Optimism/Pessemism

[Konstantinos]

Alright intrepid forum-goer, would you consider yourself more of a pessimist or an optimist? Generally, do you find yourself taking a cynical view of everything or do you remain hopeful?

I've slowly become somewhat bitter and cynical over the course of the last year or so but I hope that trend will be reversed in 2015.

 

[SpessCaptain]

I'm an Optimist, I believe that all people want to have the incentive to leave the world a better place.

 

[cypocryphy]

I'm pretty optimistic

 

[Fashhole]

I learned a long time ago optimism leads to nothing but disappointment haha.

Although when people say I'm pessimistic, I usually say, "No, I'm realistic." I suppose I identify more as a "realist" if that's a thing, but oh well. I'd identify as a pessimist over an optimist any day.

 

[Datiko]

Although when people say I'm pessimistic, I usually say, "No, I'm realistic." I suppose I identify more as a "realist" if that's a thing, but oh well. I'd identify as a pessimist over an optimist any day.

I don't agree that being a realist also makes one a pessimist. I may be optimistic but I am also realistic in my expectations of myself and those around me. Some things might not work out but so long as I am not imprisoned or dead I consider a positive outcome always in reach.

 

[Fashhole]

I don't agree that being a realist also makes one a pessimist. I may be optimistic but I am also realistic in my expectations of myself and those around me. Some things might not work out but so long as I am not imprisoned or dead I consider a positive outcome always in reach.

I'll admit I don't really understand the concept of a "realistic optimist" even though I'd wager that the odds of every optimist being unrealistic is low. I do have a bias towards pessimism being more realistic than optimism.

The optimists in my life kind of just say that stuff will work out in the end without evidence to support that claim. I assume it won't work out unless I can prove - or feel fairly confident, at minimum - it will (prior success, material evidence, etc). When the worst comes, I handle it because I saw it coming/prepared while the optimists sit in shock that it actually happened. When I suggest failure as the most likely outcome of a scenario (evidence-based, of course) and act under the assumption it will happen that way I'm called a pessimist as if that's an insult. I know one optimist in my life who consistently denies reality and substitutes it for her own peaches-and-cream one.

I definitely have a more cynical viewpoint than they do, which I think is more realistic. I know you probably don't agree, but I'd be curious to know why. Maybe my understanding of optimism is flawed. For instance, what's considered a positive outcome, if it's something that can always be in reach?

 

[Datiko]

I'll admit I don't really understand the concept of a "realistic optimist" even though I'd wager that the odds of every optimist being unrealistic is low. I do have a bias towards pessimism being more realistic than optimism.

The optimists in my life kind of just say that stuff will work out in the end without evidence to support that claim. I assume it won't work out unless I can prove - or feel fairly confident, at minimum - it will (prior success, material evidence, etc). When the worst comes, I handle it because I saw it coming/prepared while the optimists sit in shock that it actually happened. When I suggest failure as the most likely outcome of a scenario (evidence-based, of course) and act under the assumption it will happen that way I'm called a pessimist as if that's an insult. I know one optimist in my life who consistently denies reality and substitutes it for her own peaches-and-cream one.

I definitely have a more cynical viewpoint than they do, which I think is more realistic. I know you probably don't agree, but I'd be curious to know why. Maybe my understanding of optimism is flawed. For instance, what's considered a positive outcome, if it's something that can always be in reach?

Your view is hard to pinpoint without examples. What you describe is not what I would consider pessimism. I would consider it being practical. You aren't planning for the worst solely because you think it always happens, you're preparing for an outcome you see coming. Pessimism is different. Its taking a negative outlook on any situation regardless of apparent facts. That's the whole point of the famous "Glass half full/Half empty" question.

The people you encounter are unrealistic optimists; they think that success and good things will happen regardless of what they do. A realistic optimist believes everything will work out but takes precautions to ensure their desired outcome. I always wear a safety belt whenever I ride in a car. Not because I think the trip will end in tragedy but because I believe the precaution will let me walk away from an accident thus getting closer to other goals I believe will happen. My overall view is that as long as I play my part well, that I am free, and that I am alive, everything will work out.

 

[Fashhole]

Your view is hard to pinpoint without examples. What you describe is not what I would consider pessimism. I would consider it being practical. You aren't planning for the worst solely because you think it always happens, you're preparing for an outcome you see coming. Pessimism is different. Its taking a negative outlook on any situation regardless of apparent facts. That's the whole point of the famous "Glass half full/Half empty" question.

