Is the left starting to walk back the trans shit?

skykiii

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Jun 17, 2018
Recently I've had a few debates where the person I was talking to would try to pull this routine:

First the whole "sex and gender are different" canard, and "gender is a social construct, when someone goes trans all they mean is they want the social treatment."

Every time, I'm like "it goes a bit beyond social construct when they're asking for pills and surgery."

So far so normal.

Here's the part that surprises me:

Consistently the follow up has been "Oh, of course they can't change their biological sex."

I have to pause. Of course its true but hearing a leftie come out and say it shocks me.

It makes me wonder if this is a positive sign that we're moving past this particular bit of insanity.
 
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I think it's less that the person you were debating was rejecting trans ideology and more that they aren't familiar enough with it to know all the arguments. Troons present an outer shell of scientific rationalism to people on the periphery of the cult, so that's what most of their allies think trans ideology is. Autists like us who stalk online trans spaces know they don't really believe any of that, but well meaning liberals who aren't that familiar with the trans community do not.
 
They are not honest, they see you as an enemy and think that it's necessary to lie to you. They used to say no teenager was getting SRS or HRT despite there being famous cases of it happening. One doctor was so proud of cutting off breasts of teenage girls that she was posting about it all online. It's all gaslighting.

As you said, if sex can't be changed then why do they mutilate their genitals and take HRT? They say one thing and do the opposite, their lies are so blatant that you can't comprehend how can someone be so bold and shameless. Would you trust Keffals with anything he says? Of course not. But in the beginning he was spouting such obvious bullshit one after another and everyone just took his word for it. All till his " trans allies" got tired of his druggie behavior and turned on him.
 
As someone who is an unorthodox leftoid on many issues (but not wokeshit) I can give you my general impressions. Short story is its actually a much larger divide than it appears from outside.

There's a kind of old school Marxist (jokingly referred to as Paleo-Left) that absolutely loathes postmodern gender stuff and also sees mass migration as negative for workers. You often see them say stuff like 'name a socialist state that abolished prisons, borders, etc'. This faction is solidly on Team TERF. They will be happy to see the issue disappear entirely as its viewed as an annoying distraction/lumpenprole concern.

The 'MAGA Communists' feel the same as above, but are also a meme ideology that often takes socially conservative positions to be contrarian/differentiate themselves across the board as a general principle. They will keep dunking on troons even after it becomes passe.

Then the other side, which is performatively far more radical on social media but whose politics are much more lib-compatible in general, is militantly, obsessively, TRA. It is on some level their main screening issue. This faction is larger and also very very dumb. Teenagers and reddit kidults mostly. They will die before ever giving up this central tenet of their ideology. They are, despite the symbolism they adopt to piss of their parents, basically just postmodern liberals. Sadly, this is the largest faction on the contemporary post-Occupy left today, but it seems to be shrinking. Also, the more unpopular troonery becomes the more they will take it as proof that they are brave and righteous in the face of mass ignorance and they will probably only get more extreme.

Liberals, who I would dispute are meaningfully left but are coded that way in Anglo societies, seem to be pivoting away from trans stuff but as quietly as possible. Just enough to say 'everyone else will kill you but we will protect you so vote for us' to them, but otherwise trying to avoid the issue more and more with time. I think the polling data finally got through that this issue is a loser/gift to conservatives. This is a very large group of people so I suspect overall we will see a mainstream pull away from trans stuff at the national level in time.

One exceptionally tiny faction that is worth mentioning anyway because its so funny are hard tankie left/woke hybrids. Despite what rightoids think, this is a pretty rare combo in my experience but it produces a unique pathology. Basically, people who support any country that hates America and its allies but wokely and still really into culture war stuff on the domestic front. Ignoring the fact that many of those countries are more conservative than the US creates hilarious contradictions like being obsessed with 'literal nazis and bigots' in gaming and cancelling western games for not being progressive enough while also being silent or praising Black Myth Wukong because its Chinese. I think these people are just going to have mental breakdowns and subdivide over which issues are more important.
 
A slow climbdown on the tranny shit has been going on for some time now - it's actually been documented in real time in Stinkditch. There have been a few seismic things that have happened recently that have been monumental Ls for the trans community.

The Cass Report was probably the first bullet in the gun, but I don't think it can be overstated just how much their one-time allies like Stonewall and Pink News walking away from them has hurt the movement. Stonewall funded a lot of pozzed shit in the corporate sphere, and Pink News ran defense for them in the press.

That and, honestly, this trans shit isn't cool any more. For all their talk of 'protecting trans kids', there don't actually seem to be many younger zoomers and Gen Alphas taking up the trans stuff.

I'm optimistic that, in the next ten, maybe fifteen years, this will all just be a blip and everybody will be acting like it never happened and they certainly never supported at the time.
 
I think what should matter the most is how the average individual (who is not a political sperg, the majority of people aren't) views the trans issue. I'm sure you have noticed how uncomfortable the average individual gets when he has to interact with a tranny, though he might say he is supportive of them out of fear of being ostracised. But you won't change the views of a progressive on the matter, mindlessly supporting whichever happens to be the oppressed group of the year is what defines his sense of self. See Queers for Palestine, nevermind that they would be stoned to death the instant they set foot in Gaza.
 
I think about this a lot. It's just such an obvious lie. I don't think you can force people, even naïve libtards, to pretend the "IT'S MA'AM" troon, Lia Thomas, and Barbie Kardashian are women forever. Give me your rainbows.
I have this theory that it has such a strong hold on a large portion of the American left because it doesn't make any sense. It's a test to see whether you are willing to suspend reason in order to maintain in group unity.
 
