Pistol Red Dot (MRDS) Omnibus

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Dan Backslide Esq.

kiwifarms.net
Joined
Jan 9, 2024
Due to my recent autistic pursuits in this area and @Null wanting to potentially foster a community or board similar to /k/, I figure I would start an Omnibus for Micro Red Dots Sights (MRDS) aka, pistol red dots. I intend to update this list yearly or whenever there is a major development in this field, which seems to be changing rather quickly in comparison to other optic areas. I am not going to say I am the foremost expert in this field, but to those with similar experience, or more, I am doubtful these recommendations will be controversial. Some of this information may be rudimentary, but I am hopeful it will be helpful to a wide range of skill levels and interests. If anyone else would like to chime in or add anything, I am not above adding that into the main post. This first post serves as an introduction for what to consider before picking an MRDS. If you’re already past that point, the second post will contain the tier/recommendations for the MRDS themselves. Without further ado, on to the topic.

There are several things you will need to consider when picking a red dot. Some basic parameters the following:

  1. Optic Footprint (RMR, DPP, C-more, RMSc, Etc.)
  2. Mounting System (Direct, Plate, Universal, Etc.)
  3. Torque Tools
  4. Cost (Brand and Country of Manufacture)
  5. Battery Compartment Location and Runtime
  6. Open vs Closed Emitter (Is the laser projector exposed to open air or is it sealed.)
  7. Reticle Size, Style, and Color (Vulcan ACSS, 1-10 MOA Red Dot, Circle Dot, Etc.)
  8. Astigmatism (Do you have it? How bad is that shit?)

There may be something I failed to cover, but the above is a good place to start when thinking of getting a MRDS for your pistol. They’re not in any particular order, however number one is arguably the most important as this will directly limit what you can put on your pistol. So let's talk about the optic cut.


Optic Footprint

If you want a quick TL;DR of which optic cut you should get on your pistol in the year of our lord two thousand and twenty four, get an RMR cut. It will give you the most options in regards to red dots to pick from. If you would like to learn a little more, read onward.

Most modern pistols now come with optic cut slides with multiple variants, and some even come with a universal mounting system, but more on that later. Since MRDS is a relatively new area, a lot of different companies are jockeying to make their “cut” the industry standard. This can make things very fucking confusing when it comes on what you need so PAY VERY CLOSE ATTENTION to what footprint an MRDS is espousing before buying it as you may have compatibility issues with your cut. There are a lot of footprints out there, but these stood out the most to me due to the amount of compatible optics for each cut. These are the RMR, Doctor/Noblex, RMS/RMSc, and Holosun K footprints.

The RMR footprint is based on the tried and true Trijicon RMR, which has been an industry standard in regards to carry MRDS for a while now. A benefit to this as mentioned above is you have a wide variety of MRDS to choose from. Also a lot of times if you make an oopsie doopsie and pick an MRDS that does not fit that cut, there usually is a conversion plate that will correct that issue for you. Big manufacturers (Glocks, S&W, etc.) make their pistols compatible with this footprint from the factory or you can have it milled on a non-optic cut pistol.

The Doctor/Noblex footprint I will admit I am less familiar with. There are a fuck-ton of options, but none of which impressed nor excited me. My experience and knowledge I will admit are lacking here, but there are a wide variety of MRDS offered for this footprint. Be forewarned, I am not seeing a lot of recent MRDS using this cut, nor does it seem to be offered on major manufacturer’s pistols, with the exception of the PSA Dagger. You can, however, send out your slide and have this cut milled onto your slide like the above cut. There are a few options as far as conversion plates, but a cursory look at options seems limited. Nevertheless, if there is anything else I should add here, mention it below.

