Mega Rad Gun Thread

[WelperHelper99]

Are you an elderly woman? I ask because that's my mom's preferred brand, regular CD being "too strong" for her.

It's about the gun itself. It's old, not in the best shape, and not rated for hotter +p loads. Last thing I want is the leaf springs giving out and fucking my timing.

Edit: also did get some Norma 7.62x39mm for range shooting and my stockpile. Brass cased, non corrosive, good stuff, shot plenty of it from my SKS.

 

[Troon_Patrol]

Speaking purely about US laws. Blackpowder guns are not considered firearms with the exception of one state IIRC? Considering the fact blackpowder can be loaded with more powder and more lead they can be just as lethal as the average cartridge gun and even use the same fancy JHP projectiles. So theoretically if someone were to make a blackpowder firearm that used electricity rather than primers or caps they could eliminate the cap problem of reliability and exposure to moisture and such black powder guns seem to suffer from. And there is no law for people rolling their own black powder paper cartridges as they have been doing it for years. You obviously could never get a an auto-loading firearm without a solid metal cartridge to function but a black revolver with a paper cartridge and a heavy wax coat? Not ignited by a primer but battery powered electricity running across the paper igniting it and the powder?

I could only see this working on revolvers or break action shotguns but wouldn't that "loophole" the whole blackpowder firearm laws into something just as lethal as a .44 Mag or a 12 Gauge? It would be blackpowder so not legally a firearm but you'd still have 6 shots of .44 Mag/.357Mag or 2 rounds 12 Guage loads with all the power and reliability of a modern cartridge.

Has anyone defined what a black powder gun is legally? I'd imagine the ATF would say anything in a metallic or plastic cartridge capable of holding a self contained primer is a firearm but, what if there is no self contained primer? No brass or plastic cartridge? doesn't that make it a "black powder" gun? No 4473? No paperwork?

thoughts?

 

[WelperHelper99]

I’m new to guns but I want to buy a sub compact pistol I can take hiking in druggie infested woods. What is the best caliber and model? I don’t know why but instinctively I lean towards .32 even though I’ve never used it. I’ve shot rifles and shotguns but never pistols.

32 is beyond expensive and the amount of new production guns you can buy off the shelf are small. If you want low recoil, 38 special and 380 auto exist. Both work and have proven loads. They're also cheap. A used J frame won't be  more than 400 WITH tax included. A nice one mind you.

I also agree with the advice you've already been given. Go rent some guns, get a feel for the different rounds and different guns. You may like glocks or you may like revolvers. Everyone is different. What's important is that you are a good fit with your Conceal carry gun. Not liking it then getting into a fire fight is a bad combo.

 

[MerelyAPlateOfSpaghetti]

I’m new to guns but I want to buy a sub compact pistol I can take hiking in druggie infested woods. What is the best caliber and model? I don’t know why but instinctively I lean towards .32 even though I’ve never used it. I’ve shot rifles and shotguns but never pistols.

The issue you run into with smaller pistols is that they don't have the weight to comfortably eat recoil. I can shoot 16 rounds through my 9mm with no problems, but I shot a compact M1911A .380 this weekend and it hurt after 7 rounds.

So .380 is a weaker cartridge than 9mm AND you feel the recoil more on smaller guns. Another thing to consider - my 8 year old son can shoot a full magazine through my aluminum frame C-100 9mm, but on his uncle's polymer SAR 9mm he can only shoot one or two rounds before failure to eject or load due to limp wristing. So a heavier pistol might be easier to shoot and carry even if it's a bigger round.

 

[Romulus augustulus]

What was the strongest rifle action circa 1910 and what pressures could it handle?

Mauser 98 or a falling block. the mauser can handle the really high pressure big bore african rounds like .416 rigby. it could handle .500 nitro express or .577 nitro but they are just too large to fit in the action.

The falling block is even stronger. the action operates just like some artillery pieces. a thick piece of steel blocking the pressure. The barrel will fail before the action.

