Disaster Milwaukee Police Afraid of Handguns Randomly Firing: Report - Remember: the first rule of firearms safety is to have fun

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Milwaukee police said they were so afraid of their department-issued handguns randomly firing, they wouldn't bring them home near their family​

Natalie Musumeci
Apr 11, 2023, 3:03 PM





A Sig Sauer P320 handgun. Joe Raedle/Getty Images

• Milwaukee police were worried about their SIG Sauer P320 handguns randomly firing.
• "They don't want it around their family," a police union head told The Washington Post.
• A Washington Post/The Trace investigation found dozens of reports of the handguns firing without a trigger pull.

Officers with Wisconsin's Milwaukee Police Department were reportedly so worried about their SIG Sauer P320 handguns randomly firing that they wouldn't bring the weapon home.

"Our officers are fearful of the gun," Milwaukee Police Association officers union head Andrew Wagner told The Washington Post as part of an investigation published on Tuesday.

"They're not taking it home. They don't want it around their family," Wagner said of the department-issued semi-automatic pistol.

An eight-month investigation by The Washington Post and The Trace found that more than 100 people claim that their P320 pistols fired when they did not pull the trigger in incidents dating back to 2016, according to the report.

The investigation also found that at least 80 people were wounded in those shootings.

A representative for New Hampshire-based gun manufacturer SIG Sauer did not immediately respond to requests for comment by Insider on Tuesday.

In a statement to The Washington Post, the gunmaker denied that the P320 was able to fire without someone pulling the trigger.

In December, Milwaukee police began replacing the SIG Sauer pistols with Glock firearms, local outlet Fox6 reported.

"They're really happy that they are not going to have to worry about endangering the community or themselves when they are carrying these firearms they currently have," Wagner said at the time.

 

[Bogliacci]

Just get a glock

 

[George Lucas]

I’ve always wondered why they can’t just use revolvers (with a shotgun in the backseat). Do beat cops really need semiautomatics? Seems too complicated for something hardly used.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

Seems like if this was real it would be a really big deal around the USA

 

[mlanguishi]

There were a few early reports about it. But the army use it now and the P320 is one of the best selling pistols for years. No way it's actually a problem

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

Seems like if this was real it would be a really big deal around the USA

Early versions of the Sig 320 did have a flaw that let it go off... Not randomly, but errantly. Specifically, there was a defect that would, sometimes, cause it to go off if it was dropped or suffered a hard, sharp impact.

It was a legit problem, and Sig rectified the issue as I understand it (not a Sig guy, personally). But there was never an "epidemic" of guns "going off accidentally". They didn't just, like... go off when you were carrying them, or when they were sitting on a table, or something.

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

Do they absolutely need to have a round in the chamber when at home? Takes next to no time to rack the slide.

Also yes, get a Glock. Or a Beretta. Or a CZ. Or a Walther. Or even a S&W M&P. Fucking hell, so many options better than Sig.

 

[LargeChoonger]

I’ve always wondered why they can’t just use revolvers (with a shotgun in the backseat). Do beat cops really need semiautomatics? Seems too complicated for something hardly used.

Because a revolver in a manageable cartridge (think 38 Special, 44 Special, the ones that use moon clips and rimless rounds) are just pointless now, and issuing violent kicking magnums would only make them train even less than they already do. Autos just do self defense and anti-personnel better now. Plus the many cases of criminals just refusing to to down after 6, 7, 8 rounds

 

[Slappy McGherkin]

I’ve always wondered why they can’t just use revolvers (with a shotgun in the backseat). Do beat cops really need semiautomatics? Seems too complicated for something hardly used.

Given what the police encounter on the streets these days, I'd certainly want more than a six-shooter. I mean in Barney Fife Mayberry days, they weren't really outgunned with a revolver. But these days, 17 round semi-autos are the norm for the bad guys and the good guys.

 

[indomitable snowman]

I’ve always wondered why they can’t just use revolvers (with a shotgun in the backseat). Do beat cops really need semiautomatics? Seems too complicated for something hardly used.

I believe ever since the north Hollywood shootout in the 90s police have quickly moved away from revolvers. They were not able to penetrate the armor of the bank robbers. That moved police to carry more firepower.

 

[TerminalTryHard]

It's hard to tell here cause the 320 did have known problems tha Sig has claimed to have fixed but Sig's QC has become questionable over the last few years as they stretch themselves thin on all these gov contracts.