The people you encounter are unrealistic optimists; they think that success and good things will happen regardless of what they do. A realistic optimist believes everything will work out but takes precautions to ensure their desired outcome. I always wear a safety belt whenever I ride in a car. Not because I think the trip will end in tragedy but because I believe the precaution will let me walk away from an accident thus getting closer to other goals I believe will happen. My overall view is that as long as I play my part well, that I am free, and that I am alive, everything will work out.

Yeah, like I said I'm not a true pessimist but I definitely am more inclined to believe the bad will happen over the good so I identify as a pessimist more than I identify as an optimist. I have been described as a very practical person as well Idk how I'd give an example of my view though... I guess the important point is I agree with your evaluation I'm not a true pessimist - I'm more of a realist.

Realistic optimists take precautions to ensure their desired outcomes? That's not really something I've ever encountered... but it makes the whole "realistic optimist" thing make a lot more sense. Your seatbelt example.. as long as it can somehow facilitate (however small amount) the reaching of another goal, it is a positive outcome? Seems a bit broad to me, but hey.

I know I have a huge beef with the phrase "everything will work out" because of personal experience. I mostly hear it from the optimists in my life. For me it just paints a picture of someone sitting there denying the reality in front of them - reality being not everything works out and not everything will somehow end up going their way in the end. The shit I have seen, and these people just utter that phrase... for instance, my mother got stage 4 cancer and probably had less than a 25% chance of living when I was a kid. My older sister [caretaker at the time] basically said it would work out and she'd live, then never visited - and by extension, never let me visit - mom at the cancer center she was living at because it was far and she'd get better anyway. Who the fuck does that? My sister better thank whatever she believes in mom made it through somehow, because holy damn she'd never have lived that down.

I guess the question I have is what do you mean by "everything will work out?" If optimists (the realistic ones, anyway) mean something that's not like what I described above I'd like to know. I guess as a side, what if you take precautions, but it goes bad anyway?

Just a thought, if all my autistic trying to understand optimists stuff is starting to annoy feel free to just say that haha

 

[Datiko]

No lah, you are asking valid questions. I am not easily (or really ever) offended. "Everything can work out" is used as a platitude for most people; I mean it quite literally. Every situation will work itself out to a conclusion and as an optimist I believe that the outcome will push the universe towards a more positive state. Maybe two people fell in love at the cancer centre during your mother's treatment. Maybe your mother's needs created a headcount in the organization that helped another family onto a more stable financial footing. Abstract out even further, she created you and her passing provided an up sight that helped form your personality. At the risk of going darker, maybe her death opened treatment capacity for somebody who could be saved. A tragedy from one perspective can also be a blessing from another.

Going back to my previous example if I am alive I believe that my goals will work themselves out. Simultaneously, I don't see my demise as a failure but rather one of the logical conclusions to my life. One can't win if they don't play and shouldn't bother if they don't believe they will win.

 

[Fashhole]

No lah, you are asking valid questions. I am not easily (or really ever) offended. "Everything can work out" is used as a platitude for most people; I mean it quite literally. Every situation will work itself out to a conclusion and as an optimist I believe that the outcome will push the universe towards a more positive state. Maybe two people fell in love at the cancer centre during your mother's treatment. Maybe your mother's needs created a headcount in the organization that helped another family onto a more stable financial footing. Abstract out even further, she created you and her passing provided an up sight that helped form your personality. At the risk of going darker, maybe her death opened treatment capacity for somebody who could be saved. A tragedy from one perspective can also be a blessing from another.

Going back to my previous example if I am alive I believe that my goals will work themselves out. Simultaneously, I don't see my demise as a failure but rather one of the logical conclusions to my life. One can't win if they don't play and shouldn't bother if they don't believe they will win.

My sister better thank whatever she believes in mom made it through somehow, because holy damn she'd never have lived that down.

Okay so firstly my mom's not dead (I got confused because I thought I didn't say she lived for a second, but I did and quoted it), so it did actually "work out" like that but now I think I get the whole "working out" thing a bit more. Optimists may just take whatever it is and if it does something good for someone it's working out. That makes it sound a bit less oblivious than before with "it'll work out for me/them" which sounds really dumb in the face of 100% no. I'm pretty sure my sister was that dumb though.

I'm a bit more egocentric. If I don't personally - or someone I know/care about doesn't - benefit it's either a neutral or negative outcome depending. It's negative or neutral for me personally - it's great for them - but what do I care? I don't know them and I don't know what its done or what happened unless if I'm literally told, "Hey did you know by failing that test, Jimmy here..." I usually don't find much comfort from such a thing. I mean, I get your point, but still that's me.