RMS/RMSc is another widely adapted footprint. The RMS is a larger footprint compared to the RMSc, but an adapter plate can be used to convert an RMS to an RMSc. While a fair amount of MRDS use the RMS footprint, it seems the majority are older and are becoming less popular much like the Doctor/Noblex footprint. That said, the RMSc footprint seems to have caught on. Especially in the compact/subcompact pistol category. The RMSc also seems to be a viable option for pistols with limited real estate for material removal on slides. If you are looking for an optic for your concealed carry, and I seriously hope you consider it, then the RMSc footprint may be right for you.

Finally the Holosun K footprint. This is a modification of the RMSc, and much like it, is usually done on subcompact pistols or those that can’t afford much of the slide removed, like some hammer fired systems. A reason you may consider this over the RMSc is it may be the difference between keeping your rear sight versus removing it. While there isn’t a whole lot of MRDS that can use this footprint, yet, I do feel it has potential and what is available is perfectly suitable for carry.

One last point about any footprint. Depending on how they are done and who they are done by, some will require the complete removal of the rear iron sight. If that is something you want to keep on, like me, that may limit which guns or slide cuts you can do. For more in depth information on footprints, check out the following link.

https://www.optics-trade.eu/blog/footprints-on-red-dot-sights/


Mounting System

The ranking is as follows:

Direct > Universal > Plate

In layman's terms, this means it is usually better to put on an optic for the cut you have then buy an adapter plate for that optic. Why? One major reason is the MRDS will sit at its absolute lowest point on your slide. Besides making it a more compact package it also makes it easier to co-witness your iron sights on this pistol with your MRDS, in case the red dot should fail. You will usually need suppressor height sights at minimum, but some plate systems are so high suppressor height sights aren’t even high enough. This can be a dealbreaker for some of you. For a few MRDSs I personally don’t have a problem with this. Direct mounts are also more secure than a plate system. Why? You are in essence placing a mount on a mount which introduces more areas to fail. It can also be difficult to tell if your plate screws are starting to back off as they are often underneath the optic. This can change your point of impact over time. As a friendly reminder, ALWAYS USE LOCKTITE (I recommend blue (242)) ON YOUR MOUNTING SCREWS. Vibra-tite was also recommended and by all accounts looks to be better. Another tip is to index (or mark) your mounting screws with a white paint pen or whatever else that won't wash off. This may clue you in if your mounting system or optic is coming loose. Finally, direct mounts often include additional lugs that help secure the MRDS and take some of the force from the recoil of your firearm off the mounting screws, thus giving added recoil protection to your MRDS. That said, I have personally used all of the above types and have not had any issues with any of them. Yet.

There is one additional system called a chassis system, but that is usually reserved for race/competition guns and is beyond the scope of this topic. They generally fit any MRDS and it takes all of the recoil force off the optic as it is not attached to the slide. The added benefit is the MRDS is easier to keep on target as it isn’t moving around. The drawback is this system is big and bulky. Hence why it is mostly for competition use.


Torque Tools

Since you are likely going to invest hundreds of dollars into an MRDS, not factoring in the amount of money on the firearm itself, it would be retarded to not properly torque down the optic per the manufacturers recommendations. All MRDS and plates have a recommended torque settings in in./lbs or Nm that should be followed. Over tightening and/or under tightening can have severe consequences on accuracy and can cause the hardware to fail. Not following these proper guidelines makes it hard to pinpoint any issue you may be experiencing with your MRDS if any arise. Below are recommendations for torque tools. There is a saying that you should purchase the best tool you can afford for the job you're doing. I personally don't think it is wise to cheap out on any measurement device, but I will put a budget friendly option if you can't spend that kind of money.

Fix-It Sticks
https://store.fixitsticks.com/collections/optics-mounting

Borka Tools (The site looks real shitty, but the tools are fantastic.)
https://shooterstools.com/Pages/BTD/btdkits.html

Wheeler F.A.T. Wrench (Budget option. Can usually be had for 40-50$.)
https://www.wheelertools.com/fat-wrenches/wheeler-f.a.t.-wrench/4001002.html

Upon further reflection, I would suggest getting the specific Fix-It Sticks you need for your project over the Wheeler. Being charitable however I have not heard of many issues with people using the Wheeler, so to each their own. As a generalized warning, MAKE SURE THE TORQUE WRENCH IS IN THE PROPER UNIT OF MEASUREMENT. If you end up using ft./lbs versus in./lbs you deserve your retarded consequences.


