are coming online sexually and different people develop at different rates. like the author acknowledges, some people pick up the adult look some time before they're at the actual "adult" age, in which case, the attraction is literally just the natural pattern recognition of the brain at work. and then there are the people who like the transgressive taste of ephebophilia - another aspect of human sexual psychology that's not necessarily dangerous outside of this context of age-related exploitation (i.e. BDSM or any other kind of weird fetish shit). the actual problem, the one we're all acknowledging but not targeting, is mental readiness. forget 18, most people aren't fully neurologically developed until 26 - and critically, the last part of the brain that finishes maturing is the one associated with risk assessment and inhibition. we're saying that anything under 18 is pedophilia, but your 18th birthday is the magic switch - after that, anything goes. people really have kids and get married at 18-20, in the modern world, where you don't have to worry about dying of consumption before you hit 30. the real lesson that needs to be taught, to people of all ages, is that horniness is something that needs to be held at arm's length and only indulged in with careful judiciousness, because just following your sex brain around mindlessly is something that causes a huge number of problems, both individually and societally (disease, unwanted pregnancies, AGP trannies, lol). fucking a 16 year old is obviously not exactly the same thing as fucking an 8 year old. but both absolutely make you a degenerate coomer. don't be a coomer. don't fuck the 8 year old, or the 16 year old.
 
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Most people are not saying teenagers are children, just that they are not mature yet and adults should leave them alone.
I think there are a good amount of women insist on teenagers "looking like children" not so much because they're very young and they're very old, but because they need to demonstrate for their own sakes that they in fact matured beyond their teenage years (because they didn't).

I say that because they also might call people only 1-2 years younger than them "babies" in a way that's at least not explicitly insulting.

Really, they should be saying that teenagers aren't adults and in all likelihood haven't been exposed to the whole gamut of adult experience, but then they'd be firing on themselves.
 
I guess the distance from feminist to narcissist and vice versa is a short hop.
On a true narcissist could think their biological gender, which they got in a literal 50-50 coin flip, is something so unique and Earth-shattering that all of society must make them feel welcome for it.
 
Using Valenti's description, I was never a teenager. I barely had a baby face as an actual baby, I never had pimples or acne, and as for gangly, I honestly don't know that I've ever been the kind of skinny required to qualify as "gangly." I do, however, know that I had to wear a bra by sixth grade and was head-and-shoulders taller than most of the guys in my grade by middle school. I looked 25 by the time I was 17, and despite my most valiant efforts, had a voice like Kathleen Turner.

You must have been popular. You probably didn't need a fake ID to buy beer and cigarettes.

But you were still 17 and therefore a minor. It's really difficult when you look older and men assume you are. or when they know your age and think that you looking older means it's ok or that you are actually that mature.

I don't think TV casting is going to be much of a help though. They could still cast teens that look like the author did. Or 18 year olds that look 12. A perv is a perv. Remember that Mila Kunis lied about her age to get cast as Jackie on That 70s Show. She was 14 and said she was older. I thought she looked really young on the show but I didn't realise she was that young. Haywood Nelson was the only teen on What's Happening (other than Danielle Spencer). He was 14 when the show started and Ernest Lee Thomas and Fred Berry were already in their 20s.

I think a lot of TV shows use a mix. I honestly never noticed Gabrielle Carteris was 30 on 90210. I though Ian Ziering looked a older. Your mileage may vary.
 
Man, this Valenti bitch is STILL at it? I remember her howling away back in Y2K about how Christmas was traumatic to Italian American women or some lunacy like that.

Weirder yet it was a Guardian article aimed at bongs.

Some of these moonbats are so far gone their content actually sticks out in your head for years after you are subjected to it.
 
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Oh god again, the older I get the more weird it is to think about AOC and teenage shit.

From my hazey Gen X past it would be this.

Local Indie band scene, band plays a show at the local place that does allow highschoolers in. (I think they mark your hand if your under 21 or something)

Dude in the band hooks up with a girl turns out she 16 and he s 19. uh oh.

This is totally different than say a 23 year old or fuck a 28 year old playing with a teenager Think Ralph and Faith or even hard core groomers like a highschool teacher openly dating a "former student" after she turns 18.
 
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You know, sure, when I was 19 or even 21, I would occasionally see a girl who was 15 or 16 and think she might be 18 or 19.

Nowadays I see a girl who is 18 or 19 and think she might be 15 or 16. It’s still hard to tell exactly at that age, but I can definitely tell they’re not fully grown yet.
 
You know, sure, when I was 19 or even 21, I would occasionally see a girl who was 15 or 16 and think she might be 18 or 19.

Nowadays I see a girl who is 18 or 19 and think she might be 15 or 16. It’s still hard to tell exactly at that age, but I can definitely tell they’re not fully grown yet.
So what if you have a 15 year old pretending to be a 25 year old pretending to be a 8 year old v tuber?
 
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