Open Source Software Community - it's about ethics in Code of Conducts

Mikoyan said:
He doesn't articulate a proper 'why'. Specifically 'why your own boutique handcoded Z80 asm forth engine OS' rather than a cut down entry-level system done in LFS or something. He expects total supply chain collapse, sure, but why are Z80s going to be more abundant than small cheap ARM (or RISC-V in the 'start from scratch' case) SBCs? If you're struggling with a 'bring computing back from a cold shutdown' situation you're going to concentrate on the most dense node you can cobble together making small processors to maximize your production capacity. Doesn't bode well for RETURVN TO ZILOG. And if you can't make any semiconductors, you're stuck with what you can hoard, which is the hundred or so RPis you can keep stashed in a metal ammo can with a ground lug welded on for maximum EMP sinking. (or just bury the thing, w/e)
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Yeah, I mean, if I'm going to larp as a fucking doomprepper then I'm going to build something around a 6502 since there's scans of that available, netlists, very in-depth documentation, and the design itself has relatively few gates such that someone with enough dedication can definitely produce that in their garage. In fact, pushing the state of the art in garage manufacturing is honestly way more interesting than some doomfag's larp.

Also: ARM is fucking gay.
 
Mikoyan said:
Specifically it's trans considering who invented it.

And I agree but it's hard to argue with the hydrogen-like abundance of cheap 'everything you actually need' ARM SBCs, so far as basic scrounging goes. I like the 6502 idea, too.
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Even if you restrict away SBCs and all the Pi boards, STM and ESP chips would still be a more preferable target than a Z80 with how much IoT shit is out there already, including at landfills.
 
Mikoyan said:
Specifically it's trans considering who invented it.

And I agree but it's hard to argue with the hydrogen-like abundance of cheap 'everything you actually need' ARM SBCs, so far as basic scrounging goes. I like the 6502 idea, too.
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Well, to be clear, the context of his site is a shit-hits-the-fan situation, right? In a situation like that I'm not going to depend on a supply of chips - or anything, really - that I can't manufacture myself locally.
 
Cherenkovblue said:
Well, to be clear, the context of his site is a shit-hits-the-fan situation, right? In a situation like that I'm not going to depend on a supply of chips - or anything, really - that I can't manufacture myself locally.
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Well that's why I say it's about what you can hoard ahead of time in that case. Nobody's DIYing microchips.

Yes I know there's that one guy. But you're not even doing that in the middle of the big kaboom.
 
Mikoyan said:
Well that's why I say it's about what you can hoard ahead of time in that case. Nobody's DIYing microchips.

Yes I know there's that one guy. But you're not even doing that in the middle of the big kaboom.
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It depends on what exactly you want to accomplish. I mean, really, what DO you need post-catastrophe? How much processing power is enough? If you're willing to tolerate chips the size of dinner plates and limit yourself to Large Scale Integration then realistically you COULD be DIYing microchips without a lot of sophistication.
 
Cherenkovblue said:
It depends on what exactly you want to accomplish. I mean, really, what DO you need post-catastrophe? How much processing power is enough? If you're willing to tolerate chips the size of dinner plates and limit yourself to Large Scale Integration then realistically you COULD be DIYing microchips without a lot of sophistication.
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It depends. Realistically, people aren't going to need more than that TI-84. Doing math and some construction-like formulae, that's fine for most people.

My spec is more around what might be handy for trying to set up a local communications network. I think that too is maybe a little unrealistic to get running really well, but it's better than thinking that late 70s-early-80s style hobbyist computing is going to help you with anything at all.
 
Mikoyan said:
It depends. Realistically, people aren't going to need more than that TI-84. Doing math and some construction-like formulae, that's fine for most people.
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you could technically turn the ti84 into an actual communicator with the right assembly program and plugging your "radio" into the "headphone" jack but doing so is very diy.
 
Rust Troony said:
"Oh great monkeys paw, how I wish I could keep out trannies from my project"

"🚀 HELLO MY GOOD SAARS I HAVE THE MOST BEAUTIFULLEST MERGE REQUEST FROM THE CLAUDE SAAR. FIXING MANY THINGS SAAR. SQUASHES THOSE BLOODY BENCHODE BASTARD BUG LIKE PAKI SAAR."
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I read this in PPP's voice, despite only listening to him on the collab mati, how fucked am I?

Steel Billet said:
New 'toss
View attachment 8763748
You can find more GEMS like this on this channel.
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Sir I kneel. This channel is peak art.
 
Cherenkovblue said:
I mean, really, what DO you need post-catastrophe?
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I think this is the question CollapseOS is missing. In a grid-down disaster, your first priority would be securing food and water. Electronic tech would be limited to discreet commodity parts that can be soldered by hand: purpose-built devices that accomplish a single task, like analog shortwave radio. I just don't see how general purpose computing offers value in a situation where the supply chain hasn't been rebuilt first, at which point it would no longer be a collapse.
 
I dislike ARM architecture mostly because of the TrustZone and its consequences on modern computing. Who thought it was a good idea to not give the user an option to use custom keys so that the phone is still protected with an alternative OS which is safer than most stock OSes.
 