Death is obviously the conclusion of life and not really a "failure," so I agree with you. I don't necessarily believe that by virtue of being alive my goals will work out. Failure and bad outcomes are an inevitable part of life. I say this, of course, in the sense of me personally. Like, if I get fired from a job I wanted to have long-term I don't think "Well now somebody who needs this job more than me can have it" I think, "Well, this sucks. Now I have to borrow money from my mom." Telling me about that somebody would just make me say "That's great for them" in a really artificial voice. Sounds kinda dick-ish, but I can't be happy for everyone all the time. I have a basic care for all people, but I can only truly give a shit about so many people. My failure was their gain, sure, but I failed. It didn't work out for me. It worked out for them.

 

[Tragi-Chan]

Whether I'm an optimist or a pessimist depends on my mood. If I'm having a good day, I'm an optimist. If I'm having a bad day, I'm a pessimist. As a whole, though, in the long term, I take the view that there's no good or bad force driving my personal universe. Every event is the result of millions of others. The good thing that happened today may lead to the bad thing tomorrow, and vice versa. My bad fortune may be someone else's good fortune. I think in general my view could be summed up as "Stuff just happens."

 

[Joan Nyan]

In the past I was a pessimistic realist, I've found recently that unrealistic optimism has gotten me much further in life. I ignore the possibility of things going wrong and believe that everything will be fine. Naive? Sure. Delusional? Maybe. But you can't argue with results, and I'm much happier now than when I was a "realist".

 

[Connor Bible]

I'm undecided, myself. I have an unfortunate tendency, possibly inherited on a genetic level from my mother, to see things in black and white without much thought about life's ambiguities and ironies. I feel as though I am in a constant tug-of-war between worldviews, a kind of cognitive dissonance. This cognitive dissonance is pervasive in many aspects of my life. I want to write, but what if isn't good enough? I want to get a job and make something of myself, but do I have what it takes? I could go on.

Life can have equal balances of sugar and shit. I find that trying to live in the moment without my preconceived, subjective notions clouding my judgment usually results in a happier days.

 

[AP 297]

I am inherently an optimist. I really do believe in the future.

I believe that no matter how dark things are, you have the benefit of waking up the next day and being able to decide how it can be. You can decide your own fate. Yeah, circumstances can pop up and for me that is often, but I march often trudging through them. I believe in a better tomorrow.

I want it. The present itself is filled with wonderful things as well and having an optimistic attitude opens you up to more of that.

Pessimistic realism to me is irrational, simply because it is impossible to know every variable. You really do not know that something will fail or is impossible until you attempt it.

 

[Obnoxion]

A no-nonsense answer would be that things are looking up for me, judging by the events of last year.

In general, though, I try to cast the past and the future aside. You know, to not judge current events based on days gone by, or assume I know what will happen. Beginner's mind and all that, every day a new beginning. It's tough to have any consistent outlook on the future of the world - optimistic, pessimistic, or otherwise - with no past to use as frame of reference.

Then there are the ideas of good and bad things. The broader your perspective, the more nebulous these concepts seem. I think habitually and intensely whenever I get the chance, in ways both practical and not really practical. My point of view shifts around a lot. I've become somewhat far removed from reality. The meaning of "good" and "bad" depends on the context. Currently I have none.

Observing the present just now I notice one thing: there is change happening. A very slow but gradual one. These thoughts are proof enough. That's all I know.

 

[Plushy]

I learned a long time ago optimism leads to nothing but disappointment haha.

Although when people say I'm pessimistic, I usually say, "No, I'm realistic." I suppose I identify more as a "realist" if that's a thing, but oh well. I'd identify as a pessimist over an optimist any day.

Mostly this. Sometimes when things get really hard I tend to be pessimistic, even fatalist in extreme situations, but under normal situations where decisions are important I tried to be the most realistic possible. A complete pessimist don't try things if exist a minimum error rate, in the other hand a full optimist tend to minimize consequences that can be important in long term. So, if something looks good, and they're ways to research the goal even with a plan B or C you should strive for it, however it things went wrong right from the start and the most important factors don't depend of you, the most wise thing could it be give up in the correct moment.

 

[Eldritch]

keeping a good or bad outlook of the future is pointless to me. what happens happens and I should deal with it regardless. Ultimately, we live in the present.

 

[Overcast]

I guess it depends on how I feel really.

Being too optimistic about something could lead to disappointment if that something fails to deliver.

At the same time, feeling pessimistic is exhausting.