Cost

Cost is a subjective thing. The price range is roughly 100$ to 900$ base price. Personally I am a buy once cry once kind of person and that will reflect in my recommendations below. Keeping that in mind, you can find some excellent deals on the lower end of the price range that are excellent quality. It may take some patience and monitoring to take advantage of these sale prices. Another thing to keep in mind, a lot of firearm retailers take advantage of more than just the 4th of July and Black Friday for sale prices. This is assuming you can wait.


Battery Compartment Location and Runtime

A lot of early MRDS, and some currently popular ones, use a battery compartment on the bottom of the optic. Most have an absurd run time of 20k-50k hours at the middle most setting, giving you at minimum 2 years before changing them leaving it on 24/7. If it is on a gun you intend for self-defense at home or otherwise, you WILL leave it on all the time. It is one less thing to worry about when you are in a stressful situation. Having said that, for these MRDSs, I would recommend changing the battery yearly, but no more than 2 years on a 50k hour runtime MRDS. There is no point in risking it not being available when you need it. Also, don’t be a cheap fucker and get good quality coin batteries. Now returning to the point about the battery being on the bottom. When you change the battery, you will need to remove the MRDS from the pistol. An issue with battery compartments in this location is once you do that, you will need to sight in your pistol again. Be that as it may, all of the pistols I’ve maintained for my family members with this style of MRDS required very little, if any, adjustment when I confirmed the “zero” of the dot. You may have a similar experience, but don’t grow complacent and ALWAYS recheck and confirm your “zero”.

The current direction of the MRDS market is leaning towards any number of options that don’t require the removal of the MRDS to replace the battery. The drawback to this is that they generally use smaller coin batteries. Personally, I favor these offerings and there are plenty of options to choose from. As a reminder, like bottom compartment batteries, if you ever remove the MRDS from your pistol you will need to check your “zero” after putting it back on.


Open vs. Closed Emitter

This area doesn’t require too much explanation. Most MRDSs on the market are open emitters. Simply put, the laser emitter that projects your red dot on the glass is open to the elements. In theory, and practice, something could get in there and interfere with the projection of your red dot. Thus you have nothing to aim with. However, the concern over this is somewhat overblown. Some of the top recommended optics still are open emitters and if you maintain your firearm properly, this is unlikely to be an issue.

Closed emitters are just as it sounds, completely encased emitters. This is the new-ish trend on the market and has seen consistent development from several major manufacturers over the past couple of years. Because of the added material and newer design, a lot of your more expensive MRDSs will be in this category. This also tends to be difficult if not impossible to co-witness your iron sights with, so keep that in mind. Despite this, that may be a non-issue as most of these are much more robust then their open emitter counterparts. Another thing to consider if you are choosing a closed emitter, most use a proprietary footprint and you will likely need to get an adapter plate when mounting it. You can sometimes get slide said footprints, but your options will be EXTREMELY LIMITED if you ever want to change your MRDS.