 

[Romulus augustulus]

I’m new to guns but I want to buy a sub compact pistol I can take hiking in druggie infested woods. What is the best caliber and model? I don’t know why but instinctively I lean towards .32 even though I’ve never used it. I’ve shot rifles and shotguns but never pistols.

if its for woods carry why not go full size? I carry a .45

View attachment 6102965
Got some Hornady Criticial Defense Lite for my Model 36 last week. 90 grain bullet, 1200 fps ( lower out of a two inch obviously). Reason being that it's a older gun and not technically rated for +p, could throw off timing with too much shooting. Pen seems sufficient from everything I've seen, albeit on the low end. Pretty happy with my purchase tbh, been wanting to get some for years.

Before S&W came out with the endurance package for their revolvers it was recommended that you send in J-frames for a factory overhaul every 3,000 rounds of +P. new smiths are rated for constant +P use now.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Before S&W came out with the endurance package for their revolvers it was recommended that you send in J-frames for a factory overhaul every 3,000 rounds of +P. new smiths are rated for constant +P use now.

And that's my issue. I've shot p+ through it, it works, at the same time I don't trust it because I don't know how much wear the internals have been through and I ain't touching that shit because I really like the trigger pull. Better to play it safe.

 

[BikeLock]

The issue you run into with smaller pistols is that they don't have the weight to comfortably eat recoil. I can shoot 16 rounds through my 9mm with no problems, but I shot a compact M1911A .380 this weekend and it hurt after 7 rounds.

So .380 is a weaker cartridge than 9mm AND you feel the recoil more on smaller guns. Another thing to consider - my 8 year old son can shoot a full magazine through my aluminum frame C-100 9mm, but on his uncle's polymer SAR 9mm he can only shoot one or two rounds before failure to eject or load due to limp wristing. So a heavier pistol might be easier to shoot and carry even if it's a bigger round.

Look, I'm not about to call you a pussy for saying that a .380 1911 brings the pain, but in comparison I have shot a Ruger LCP, which weighs nothing, and did not find the recoil pleasant at all, surprisingly sharp, actually. Now, it wasn't the House of Pain like shooting .357 Mag through a Smith 340PD which came in at a slim 12 oz... that was like I put my hand face up on the range table and smashed my hand with a ball-peen, I haven't shot anything that has come close to that since.

Compared to that a .50AE Desert Eagle was downright pleasant to shoot.

 

[MerelyAPlateOfSpaghetti]

Look, I'm not about to call you a pussy for saying that a .380 1911 brings the pain, but in comparison I have shot a Ruger LCP, which weighs nothing, and did not find the recoil pleasant at all, surprisingly sharp, actually. Now, it wasn't the House of Pain like shooting .357 Mag through a Smith 340PD which came in at a slim 12 oz... It was like I put my hand face up on the range table and smashed my hand with a ball-peen, I haven't shot anything that has come close to that since.

Compared to that a .50AE Desert Eagle was downright pleasant to shoot.

The .380 in question, it was just a mean lil guy lol. Loudest gun we shot that day, most recoil. It's a pretty gun and decent to shoot, I just wanted to add some data because "just get a .380" doesn't negate recoil as much as good gun design does. My son asked if he could shoot the .380 and that was the only one I didn't let him shoot.

 

[Romulus augustulus]

And that's my issue. I've shot p+ through it, it works, at the same time I don't trust it because I don't know how much wear the internals have been through and I ain't touching that shit because I really like the trigger pull. Better to play it safe.

I say stick with regular .38 special. with the right loading and projectile it is more than adequate. the whole +p game started because police departments would not sanction the use of .357 mag on duty and for the most part mandated 158gr round nose .38 special loadings which is a known under performer (158gr LRN was called the widow maker because of its lack of stopping power). there is a reason that load is now relegated for target use.

in 1986 S&W put out this statement on +P use in their older revolvers:

The +P and +P+ loads should not be used in J or K-frame revolvers with aluminum frames, under any circumstances; Use of +P+ ammunition should be restricted to law enforcement agencies, only; The +P or +P+ ammunition could be used in J and K-frame revolvers with steel frames, and; Any use of +P or +P+ ammo should be minimized, since even minimal use would reduce the service life of the gun and possibly damage it. Smith & Wesson advised that revolvers fired with +P or +P+ ammunition “should be inspected for wear such as barrel erosion and cylinder endshake at intervals consistent with use of the weapon,

it won't blow it up but will give excessive wear. many officers only carried +p on duty and practiced with wad-cutters or the 158gr LRN.

