"Live and let live"

[Internet Wizard]

I was thinking about this post earlier today and it really makes me wonder

Ignoring them and letting them be is the whole reason this whole ideology became as big as it is now.

"Not caring" is why so many kids have now thought about being transgender- why so many of them got easily manipulated through sources that tell them they're a true and honest genderspecial.

"Not caring" is one of the reasons behind the eventual explosion of transgender ideology during the pandemic years. "Not caring" is why this thread is still going on because we're seeing the effects of all of it.

That's what these crowds tell us. It's not affecting you, so shut up and let me emotionally manipulate the vulnerable child on VRChat into distancing themselves from their families to be with a crowd of mentally unstable adults, bigot. I can live my life not thinking about them and I have, but you can only hold onto that for so long when you're getting the occassional reminder on what they're doing and what they have successfully achieved during the pandemic and when the Biden presidency was endorsing it nonstop.

I really don't think there's any limits on "live and let live." They bring up good points about how being preventative could've prevented this crisis, but you can really say that about a lot of things. Maybe if people were more careful we could've dodged the Great Depression? If states just figured their shit out we could've prevented the Civil War. Things happen and you can disagree with them happening but that doesn't mean they aren't happening any less so
This forum is just one corner of the internet among several. This corner believes that what's happening is bad, but that doesn't mean others will naturally agree. It takes regret to make people regret things; they can't regret not doing what they've never done.
This could sound dangerous and disrespectful to the sanctity of human life but honestly, in a lot of ways life itself is disrespectful to itself. Why do people try drugs, is it just some curiousity that makes them do that? A fucked up thing they're running away from? Desperation to be or do something else?
This, too, will pass. Telling a trans person "You should stop this because you're destroying your future" won't really help when they just don't engage in that conversation, kind of like telling someone who self harms to stop for the same reason. They ultimately have to come to that conclusion on their own
Does that mean the narrative isn't extremely manipulative, often making things seem better than they are? No, and it's good to call things like that out. But the ultimate difference between those who've bought in and those who haven't is that both sides think what they're doing is for the greater good. There's no resolution to this that can't be criticized so why bother sticking your hand in the wood chipper? Shitposting on an internet forum isn't a noble pursuit towards liberating humanity anyways

TLDR I'm pro letting people enjoy things, AMA

 

[Idiotron]

I really don't think there's any limits on "live and let live."

There should be if you want to live in a functional, safe and prosperous society.
If you just turn a blind eye to everything because "it's not your business", very soon you'll be living among junkies, criminals and degenerates.
Maybe you like that prospect but that is not a society that will last.

There's no resolution to this that can't be criticized so why bother sticking your hand in the wood chipper?

Because some resolutions are much better than others.

 

[Internet Wizard]

If you just turn a blind eye to everything because "it's not your business", very soon you'll be living among junkies, criminals and degenerates.

Humanity won't collapse because people use pronouns I think

 

[Breadbassket]

There needs to be lines in the sand for certain behaviors. Consequences exist for the endless tolerance of something and if you let something grow undeterred and without opposition don't be surprised by what it becomes later.

 

[Pelican Bones]

Humanity won't collapse because people use pronouns I think

Good thing nobody ever said that, huh?

 

[Señora Airi]

Humanity won't collapse because people use pronouns I think

Considering pronouns are only used when the person being described is away from the describer, it's a form of controlling another's speech. So it isn't a case of "live and let live" it's "my views are correct and you shall address it as such".

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

I've read the thread, thought about it long and hard, and my conclusion is that there is a very big elephant in the room that must be addressed

Namely, "live and let live" only works in environments where people bear the full cost and consequences of their own choices
That has never been the case in the postmodern age

When someone mutilates their body, depends on endless validation, isolates kids from their families, or demands under threat of social and/or legal punishment that others participate in a fantasy, those are no longer private choices
These things are now public impositions
The moment someone else is forced to accommodate, fund, or lie for a tranny, the tranny is not "living their truth", xey/xem is conscripting others into it