Reticle Size, Style, and Color

When MRDS first entered the market, your options were limited to only a circle dot. Now there is a fair amount of variety and sizes. I am starting to see the bullseye style circle dot with options to have only the inner circle dot, outer circle, or both displayed more offered with newer MRDS. There is also the ACSS Vulcan reticle which has a fuckhuge circle with either a circle dot in the center or a chevron. The thought process behind the circle is it helps you find the center of your reticle as you shouldn’t see the circle. Depending on what part of the circle you see, that will clue you in on how to correct your sight picture. This can be helpful for those new to MRDS on pistols. Also, I personally like chevron/triangle style reticles as you can use the tip of the triangle as your aiming point for precise shooting and the body for quick or close shooting. Another thing to think about is with reticle complexity comes a decreased battery life, some significantly so. Most of these more complex systems allow you to change the reticle to a simple circle dot or the chevron/triangle. This in turn can recover most of your lost battery life. The vast majority of MRDS still have simple circle dots with varying sizes. See link below for more information.

https://freedomgorilla.com/blogs/news/holosun-acss-vulcan-optics-overview

There can be a misconception that the smaller the dot the better. While that can be useful for precision shooting at longer distances, it can slow you down when you “gotta go fast” in such shooting situations. Pistols aren’t super accurate to begin with, at least compared to rifles, and you generally won't be required to make 100 yard precision shots with them. Keep in mind most self defense situations occur within 10 yards. What does it all mean? Even a 10 MOA dot is perfectly serviceable for most purposes and some may actually prefer it. For personal protection, I would recommend starting in the 3-6 MOA range. Other than that, it’s all preference with no real right answer.

As far as color is concerned, your options are green and red. Green is thought to be easier to pick up by your eye quicker as you have more green color receptors in your eye, but I don’t think that translates into anything meaningful nor have I seen much evidence to suggest so. You may also want to avoid green reticles if you live in an area with a lot of green foliage or green in general. As far as I am concerned it is all preference on what color you like. Green emitters generally cost more and are more energy intensive, so often you will see the green models with less battery life compared to their red counterparts.


Astigmatism

A non-insignificant number of you suffer from astigmatism. This can cause what is known as “starbursting” of the red dot on your optic making it less crisp, clear, and ultimately bigger. For long distances this could cause an issue. However, since we’re talking about pistols, it may be annoying but the effect is negligible. If you have appropriately sighted in your pistol, so long as you put the dot on your intended target you will hit it. One may think, well since it is going to starburst, I might as well get the smallest dot possible. Interestingly enough, your results may vary. A number of factors can contribute to this and in some cases the larger dots may be clearer than the smaller dots. Below is a link of someone experimenting with this issue.

Is there any way around this issue? Kind of. Prism optics use an etched reticle and do not cause the starbursting you would see with a red dot. Reflex optics like EOTechs have also been reported to be much more forgiving. The issue lies that these optic systems require more space, and at this current time, I am unaware of any micronized system. So when it comes to pistol MRDS, you're stuck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz8LPDm6Of0

If there is anything that posters want me or others to try and extrapolate on or cover, I can edit that in later. With all that out of the way, on to the recommendations.
 
Last edited:
I imagine this is going to be the most interesting post for the majority of you. I will link the model to the manufacturer’s website and try to keep up with any broken links. I wouldn’t recommend buying the MRDS from these links, as you're unlikely to find a deal. For that I would use the following:

https://gun.deals/

If someone else has a better suggestion I can add it. One final thing to note, I prioritize non-Chinese made MRDS. Despite that, I can recognize when something made in China can or is good, and if they fill a niche that US/Japanese/European made optics are failing to field, I will use them. I won't shame anyone who uses Chinese made products, as it is my own personal preference. I will put notes by each MRDS, but I will not be going into full blown details. The amount of notes shouldn’t be indicative of how good or bad something is, they are just caveats I think may be helpful. The category will be the main indicator of quality. If you would like to learn more, click the link.


Top Tier/Highest Recommendation
MRDS in this category are proven by “duty” use or have had extensive torture testing done on them. I would be comfortable not having a co-witness of my iron sights with any of the closed emitters. As for the open emitters, if the only way to get the MRDS on my pistol was to remove the rear sight, while not preferred, I would be okay with.

