Is there any room for non-geniuses in the future?

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KatsuKitty

Stone-Cold Bitch
kiwifarms.net
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Feb 3, 2013
This is something I've been thinking about a lot lately, given my background in information technology. Simply put, is there any room in the economy of tomorrow for people on the left side of the IQ bellcurve?

The common argument that parallels this question is that "technology destroys jobs"; however, if you examine closer, what is really happening is the shifting of jobs from those of lower skill to those of higher skill. This largely happens because anything that is repetitive and mindless (data entry, food service, warehouse work, factory work) is subject to automation. And who is responsible for building the infrastructure that eliminates these jobs? Those who work in fields requiring very strong brainpower. The people who work in these fields are the math whizzes you knew growing up: whenever something was taught in school, they just got it, while you and everyone else labored over problems endlessly to score a B+.

The counter-argument frequently given by champions of automation (not coincidentally, the same geniuses creating these highly-skilled jobs) is that this shift from low-skilled work to high-skilled work will be a largely painless transition, facilitated by an increase in highly rigorous STEM education and training. The troubling observation I've made, however, is that these same pundits assume that the transition from lower- to higher-intelligence work is attainable to anyone who is willing to just study hard enough. But the trouble is, "studying hard enough" is insufficient to graduate a rigorous college program. You need to possess a concurrent set of aptitudes, those immutable characteristics that we are often tested for throughout our course in K-12 education. To assume that today's middle class of warehouse & factory workers, as well as tradesmen, could cut it in occupations requiring an advanced understanding of mathematics and algorithms is excessively optimistic. The jobs that automation is transforming are giving way to jobs that are largely dominated by people on the tail end of the IQ bellcurve, while most people fall in the middle. All the studying and education in the world could never enable them to transfer to these jobs. They simply lack the physical brainpower.

Everything that does not challenge your problem-solving aptitudes day-to-day is subject to elimination by machine. Menial data-entry jobs are fast being replaced by sophisticated OCR software. More and more factories are entirely autonomous, staffing only a small amount of workers to repair the machines when they malfunction. Foodservice and retail are prime targets for the next generation in automation technologies: a McDonald's or Wal-mart operating without staff is not far-fetched. In the far future, artificial intelligence (of the more realistic "weak AI" variety) will eliminate even more desk jobs that demand even an average aptitude for problem-solving. The only thing a machine cannot replace, at least in our current understanding of computability theory...are strong problem-solving aptitudes. Eventually, the only people who will even be capable of employment are geniuses in the top one percent of the IQ pool.

Where does this lead the real ninety-nine percent: those of us who labored over our math homework to score average grades, those of us who seldom understand articles on advanced physics, those people who can't even muster the brainpower to set the time on their VCR? Will we require this CWCville-like socialist dystopia of everyone requiring public assistance? Karl Marx wrote of how alienating repetitive factory jobs were; imagine how alienating it must be to know you lack any ability to make a real difference in the world, to know that you have little choice but to waste away, on public assistance, with no meaning in life.

We will one day come up against an economy where the most basic jobs demand high intelligence; what then becomes of the masses who lack the physical brainpower to concieve of their most elementary concepts?
 
KatsuKitty said:
This is something I've been thinking about a lot lately, given my background in information technology. Simply put, is there any room in the economy of tomorrow for people on the left side of the IQ bellcurve?

The common argument that parallels this question is that "technology destroys jobs"; however, if you examine closer, what is really happening is the shifting of jobs from those of lower skill to those of higher skill. This largely happens because anything that is repetitive and mindless (data entry, food service, warehouse work, factory work) is subject to automation. And who is responsible for building the infrastructure that eliminates these jobs? Those who work in fields requiring very strong brainpower. The people who work in these fields are the math whizzes you knew growing up: whenever something was taught in school, they just got it, while you and everyone else labored over problems endlessly to score a B+.

