Is resurrection possible under materialism?

[We Are The Witches]

Posting this thread because I'm curious about Kiwifarmers' responses. I'm not plotting anything in my secret underground lab, nor I am planning the resurrection of my great army of Joseph Stalins that will one day rule the world. Pinky swear!

---

To elaborate in my question I need to give some sort of introduction:
So under a materialistic perspective that follows a deterministic world and its rules, what is the essence of someone? What makes you, you?

One could argue that there are 2 main aspects to take into consideration that are directly influencing each other. The first aspect would be the physical "world", that is, your body's composition & arrangement, and also your environment, meaning, all external physical influence that will shape your body and mind, as the brain processes stimuli and information in a predictable way under a deterministic point of view, like a computer.
The second would be your conscience, however, your brain, how you're "wired", and how it will react to the information processed will be what will determine how you think, and how you feel; i.e: your consciousness may surpass that which is "material", however it is dictated/ordered by the material; how you feel about "red" or "purple" is on another category than matter or physical substance, but those feelings are ultimately created by that.

If that were to be true, what if by design or coincidence a being "completely" equal as you were to emerge? They'd have the same arrangement of atoms/particles in their body, a perfect copy of you in what is material, and because of it, their brains, memories, experiences, even qualia they're feeling, what/how they are feeling right now being the same as you are. This is a secret, you don't know about their existence and neither they do.
If it's so difficult to imagine, you can think that they've developed in the same way you did, in another distant planet that by coincidence mirrors this one (at least the environment that influenced them), or maybe that they're designed like that with advanced technology, simply by arranging their particles artificially so that they are like you, same memories, same everything.

You could say that the second even the slightest thing does not match between your lives (affecting who you are, not by some technicality: like they're on these coordinates and I'm in these, therefore we're different, even if both environments are practically the same), then you're not the same. Or you could also say that the matter that comprises you both is literally not the same, they have this hydrogen atom in their body, yet you have this identical in form, but different hydrogen atom in your body, therefore, you're both different.
As an addition to that, we can say that you are only you at that point in time, the one you were 1 second/less ago is not you.

What if we're not talking about different beings/identical beings comprised by different matter even with the same arrangement? As in the matter in your body, those exact atoms & particles, on top of being equal in everything else (quantity, ratio, structure, etc), they are also the same? Then it would mean it would have to be literally you? But how is that possible, and at that point, what would be the meaning of this? The point would be if this happened after your death.

After coming to that thought, consider you being born, living your life, and then dying. After millions and millions of years, another planet similar to Earth, is formed. By simple coincidence, society grows just like it did on this Earth, and it spawns someone like you, they literally have your genetic code by coincidence, the environment is the same, etc, shaping their mind and consciousness as it did to you, a "mirror" of yourself.
Would you consider this resurrection? At what point would you? As we've said, not having literally the same particles (you having this carbon atom, and them this other one) could make you say you're different, but what if yet again by coincidence the same ones end up being rearranged into them/you?
At that point, it would be akin to having died, and be rearranged again into a functional body (your "old" body), being dead was a temporal phase, the main difference would be "old you" being born after X seconds after the Big Bang, and "new you" being born after X+Y seconds after the Big Bang.

Then even if that were the case, we can say that the second you eat or breathe the same arrangement of particles as you did in old life, because this "air" or "water" does not have those atoms they did previously, your composition is now "different", even if equal in structure.

But assuming everything ends up being amalgamated exactly as before, we could say that you'd have resurrected. Winning the lottery a decillion times in a row would be more likely, but not impossible, specially if you believe that the universe will continue perpetually, infinitely.

 

[Epic Fail Man]

I would resurrect Bob Chandler if I could.

 

[Dr. Ricearoni]

In all seriousness it's just a really roundabout way of describing the resurrective teleport conundrum. If you take my atoms and reassemble them somewhere is that really me? Well, we can't really answer that because we don't really know what part of us is the part that's consciously us.

 

[We Are The Witches]

In all seriousness it's just a really roundabout way of describing the resurrective teleport conundrum. If you take my atoms and reassemble them somewhere is that really me? Well, we can't really answer that because we don't really know what part of us is the part that's consciously us.

Yeah, I know, what you said reminds me of Michio Kaku when he talked about teleportation:

Spoiler: Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcivmBojzVk

Still, we could say you're the "same"/slightly different, but "evolved", because "1 second ago you" is not the same as current you. However with resurrection, you'd go back to a "previous state", not an "evolved state".

 

[Brightstar777]

Materialism is built upon the false premise that there is no soul, making the entire theory fundamentally flawed. According to this view, the soul, which God created, is ignored, and the belief that it is eternal and can be resurrected—as demonstrated by The Story of Jesus Christ—is denied. At the core of materialism is the assertion that the universe operates as a closed system governed solely by physical laws, with all phenomena, including human consciousness, being reducible to mere brain processes. This view is not only misguided but deeply problematic and evil, as it overlooks the true nature of human existence and the divine purpose of the soul.

 

[lIllllIiiiiLLLLiiiiIIIIll]

"As the ocean waves, the universe 'peoples'". Reincarnation is materially real if you accept that among the billions of human souls who have come and gone and exist today, there are probably lots of people who are spiritually identical to you in all the ways you value as important.

Even if you're one in a million, there's three of you in Ohio. And chuddies just like you will continue to be born.