And much of this spread was driven by institutional force, like schools, HR departments, therapists, and platforms applying pressure
And the people who tried to opt out (parents, workers, businesses) weren't allowed to. Instead, they were told neutrality is not an option

In such a system that punishes withdrawal and forbids disassociation, you can't have "live and let live"
What you get instead is ideological capture, enforced by these people having access to the property, time, and trust of others
That's why this shit spreads like it does, namely because people are not free

 

[Idiotron]

Humanity won't collapse because people use pronouns I think

First pronouns, then allowing dudes in dresses into women's spaces, then drag queens and other weird fetishists got access to children, the list goes on.
And it all started just a decade ago with "gays just want to get married and be left alone".

Right now, there is a massive pushback against this because the slippery slope is real.

 

[Harvey Danger]

Right now, there is a massive pushback against this because the slippery slope is real.

I'd say this is the fundamental divide: the people who think slippery slopes are real and inevitable, vs the people who think they aren't.

The experience of the last 20 years of culture has forced me into the first camp, kicking and screaming. Now I think anyone still in the latter camp can not be an honest thinker. They are emotionally or ideologically committed to denying "slipping" effects, to protect their own interests.

"Live and let live" is fine as long as we all see the bottom of the slope and agree it's an acceptable place to land. If not, then conflict is warranted, both by the people pushing downwards and the ones resisting upwards. Maybe politics can park us in a spot in the middle, in the truest sense of compromise. But if that position is unstable, then both sides will keep pushing.

In a broken political system like we currently have, I wouldn't trust any compromise, so I'm on that Sisyphean grind upwards. No deals, no letting live, I'm tired of getting kicked down the hill and I'm not giving the kickers another chance.

 

[Internet Wizard]

"Live and let live" is fine as long as we all see the bottom of the slope and agree it's an acceptable place to land

Sure

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

"Live and let live" is just forfeiting your culture to the dregs society.

 

[neu]

Shitposting on an internet forum isn't a noble pursuit towards liberating humanity anyways

So? Let people enjoy things.

 

[Incorrigible Bigotry]

Humanity won't collapse because people use pronouns I think

Pronouns are a symptom downstream of queer theory, which is practically just one big rationalisation for why it's proponents should be allowed to fuck kids. Seriously, all the biggest names in the field have some quote floating around out there about how the age of consent should be abolished, or that pedophilia is just another sexuality that shouldn't be persecuted, or that sexual contact actually isn't bad for children and that it's the societal reaction to it that is traumatising, or have written hardcore S&M lesbian pedo smut, etc.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

I'd say this is the fundamental divide: the people who think slippery slopes are real and inevitable, vs the people who think they aren't.

The experience of the last 20 years of culture has forced me into the first camp, kicking and screaming. Now I think anyone still in the latter camp can not be an honest thinker. They are emotionally or ideologically committed to denying "slipping" effects, to protect their own interests.

"Live and let live" is fine as long as we all see the bottom of the slope and agree it's an acceptable place to land. If not, then conflict is warranted, both by the people pushing downwards and the ones resisting upwards. Maybe politics can park us in a spot in the middle, in the truest sense of compromise. But if that position is unstable, then both sides will keep pushing.

In a broken political system like we currently have, I wouldn't trust any compromise, so I'm on that Sisyphean grind upwards. No deals, no letting live, I'm tired of getting kicked down the hill and I'm not giving the kickers another chance.

Read Private Truth and Public Lies by Timur Kuran.

Slippery slopes are only a “fallacy” when there’s no causal mechanism. They don’t just exist, they’re predictable. Kuran focused on one kind (under censorship/social pressure, slight changes in public opinion snowball into insane waves), but I think the idea can be adapted fairly well to describe degeneracy slippery slopes too.

 

[Harvey Danger]

Slippery slopes are only a “fallacy” when there’s no causal mechanism.

A lot of people don't realize the "fallacies" that get brought up in reddit-tier Internet arguments only apply to stricter, formal versions of logic. The number of policy and human decision-making that can be fit into proper syllogisms is tiny.

Slippery slopes exist, the only question is where. Even if you can't mathematically "prove" their existence, you can predict them with enough observation of human nature..