I honestly believe it'll depend on who wins this election. If Kamala wins then prepare to see an extreme double down on tranny shit through both her and Waltz. However, if Trump wins then I can see the left pulling back on tranny shit. I'm not saying they'll blame it for the reason they lost but I can see them going "Yeah this tranny shit is not worth it." It's also not like trans people are a huge voting block for dems compared to women and non whites so in that way why even bother pandering to them?
 
Fundamentally, there's an ideological gap between second-wave feminists, who believe in empowering women, and post-second-wave feminists, who believe in empowering men to be women, which results in erasure of the gains the second-wave crew feel they've made.

It's all idolatry of the religion of equality, but try persuading them all of that.
 
I think it's less that the person you were debating was rejecting trans ideology and more that they aren't familiar enough with it to know all the arguments. Troons present an outer shell of scientific rationalism to people on the periphery of the cult, so that's what most of their allies think trans ideology is. Autists like us who stalk online trans spaces know they don't really believe any of that, but well meaning liberals who aren't that familiar with the trans community do not.
This
Most normal people don't know basic stuff. For example they think that trans women have all gotten the chop. It's surprising and sometimes peaking to them when they find out many brave and stunning women not only haven't gotten it but don't want to, but still want access to female spaces.
 
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I have this theory that it has such a strong hold on a large portion of the American left because it doesn't make any sense. It's a test to see whether you are willing to suspend reason in order to maintain in group unity.
I've long had a theory that religions all have a "big lie" that they ask people to buy into, and they will take some of the most retarded shit they teach and make it the focus/obsession of their faith as an exercise in mental control. Examples would be trinitarianism to most Christians, transubstantiation to Catholics (yeah it's totes literal Jesus meat), speaking in tongues (Pentecostals), and others.

This retarded shit is the "big lie" of modern progressivism.
 
I have this theory that it has such a strong hold on a large portion of the American left because it doesn't make any sense. It's a test to see whether you are willing to suspend reason in order to maintain in group unity.
It is that, but I also think there are people that so aggressively bought into this stuff without thinking about it and now its a psychological block that they have actually permanently harmed children for pharmaceutical profits. To admit that both publicly and to themselves would be to break their own world view as good people on the right side of history etc etc and maybe even create a kind of crisis. So they have no choice but to double down to protect their entire years long activism on this issues from inducing the biggest wave of horror and guilt possible.
 
the more people have to interact with trannies the less favorable they are to the average person who doesn't pay close attention to politics. this gives the average narcissist tranny less power overall and does make tranny politics less favorable to the general public

however, the majority of leftists will still vaguely support it because they have to give a blanket "you should be free to do whatever you want all the time" response to any societal issue. if they reflected on their views and that caused a change where they happen to agree with the "alt-right", that might take them down the dark path of agreeing with other things that are icky

even if leftists pull back a little, it won't be to a reasonable position. they might agree that children shouldn't be able to transition...but then when they become adults, then they should be able to get all the drugs and surgeries they want and you should be jailed for calling them the wrong pronoun

it will seem reasonable on the surface until you scratch a little and find their core argument is still malevolent, like with most leftist views
 
I've long had a theory that religions all have a "big lie" that they ask people to buy into, and they will take some of the most retarded shit they teach and make it the focus/obsession of their faith as an exercise in mental control. Examples would be trinitarianism to most Christians, transubstantiation to Catholics (yeah it's totes literal Jesus meat), speaking in tongues (Pentecostals), and others.

This retarded shit is the "big lie" of modern progressivism.
Jehovah's Witnesses are autistically obsessed with proving that Jesus died on a stake rather than a crucifix. Which is such obviously made up bullshit, not only is there nothing in Christian doctrine to suggest this, we know for a fact that crucifixes were a very common instrument of execution in Palestine in Jesus's time and execution at the stake is unheard of. But they really insist on this. I guess as far as big lies that religions are fixated on, this one in particular stands out because it seems like such a minor point to not be willing to concede on. But in order to maintain their persecution complex it becomes the most important thing in the world to those in the cult.
It is that, but I also think there are people that so aggressively bought into this stuff without thinking about it and now its a psychological block that they have actually permanently harmed children for pharmaceutical profits. To admit that both publicly and to themselves would be to break their own world view as good people on the right side of history etc etc and maybe even create a kind of crisis. So they have no choice but to double down to protect their entire years long activism on this issues from inducing the biggest wave of horror and guilt possible.
Posting the thing again, Helen Joyce nailed those people here:
 
Have you seen the latest kamala election events? there's twerking and other idiocracy-level crap but there's very little if any talk of trannies and gender. They know that shit could cost them the election so the order from the top-down is to avoid the subject for a while until they win, but after that its back to business as usual.
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I think it's less that the person you were debating was rejecting trans ideology and more that they aren't familiar enough with it to know all the arguments. Troons present an outer shell of scientific rationalism to people on the periphery of the cult, so that's what most of their allies think trans ideology is. Autists like us who stalk online trans spaces know they don't really believe any of that, but well meaning liberals who aren't that familiar with the trans community do not.
Most normies have seen a vagina, but very few have seen the horrors of a neovagina aka: stinkditch, or the eldritch-like frankendog.
Posting the thing again, Helen Joyce nailed those people here:
Does this limey broad not realize most of what she says also applies to women who been shoved into male spaces by people like her? and pooners? or those things are not a problem because it only fucks up men? another case of "my retarded ideology is only a problem when it becomes a problem for me"?
 
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