 

[WelperHelper99]

I say stick with regular .38 special. with the right loading and projectile it is more than adequate. the whole +p game started because police departments would not sanction the use of .357 mag on duty and for the most part mandated 158gr round nose .38 special loadings which is a known under performer (158gr LRN was called the widow maker because of its lack of stopping power). there is a reason that load is now relegated for target use.

in 1986 S&W put out this statement on +P use in their older revolvers:

it won't blow it up but will give excessive wear. many officers only carried +p on duty and practiced with wad-cutters or the 158gr LRN.

That's basically how I've treated it since I've had it. It's borderline a relic. +p if I carry it is basically my duty load only. Regular load for plinking.

 

[Romulus augustulus]

That's basically how I've treated it since I've had it. It's borderline a relic. +p if I carry it is basically my duty load only. Regular load for plinking.

sounds good. honestly, if projectile tech and department policy had allowed it i kinda doubt +P would have even existed.

 

[MrB]

So theoretically if someone were to make a blackpowder firearm that used electricity rather than primers or caps they could eliminate the cap problem of reliability and exposure to moisture and such black powder guns seem to suffer from. And there is no law for people rolling their own black powder paper cartridges as they have been doing it for years. You obviously could never get a an auto-loading firearm without a solid metal cartridge to function but a black revolver with a paper cartridge and a heavy wax coat? Not ignited by a primer but battery powered electricity running across the paper igniting it and the powder?

There was one gun that already did this, an inline rifle called the CVA Electra.

Couldn't find any higher-quality photos.
Here's the (Google link warning) patent for it.

The Shinzo Abe gun was also electronically fired.


There's more really good info and tutorials on electric muzzleloaders here and here.

 

[Romulus augustulus]

There was one gun that already did this, an inline rifle called the CVA Electra.

View attachment 6103390
View attachment 6103384
View attachment 6103385
Couldn't find any higher-quality photos.
Here's the (Google link warning) patent for it.

The Shinzo Abe gun was also electronically fired.
View attachment 6103370

There's more really good info and tutorials on electric muzzleloaders here and here.

View attachment 6103381
View attachment 6103380

jesus christ that trigger pack. and in a rifle that has to be cleaned with WATER after every outing.

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

There was one gun that already did this, an inline rifle called the CVA Electra.

View attachment 6103390
View attachment 6103384
View attachment 6103385
Couldn't find any higher-quality photos.
Here's the (Google link warning) patent for it.

The Shinzo Abe gun was also electronically fired.
View attachment 6103370

There's more really good info and tutorials on electric muzzleloaders here and here.

View attachment 6103381
View attachment 6103380

Pro-Gamer Hint: Can use 0000 steel wool, a simple switch, and a 9v battery as a basic ignition method.

 

[BikeLock]

The .380 in question, it was just a mean lil guy lol. Loudest gun we shot that day, most recoil. It's a pretty gun and decent to shoot, I just wanted to add some data because "just get a .380" doesn't negate recoil as much as good gun design does. My son asked if he could shoot the .380 and that was the only one I didn't let him shoot.
View attachment 6103317

That little guy an actual .380 1911 with a proper locked breech, or is it a blowback .380 just shaped like a 1911? It looks like somebody sent a 5" standard 1911 through the wash and it shrank a bit.

I'm about 90% sure that little LCP was blowback, which would contribute to its sharp felt recoil. I bet the 9mm versions of that pistol are proper spicy little buggers indeed.

