Is there a rogue like (in the truest sense of the word) that does not excessively punish a lack of foreknowledge - Or is there a rogue like that has implemented game design from the last 5 years versus 40 years ago

[Neodanthril]

I watched this video recently

https://youtu.be/sH5ohcGnRm0?si=jLePRTS3NsT2e6YM

Which is a person intimately familiar with roguelikes and ADOM specifically taking the viewer through a playthrough of the game that is the result of decades of experience with this specific game. One of the first things he does is highlight how most of the classes are either inferior versions of another class or downright terrible. He then goes on to explain how most of the stats and skills in the game are useless because the primary thing you do in the game is kill stuff and stats to do not contribute to you killing things are almost pointless, so there are dozens and dozens of skills that have almost no use in a regular run. Near the end of the video he demonstrates how one can be instantly killed by the final boss in the game because they did not equip specific equipment that you are never told, never even given a hint, to equip the specific item.

I understand that one of the central components of a roguelike is learning things through doing them, but I'm curious if there is one that is not quite so punitive as to allow you to be instantly killed 20 or 30 hours into a run because you simply didn't know that you had to do something until you were killed by it. Would also be nice if they pointed out a little more clearly which character classes were not challenge classes or at least pointed out a little more quickly which ones would be good to start with. Would also be nice if the game had a control scheme that was invented after the mouse and was not heavily dependent on memorizing an excessive amount of key binds to play the game. Does anyone know if such a roguelike exists

 

[CallmeCicada]

I really liked SIL, it's pretty intuitive and I love the low fantasy LoTR setting. It was one of my first rogue likes I ever played and I still play it occasionally.

https://www.amirrorclear.net/flowers/game/sil/

 

[We Are The Witches]

I have not watched the video & am not familiar with ADOM, so I'm probably lacking context to what you're saying, but one of my favourite games is a roguelite (I believe that's the correct term, but unsure).

That would be both of Pokémon's Mystery Dungeons (Red Rescue Team for the GameBoy, and Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky for the DS; both can be easily played in free emulators).

There is no permadeath, closest thing is a mechanic that almost never comes up and is late in game, but it's not too punishing. Has replayability and challenges after you complete the main quests/game, stats matter, versatility of item usage, obviously classes (typing for Pokémon), etc.

If you're talking about roguelikes with permadeath, like Shiren The Wanderer, I am not too knowledgeable about them and not too interested, frankly, because of how time/trial and error consuming they are.

 

[Penis Drager 2.0]

Game's about 20 years old, but OG Liberal Crime Squad is easy to pick up and the cheese strategies don't rely too much on deep knowledge of the game.
Gameplay is about as complex as you want it to be.

 

[Daddy's Angry Juice]

I thought learning through deaths was the whole point of the genre

 

[analrapist]

You might like Desktop Dungeons, which is focused on short little <1h sessions, with the meta game comprising the "real progression". It is more contemporary in terms of design but given its focus on metaprogression, is likely more a "roguelite".

 

[CallmeCicada]

I thought learning through deaths was the whole point of the genre

Yes, but some are more forgiving than others.

 

[Daddy's Angry Juice]

Yes, but some are more forgiving than others.

Fair, the OPs question just seemed kind weird considering the genre. It's like asking for a puzzle game where you don't have to figure out the puzzles.

 

[Stephen Rothman]

Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup has been moving in this direction for some time now, despite being quite old, so you might want to check it out alongside Sil if you want something that still feels like a classic roguelike. I couldn't name a single roguelike that's actually on the level of ADOM's or (even NetHack's) bullshit, those are really the worst "offenders" for what you mentioned.

 

[Jason Wynn]

Dungeons of Dredmor is pretty newbie-friendly. Still challenging as hell, but you don’t need to memorize a metric ton of shit to get going.

 

[Agent Abe Caprine]

Pixel Dungeons.

 

[CallmeCicada]

I couldn't name a single roguelike that's actually on the level of ADOM's or (even NetHack's) bullshit,

CataclysmDDA is pretty up there imo.

 

[Sparkletor 2.0]

I have not watched the video & am not familiar with ADOM, so I'm probably talking out of my ass, but one of my favourite games is a card game (I believe that's the correct term, but unsure).

That would be Solitaire (Solitaire for Microsoft Windows and Spider Solitaire; both can be easily played on Microsoft Windows with minimal ads).

There is no permadeath, closest thing is a mechanic that almost never comes up and is late in game, but it's not too punishing. Has replayability and challenges after you complete the main quests/game, stats matter, versatility of item usage, obviously classes (four different classes or "suits" of cards), etc.

If you're talking about roguelikes with permadeath, like Shiren The Wanderer, I am not too knowledgeable about them and not too interested, frankly, because of how time/trial and error consuming they are.

 

[Stephen Rothman]

CataclysmDDA is pretty up there imo.

Kinda, but it's also a sandbox game without a win condition and the development is a complete clusterfuck that actively makes it worse. They do eventually fix the absolute worst shit (chicken walkers at police checkpoints lmao), but cockatrice corpses are still going to be hilarious a decade or two from now.