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unaboomer said:
I think this is the question CollapseOS is missing. In a grid-down disaster, your first priority would be securing food and water. Electronic tech would be limited to discreet commodity parts that can be soldered by hand: purpose-built devices that accomplish a single task, like analog shortwave radio. I just don't see how general purpose computing offers value in a situation where the supply chain hasn't been rebuilt first, at which point it would no longer be a collapse.
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It depends on what point of the collapse. There would likely be a point where the internet and long distance trade is down but existing hardware still functions. Eventually the hardware would break down and new hardware would be cobbled together that wouldn't use the same OS, but if you can keep an archive of bootstrap information like how to build a house or a basic computer out of some wire and a potato then you're better off then if you didn't have the archives.
 
The philosophy behind CollapseOS is a LARP fantasy put together to justify the autistic obsession with retro/minimalist hardware. Nothing wrong with being passionate about such hardware, but it's obviously not ever going to be of serious use in a civilizational collapse. As some have already said in this thread, in a true collapse there will either still be a shitload of (old) x86 and ARM chips, or nothing at all.
 
Mikoyan said:
He doesn't articulate a proper 'why'.
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I've got one...
Next time you need to hire a programmer, invite all the candidates to re-create Towers of Hanoi, in Forth, on a PC built from a Zanussi washing machine. Here's your Forth manual, here's some tide pods, you have 3 hours, no phones, go.
It won't matter how much they've lied on their CV, that will sort the wheat from the chaff.
 
Mikoyan said:
It depends. Realistically, people aren't going to need more than that TI-84. Doing math and some construction-like formulae, that's fine for most people.

My spec is more around what might be handy for trying to set up a local communications network. I think that too is maybe a little unrealistic to get running really well, but it's better than thinking that late 70s-early-80s style hobbyist computing is going to help you with anything at all.
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Pretty sure a TI-84 isn't going to help you set up a local communications network any more than some whizbang ARM multicore monstrosity is. OTOH, a 6502 easily has more processing power than the Apollo Guidance Computer that put men on the moon. So unless you're really hellbent on playing Quake or some shit after the shit hits the fan... maybe a 6502 is more than enough for your everyday computing needs. As far as setting up a local communications network -- define local. I mean, really, how far are you trying to reach? Because if the shit hits the fan you don't have pesky things like the FCC telling you what's what, so you can move down the spectrum into bands that are more conducive to long-range transmission (as long as you're willing to trade off bandwidth, anyway). Presumably you'd be more concerned with circulating valuable information than lolcats so the drop in bandwidth is acceptable and, moreover, makes communications easier in that you don't need high-speed monstrosities to talk to anybody.

Seriously, this is why these arguments never really go anywhere. Without a definite set of constraints on what shit hitting the fan consists of (i.e. did the nukes fly but there's someone hiding out who's got the capital to rebuild civilization, or are you completely on your own and civilizatoin has been levelled, or is this some kind of apocalyptic plague that took out humanity but left everything useful behind -- or what?) you just wind up mentally masturbating.
 
Cherenkovblue said:
Pretty sure a TI-84 isn't going to help you set up a local communications network any more than some whizbang ARM multicore monstrosity is. OTOH, a 6502 easily has more processing power than the Apollo Guidance Computer that put men on the moon. So unless you're really hellbent on playing Quake or some shit after the shit hits the fan... maybe a 6502 is more than enough for your everyday computing needs. As far as setting up a local communications network -- define local. I mean, really, how far are you trying to reach? Because if the shit hits the fan you don't have pesky things like the FCC telling you what's what, so you can move down the spectrum into bands that are more conducive to long-range transmission (as long as you're willing to trade off bandwidth, anyway). Presumably you'd be more concerned with circulating valuable information than lolcats so the drop in bandwidth is acceptable and, moreover, makes communications easier in that you don't need high-speed monstrosities to talk to anybody.

Seriously, this is why these arguments never really go anywhere. Without a definite set of constraints on what shit hitting the fan consists of (i.e. did the nukes fly but there's someone hiding out who's got the capital to rebuild civilization, or are you completely on your own and civilizatoin has been levelled, or is this some kind of apocalyptic plague that took out humanity but left everything useful behind -- or what?) you just wind up mentally masturbating.
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I think it is much more productive to build software for x86 if you plan to doom-prep.
Ideally you should reduce the amount of hard cpu instruction requirements, by implementing fallbacks.
Like a lot of software should still run well on a SSE1 only CPU like Athlon XP/Pentium 3.

An extreme example is how you can run Quake 3 on a 386DX, albeit extremely slow.

Back to the core subject, I am less critical of concepts like Collapse OS because I like minimalism (not the faggy hippie minimalism, but the fact you can use old hardware and tools), and that it could become a way to avoid pozzed future hardware.
But even during a nuclear fallout, you will still be able to find a lot of x86-64 ewaste to run your computing needs.
 
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Cherenkovblue said:
Pretty sure a TI-84 isn't going to help you set up a local communications network any more than some whizbang ARM multicore monstrosity is.
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No, this is precisely what I'm saying. In this situation it's likely that the most useful thing is something that lets you do a bit of math without error and figure out exactly how much wood you need to put up your hut. Anything more complicated than that is really just pretending.
 
Youngun's should bow before their elder's...
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Mikoyan said:
In this situation it's likely that the most useful thing is something that lets you do a bit of math without error and figure out exactly how much wood you need to put up your hut.
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Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but if you need a programmable calculator for that then you're not going to make it through the first winter.
We'll miss you.
 
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