 

[Rekieta’s Broken Penis]

The soul, quiddity, etc. are spooks under materialism. They don’t exist. Why would you want to be resurrected knowing that you don’t really exist?

 

[Kovachs]

Yes and No.

 

[Preacher ✝]

The Church teaches that the body and soul will be reunited at the resurrection, and that life will begin again.

When a person dies, their soul separates from their body and goes to meet God. The body decays.

Through the power of Jesus' resurrection, God will reunite the soul with the body, granting incorruptible life. This will happen just before the Last Judgment, when Christ returns.

The resurrected body will be the same body a person had in life, except without imperfections. The body will be "spiritual" and dominated by the soul, so it will no longer be able to suffer or die.

The resurrected body will be free from the normal limitations of the physical body, such as tiredness.

The person will be the same person they were before death.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

Under Materialism? No. But something more powerful? Yes.

 

[Kung Pow]

Yes, whatever the essence of matter is, it, somehow, made you being yourself and not another person, not nothing, but also not God.
There is an individuality in there that implies separation.
It also happened at least once, you are alive reading this so it is bound to happen again because the possibility of a self already happened by your existence alone, you are the evidence as much as my experience of my own sense of self also is.

 

[Ultrapenguin]

Idk, is life possible under materialism?
Our idea of ourselves as continuous beings is an illusion to begin with, one which we naturally place a lot of focus on since this weird accident of life and natural selection/evolution which arose by chance on the path to universal entropy favors that.

You're already not really the same person from one day to the next, you're simply one of very similar physical makeup. You can't be resurrected because you don't really exist. Just accept the delusion and quit making problems.

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

Peter van Inwagen, a Christian materialism philosopher, has talked about this. I know that's not exactly what you're asking but it's interesting. Starts about 6:20.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

Not really. If your mind is meat and electrical impulses, as per metaphysical materialism, that unique qualia is destroyed when you die. Reconstituting it, even perfectly, is arguably a sort of cloning. This is why the teleporter in Star Trek is one of the most horrifying and fucked up technologies ever dreamed up. Every time a person uses it, they destroy themselves and a new clone gets created thinking it is the original. There is no way to prove the continuation of consciousness and there is an argument against the idea that the original consciousness continues because it gets broken down (destroyed) each time the teleporter is used.

I have never seen any convincing explanations of how to transfer unique qualia, or how you avoid the identity problem explained above.

 

[Dagoth AMOGUS]

You have to simultaneously re-awaken like 5 million cells all at the same time

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

Depends on "resurrection." One day it may be possible to revive you after being brain dead, like if you stroke out and your brain stops and they drag you to the hospital a few hours later. But if you get vaporized in an explosion, then you're dead for good. The molecules that make up your body are too scattered to ever put back together. Quantum theory shows you cannot predict where to find the molecules, ergo you cannot reassemble the molecules into a human brain.

The only exception to this is Poincare recurrence which demonstrates in the case of our universe that given an infinite amount of time and the infinite quantum world from which particles blink in and out of existance, any structure should be able to self-assemble including human beings, new planets, etc. This mean your molecules are reassembled into a new brain. But it might not be your body. Maybe you get literally reincarnated as a black person. This is just what science says, personally I think this is science being cowardly because it's some of the closest proof we've ever discovered to religion being real.

Materialism is built upon the false premise that there is no soul, making the entire theory fundamentally flawed. According to this view, the soul, which God created, is ignored, and the belief that it is eternal and can be resurrected—as demonstrated by The Story of Jesus Christ—is denied. At the core of materialism is the assertion that the universe operates as a closed system governed solely by physical laws, with all phenomena, including human consciousness, being reducible to mere brain processes. This view is not only misguided but deeply problematic and evil, as it overlooks the true nature of human existence and the divine purpose of the soul.

View attachment 6642613

Believing some Jewish god will resurrect you from the dead and give you a mansion if you worship a long dead rabbi is about as dumb as materialism.

 

[Marc]

A live human body and a deceased human body have the same number of particles. Structurally, there is no difference.



Being as our super knowledgable 'Farmers who trifle with such questions haven't mentioned Theseus' ship or the number of components in a human body perpetually being replaced when pinning down where the god of gaps resides this week, I'll just say that I hope we're resurrected before our cats have eaten our faces.

 

[Meriasek]

Under the assumption that the consciousness is fully determined by the physical body and not significantly affected by quantum mechanical uncertainty, it is entirely possible that a perfect copy of your body has the same consciousness and personality and so on.
Resurrection is then also entirely possible if one could reconstruct the physical neuron state map and all the chemical potentials and connections at the time of a person's death and imprint it on a new brain. The complexity of that task aside, the principle would be possible unless the complexity is so high that even a single reconstruction would surpass certain information density limits, but I don't think that'd be the case given the size of the brain.

 

[Brightstar777]

Believing some Jewish god will resurrect you from the dead and give you a mansion if you worship a long dead rabbi is about as dumb as materialism.

All what you said is failed assumptions, God is not jewish and he doesn't care about your race, looks like all your sources are coming from reddit.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

All what you said is failed assumptions, God is not jewish and he doesn't care about your race, looks like all your sources are coming from reddit.

How are they failed? The only thing that's failed is your phony Jewish religion which can't save a single soul but has damned nation after nation with its evil subversion of the human spirit. No shit God doesn't care about race, that's why he can't be god because a real god wouldn't write Jewish ramblings like Galatians 3:28.