The counter-argument frequently given by champions of automation (not coincidentally, the same geniuses creating these highly-skilled jobs) is that this shift from low-skilled work to high-skilled work will be a largely painless transition, facilitated by an increase in highly rigorous STEM education and training. The troubling observation I've made, however, is that these same pundits assume that the transition from lower- to higher-intelligence work is attainable to anyone who is willing to just study hard enough. But the trouble is, "studying hard enough" is insufficient to graduate a rigorous college program. You need to possess a concurrent set of aptitudes, those immutable characteristics that we are often tested for throughout our course in K-12 education. To assume that today's middle class of warehouse & factory workers, as well as tradesmen, could cut it in occupations requiring an advanced understanding of mathematics and algorithms is excessively optimistic. The jobs that automation is transforming are giving way to jobs that are largely dominated by people on the tail end of the IQ bellcurve, while most people fall in the middle. All the studying and education in the world could never enable them to transfer to these jobs. They simply lack the physical brainpower.

Everything that does not challenge your problem-solving aptitudes day-to-day is subject to elimination by machine. Menial data-entry jobs are fast being replaced by sophisticated OCR software. More and more factories are entirely autonomous, staffing only a small amount of workers to repair the machines when they malfunction. Foodservice and retail are prime targets for the next generation in automation technologies: a McDonald's or Wal-mart operating without staff is not far-fetched. In the far future, artificial intelligence (of the more realistic "weak AI" variety) will eliminate even more desk jobs that demand even an average aptitude for problem-solving. The only thing a machine cannot replace, at least in our current understanding of computability theory...are strong problem-solving aptitudes. Eventually, the only people who will even be capable of employment are geniuses in the top one percent of the IQ pool.

Where does this lead the real ninety-nine percent: those of us who labored over our math homework to score average grades, those of us who seldom understand articles on advanced physics, those people who can't even muster the brainpower to set the time on their VCR? Will we require this CWCville-like socialist dystopia of everyone requiring public assistance? Karl Marx wrote of how alienating repetitive factory jobs were; imagine how alienating it must be to know you lack any ability to make a real difference in the world, to know that you have little choice but to waste away, on public assistance, with no meaning in life.

We will one day come up against an economy where the most basic jobs demand high intelligence; what then becomes of the masses who lack the physical brainpower to concieve of their most elementary concepts?

I hate to be the one with a lackluster reply, but frankly, I don't believe this kind of time will come in our generation. At the moment, I remember hearing A.I.'s are at the level of a cockroach's mind. I doubt they'll reach it to a comparable level that can be used in everyday life as you suggest by the end of the century.
 
This sort of thing touches upon Eugenics. Which is something that has been discussed over the last 200 or so years.

People have asked the same thing about whether people with disabilities should deserve a place in our society. It's a really complex subject and one I doubt anyone would come to a conclusion on for at least another century
 
Honestly, I don't think this will be an issue.
However, what will be an issue is what happens if we figure out how to live forever... Overpopulation would be inevitable. A Malthusian collapse might actually happen, because cities would have to expand onto usable farmland (IIRC it's already, but very slowly, happening in China), which eventually leads to a lack of food. (unless we start expanding cities vertically).

Now, we could begin an one-child policy like China's, but looking at their infanticide rate, it's probably not a good idea.

Unless colonizing other planets becomes possible before this happens, eugenics will be the only solution to buy scientists some time.
 
After the next H1N1 flu pandemic there'll be tons of jobs for everyone.

EDIT: Everyone who isn't dead obviously.
 
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Dr. Cuddlebug said:
People have asked the same thing about whether people with disabilities should deserve a place in our society. It's a really complex subject and one I doubt anyone would come to a conclusion on for at least another century

Hence the Derpy Hooves controversy.
 
don't worry, most stupid people today know more than an american colonist in the 1600's.
Stupid people in the future will be smarter than todays dumb people.
we can use them for mnual labor like fixing broken robots and shit.
 
Bgheff said:
There will always be some sort of use or work people can be put to. Having robots being able to do all service, factory and construction is still way way off, and might not even happen.