 

[Otterly]

TLDR I'm pro letting people enjoy things, AMA

Live and let live works for SOME things. Your neighbours have interior decoration you hate, or painted their house pink and it annoys you? It really doesn’t matter. Or they love music you think is crap, or they ramble on about line dancing? Again, it doesn’t matter.
Live and let live is for that kind of thing. The smaller stuff, or even the bigger stuff if it’s a matter of opinion.
There is a limit. If it damages others, or society, then society tends to have a taboo or social behaviour norm about it.
‘Let people enjoy things’ is a good example. Music that’s not my taste, clothes or fashion or a passion for caravanning. Or even what they do in the privacy of their bedroom. Whatever. But let’s say they insist on shoving that fetish in my face, in public or at work? Now it’s distressing me. I don’t consent to participating in it and I’m looking at it against my will. That used to be a sexual offence and nowadays I’m at fault for kink shaming.
Troonism is like that. It’s not a private act. It damages other people. As such it does not fall under live and let live.

 

[Internet Wizard]

Troonism is like that. It’s not a private act. It damages other people. As such it does not fall under live and let live.

When I say live and let live, I mean that you can not be supportive of troonism without harming the people involved with it
What do you do when you encounter a trans person IRL? The only real solution is to treat them as you would anyone else - live and let live basically acknowledges that you do this. If you don't like communism, will you go out of your way to harass any Chinese person you meet IRL? Same logic applies here; for all you know, the average troon you meet IRL could be a great person even if they're mutilating themselves. You can't just tell them it's bad every day and expect them to listen, it's really just a conclusion they have to make themselves. Just live and let live until that happens

In such a system that punishes withdrawal and forbids disassociation, you can't have "live and let live"

I don't really think the system does this, withdrawl is still possible and common outside of very very sensationalized events
You guys are making it seem like every IRL trans person will threaten you at knife point if you misgender them, I don't think it's conducive to stereotype like this

 

[powdered toast]

Live and let live" is fine as long as we all see the bottom of the slope

There is no bottom of the slope. Tell me, who was able to predict that there would end up being books in elementary schools showing cartoon pictures of kids getting blowjobs and talking about it? Who was able to predict that kids would be openly groomed and surgically mutilated? Who was able to predict that pedoohilia would go mainstream in a top-down fashion because the educational and medical establishments would embrace John Money and queer theory? There is no foreseeable bottom, we only have the myopic view of what can come next. "Hell is a BOTTOMLESS pit". No matter how far down you go there is a lower level. What we tolerate is what will rule us. This has become so far removed from "let us just get married!" that "live and let live" is not a remotely coherent argument anymore. We are so far past that point that not actively encouraging degeneracy and not participating in its new definitions of language and biology is cause for complete social ruin. We are already at the point that the sane people are considered the insane.

 

[Otterly]

What do you do when you encounter a trans person IRL?

I don’t interact. They are all perverts.

The only real solution is to treat them as you would anyone else - live and let live

No, I do the minimum interaction. No smile, nothing. If at work I am courteous because I know they will get me fired otherwise but there will be polite distance. No chit chat. Nothing. Minimal polite professionalism.

for all you know, the average troon you meet IRL could be a great person

I’m assuming you’ve read the stink ditch board? They are all, every single one, paraphiliacs.
Your examples of meeting people irl are erroneous. If I meet a murderer irl I’m not going to harangue him, he’s a known danger. I am polite amd I get the hell out of there. That’s not live and let live it’s self preservation. Ditto for any weird bloke who seems a danger. Women who encounter a massive hulking hon pervert in the ladies loos do similar. Smile to reduce the possibility of being battered or your photo taken and reported to your employer, then a quick exit.
Troons seem to interpret this as nice ladies loving them, when it’s a fawn response to reduce immediate threat.
Tolerance is not liking, and fawning is not even tolerance. Trannies are perhaps beginning to realise this, but self awareness ain’t a strong suit.

 

[Chunky Salsa]

You mongoloid, it's not a slippery slope fallacy, it's cause and fucking effect.