 

[MerelyAPlateOfSpaghetti]

That little guy an actual .380 1911 with a proper locked breech, or is it a blowback .380 just shaped like a 1911? It looks like somebody sent a 5" standard 1911 through the wash and it shrank a bit.

I'm about 90% sure that little LCP was blowback, which would contribute to its sharp felt recoil. I bet the 9mm versions of that pistol are proper spicy little buggers indeed.

I'm not sure, but it is one of these. 1.47 pounds unloaded.

 

[Geoff Capes Vapes Apes]

I could only see this working on revolvers or break action shotguns but wouldn't that "loophole" the whole blackpowder firearm laws into something just as lethal as a .44 Mag or a 12 Gauge? It would be blackpowder so not legally a firearm but you'd still have 6 shots of .44 Mag/.357Mag or 2 rounds 12 Guage loads with all the power and reliability of a modern cartridge.

thoughts?

As ever with utilising retarded gun law loopholes, we Brits have made a calling of it. WRT power, the Colt Walker was pushing .357mag energy levels back in the 1840s, and with modern metallurgy you could no doubt push it hotter. Of course, it is a big fuck off lump of a pistol and while I appreciate mine it's not the most practical of things.

People who shoot comps in this country tend to have several loaded cylinders on them, which if done correctly *significantly* reduces reload times, if we're theory-crafting a modern design with the intent of utilising loopholes, paper cartridges and a moon clip of percussion caps (or even something reminiscent of the rings of caps we used to get for cap-guns) would be somewhat practical and a big improvement on a flask of powder.

You may want to have a look at the work of Alan Westlake, he makes muzzle loading conversions of proper revolvers for the UK market in .38 calibre that run standard nitro powder, bullets and shotgun primers on the back of the cylinder, however I think your law specifies designed for BP or BP substitutes.

12 bores were percussion guns long before self-contained cartridges came along, and for shotgun purposes you have to question how much energy you *need* where you're throwing 9 pieces of buck, the lads doing business in the trenches of WW1 weren't running around with Winchester pissin' hot 3" magnum shells.

 

[BikeLock]

I'm not sure, but it is one of these. 1.47 pounds unloaded.

Disassembly vid. (sootch00 is one of the better guntubers, imho)

No barrel locking lugs, no swinging link, external extractor. (an external extractor isn't a bad thing imho, the extractor is one of the weak points of the 1911, purest don't like them because they're retarded, of course). So its straight blowback and not locked breech.

Disappointing, but not unexpected. Not a huge deal so long as it runs, and Rock Islands are usually pretty good at that for an inexpensive 1911.

 

[quaawaa]

Speaking purely about US laws. Blackpowder guns are not considered firearms with the exception of one state IIRC? Considering the fact blackpowder can be loaded with more powder and more lead they can be just as lethal as the average cartridge gun and even use the same fancy JHP projectiles. So theoretically if someone were to make a blackpowder firearm that used electricity rather than primers or caps they could eliminate the cap problem of reliability and exposure to moisture and such black powder guns seem to suffer from. And there is no law for people rolling their own black powder paper cartridges as they have been doing it for years. You obviously could never get a an auto-loading firearm without a solid metal cartridge to function but a black revolver with a paper cartridge and a heavy wax coat? Not ignited by a primer but battery powered electricity running across the paper igniting it and the powder?

I could only see this working on revolvers or break action shotguns but wouldn't that "loophole" the whole blackpowder firearm laws into something just as lethal as a .44 Mag or a 12 Gauge? It would be blackpowder so not legally a firearm but you'd still have 6 shots of .44 Mag/.357Mag or 2 rounds 12 Guage loads with all the power and reliability of a modern cartridge.

Has anyone defined what a black powder gun is legally? I'd imagine the ATF would say anything in a metallic or plastic cartridge capable of holding a self contained primer is a firearm but, what if there is no self contained primer? No brass or plastic cartridge? doesn't that make it a "black powder" gun? No 4473? No paperwork?

thoughts?

No need for all that, just buy a conversion cylinder and make sure you have a steel (not brass) framed gun.