Factory is well on it's way. With the way construction and architecture are designed today it's impossible to automate it. Unless you specifically design buildings so that machines could create them
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I think if the elites did put the common people out of work, some kind of well deserved revolution would happen, hopefully. I'm not a "conspiracy theorist" but worries like this, the NSA and TSA, piss me off, I don't want to see the country I love turn into a complete police state. Shit like that is part of the reason I decided I will never have children.
 
Basic jobs that normally require high intelligence will be made easier with machines and tools. This is why you don't need to learn machine language to write a computer program.

I'd be more worried about the lack of jobs when robots take over. It's not impossible for robots to eventually gain human intelligence, and completely take over all jobs. And then we'd be living in some kind of robot dystopia.
 
Spend some time with people that work in the trades. It's not generally smart work, but it is mindful work, especially if you do it right. We are a LONG way off from machines that can do trades. There are too many things that require finesse and a sense for how things ought to be vs. rules and programming.
 
raymond said:
Basic jobs that normally require high intelligence will be made easier with machines and tools. This is why you don't need to learn machine language to write a computer program.
Depends on what kind of program you want to write -
 
Machines serve people. When we live in a utopia where we have robots to wipe our ass for us I don't think we'll be too concerned about jobs. It's hard to imagine future societies, I doubt people in the 1800s could imagine where we're at today, but in a situation where our every need is taken care for us and work becomes a luxury as opposed to a necessity, people will forfeit themselves to those willing and capable of taking up leadership positions. The "non-geniuses" will simply exist in the berth of luxury and those that care to will do what they want.

After writing this post I realized i had just described the premise of Idiocracy.
 
Null said:
Machines serve people. When we live in a utopia where we have robots to wipe our ass for us I don't think we'll be too concerned about jobs. It's hard to imagine future societies, I doubt people in the 1800s could imagine where we're at today, but in a situation where our every need is taken care for us and work becomes a luxury as opposed to a necessity, people will forfeit themselves to those willing and capable of taking up leadership positions. The "non-geniuses" will simply exist in the berth of luxury and those that care to will do what they want.

After writing this post I realized i had just described the premise of Idiocracy.

Well they survived just fine before Luke Wilson showed up
 
I don't believe AI is really that big an issue.

Salto said:
I hate to be the one with a lackluster reply, but frankly, I don't believe this kind of time will come in our generation. At the moment, I remember hearing A.I.'s are at the level of a cockroach's mind. I doubt they'll reach it to a comparable level that can be used in everyday life as you suggest by the end of the century.
This is right on the mark. Current AI is really weak and we're already starting to hit physical limits with computer hardware. Like, physical limits on how small transistors can get. We can barely beat chess champions with machines nowadays. And I think beating human Go players is pretty much infeasible when the board gets a certain size and you have a strong enough human player.

To maintain our current rate of advancement in computers, we'll either need to start adding more transistors or we'll need to switch to quantum computers. Adding more transistors does help, but the problem is that you need to rewrite your algorithms to work in parallel. Quantum computing is interesting, but I don't think we'll have practical quantum computers for a long time. And they too need specially written algorithms.
 
Ok so I shouldn't have the Alex Jones style, "OMG Robots are TAKING OVER!, THIS IS SKYNET IN REAL LIFE!!! We are FUCKED!" reaction then should I? lol
Cuz the opening post paints a picture of a fucked up future were everyone is out of work, unless they are fucking calculus experts, who know everything about computers. I dunno I'm one of those people who will only believe in stuff like the singularity (I know that's a completely different topic) if and when I see it happen. Same with the robot dystopia.
 
junglist said:
I think by the time.we have this tech we will also have tech too "make.people smarter" a bit like how neo learns kung fu in the first martix film,i wosh we hadknow, i have a high schoolB in chinese but im awful at spelling :(

Sadly that kind of technology will never be possible because our brains and computers don't go well together according to Michio Kaku.
 
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