On the other hand panics like this has led to 320s already showing up on surplus sites as LEO trade ins.

 

[Meat Target]

I believe ever since the north Hollywood shootout in the 90s police have quickly moved away from revolvers. They were not able to penetrate the armor of the bank robbers. That moved police to carry more firepower.

It was either that or the Miami-Dade shootout. I don't remember if they had armor, but one robber was shot in the upper arm and it didn't go far enough into his chest. That may have prompted them to move up to autoloaders and develop the .40 S&W cartridge.

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

I believe ever since the north Hollywood shootout in the 90s police have quickly moved away from revolvers. They were not able to penetrate the armor of the bank robbers. That moved police to carry more firepower.

Most cops carry a 9mm. You can get 9mm revolvers. Some of them carry .40 s/w.... You can get revolvers that load that, too, and there are other very good revolver rounds. It's a capacity and ease of reloading issue, not firepower.

The standard cop firearm shooting these days is basically "magdump a glock, reload, keep firing if the guy is still moving". Need automatics to be that fucking pathetic.

 

[LaxerBRO]

Info on the P320 issues:

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As to their duty weapons:

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Finally, I am skeptical about all those self discharges. I am going to suggest the vast majority are incompetent hires having a negligent discharge only then to invent the story to avoid punishment and get benefits.

The same shit happened with Glocks:

The F.B.I., police departments in Los Angeles and Chicago, the California Highway Patrol and the Metro-Dade Police Department in Florida have banned Glocks for routine use by their officers, citing a range of safety and training problems. All these departments have selected other brands of semiautomatics instead. The Philadelphia Police Department has been testing Glocks for several years and has not reached a conclusion about their safety.

New York's own pilot program has produced the types of accidental shootings that have prompted other departments to ban Glocks.

In an incident in May 1991, an officer from the Firearms and Tactics Section was playing a shuffleboard game in a bar when he bent down to pick up the puck and his Glock fell out of its holster, according to a Police Department report. The gun glanced against the side of the game and discharged as the officer tried to grab it. The bullet struck another officer in the thigh. Accidental Firing

In October 1990, in an incident unrelated to the pilot program, an officer pulled the trigger on his Glock while cleaning it in his bedroom and accidentally fired a bullet. He was not authorized to carry a Glock and had not been trained in its use.

 

[LargeChoonger]

It was either that or the Miami-Dade shootout. I don't remember if they had armor, but one robber was shot in the upper arm and it didn't go far enough into his chest. That may have prompted them to move up to autoloaders and develop the .40 S&W cartridge.

10mm. .40 came after

 

[TheDarknessGrows]

These pussies should at least be carrying 10mm.

 

[White Devil]

Glad I carry a M&P 2.0. Sig really has gone downhill since turning into the second iteration of Colt.

 

[Ancient Pioneer]

I believe ever since the north Hollywood shootout in the 90s police have quickly moved away from revolvers. They were not able to penetrate the armor of the bank robbers. That moved police to carry more firepower.

It was the North Hollywood shootout that prompted the fast switch to semi-automatic pistols. New cops had been issued semi-autos but the old guard that came up in the 1970s and 1980s still used their old revolvers they were issued, these guys were told to switch or hit the bricks. The North Hollywood shoot out prompted cops to have a rifle stowed in the trunk because zero pistol rounds penetrated, fired from semi or revolver. The cops used your classic pastoral wood stock rifles through the 90s and in the early 2000s three things merged together, AR-15s came back on the market because the ban ended, the US military realized the M-16 was shit for mounted troops in Iraq since the barrel was too long and shifted to the M4, and picatinny rails started becoming standard feature for most rifles leading to the ACOG or Eotechs being preferred over iron sights and eventually issued by default. By the mid-late 2000s early 2010s most departments realized the AR-15 is an extremely good all-around rifle because it is so modular and the departments had a huge amount of people trained with M-16 and M4s from so it was a natural fit.

 

[Johnny Salami]

Someone should gift Fat Rick that gun. As a sign of friendship

 

[Kosher Dill]

It was the North Hollywood shootout that prompted the fast switch to semi-automatic pistols. New cops had been issued semi-autos but the old guard that came up in the 1970s and 1980s still used their old revolvers they were issued, these guys were told to switch or hit the bricks.

Over on the East Coast, the NYPD actually still let officers keep their revolvers until 2018 if they had been issued one:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/31/nyregion/new-york-police-revolver.html