Closed Emitter:
Trijicon RCR
https://www.trijicon.com/products/details/rcr1-c-3300001
+ USA Made
+ Uses the RMR Footprint
+ Uses CR2032 Coin Battery
+ 6 Year Battery Life at Setting 5
- Expensive

Aimpoint ACRO P-2/C-2
https://www.aimpoint.com/products/a...-reflex-sight-with-integrated-acro-interface/
https://www.aimpoint.com/products/a...-reflex-sight-with-integrated-acro-interface/
+ Swedish Made
+ Uses CR2032 Coin Battery
+ Side Load Battery Compartment
+ 5 Year Battery Life at Setting 6
- Acro Footprint
- Small window compared to competitors
- Expensive

Steiner MPS
https://www.steiner-optics.com/products/mps-micro-pistol-sight
+ German made
+ Uses 1632 Coin Battery
+ Can find it on sale for under $400
+ Top Load Battery Compartment
+/- Auto Off
+/- 13000 Hour Battery Life at Setting 4
- Acro Footprint

Holosun 509/509T
https://holosun.com/products/reflex-sight/509/he509t-rd-x2.html
+ Titanium Housing (Older or ACSS models use 7075 aluminum which is still quite good)
+ Multiple Reticle Options (Available in Green)
+ Solar and Battery Powered
+ Auto Off and Shake Awake Feature
+ Uses 1632 Coin Battery
+ Side Load Battery Compartment
+ 5 Year Battery Life on Setting 6
+/- Can find it on sale for under $400
- Made in China
- Requires Adapter Plate to Mount

Holosun EPS MRS/EPS Carry MRS/EPS/EPS Carry
https://holosun.com/products/reflex-sight/eps/eps-red-mrs.html
https://holosun.com/products/reflex-sight/eps/eps-carry-red-mrs.html
https://holosun.com/products/reflex-sight/eps/eps-red-6.html
https://holosun.com/products/reflex-sight/eps/eps-carry-red-6.html
+ Multiple Reticle Options (Available in Green)
+ Solar and Battery Powered (Battery Powered Only Available for Less)
+ Auto Off and Shake Awake Feature
+ Side Load Battery Compartment
+ 5 Year Battery Life on Setting 6
+ Built in Rear Sight
+ Can find it on sale for under $400, Non-MRS models under $300
+/- Uses CR1620 Coin Battery
- Made in China
- Holosun K Footprint

Open Emitter:
Trijicon RMR HD
https://www.trijicon.com/products/details/rmhd2-c-3200002
+ USA Made
+ Uses the RMR Footprint
+ Uses CR2032 Coin Battery
+ Top Loading Battery
+ Large Viewing Window
+ Index Ridge Alignment Aid
+ 3 Year Battery Life, Unknown at what setting
+/- Auto Brightness Sensor (Can be turned off)
- Expensive

Trijicon SRO
https://www.trijicon.com/products/details/sro2-c-2500002
+ USA Made
+ Uses the RMR Footprint
+ Uses CR2032 Coin Battery
+ Top Loading Battery
+ Large Viewing Window
+ 3 Year Battery Life at Setting 4
+/- Auto Brightness Sensor (Can be turned off)
+/- Can Be Found for under $500
- Not as Robust as the RMR or RMR HD

Trijicon RMR Type 2 Adjustable LED
https://www.trijicon.com/products/details/rm06-c-700672
+ USA Made
+ Uses the RMR Footprint
+ 4 Year Battery Life at Setting 4
+ Uses CR2032 Coin Battery
+ Industry Standard
+/- Auto Brightness Sensor (Can be turned off)
- Small Viewing Window Compared to Competitors
- Older Design
- Expensive for a basic system
- Bottom Loading Battery

Holosun 508T
https://holosun.com/products/reflex-sight/508/he508t-rd-x2.html
+ Titanium Housing
+ RMR Footprint
+ Multiple Reticle Options (Available in Green)
+ Solar and Battery Powered
+ Auto Off and Shake Awake Feature
+ Uses CR1632 Coin Battery
+ Side Load Battery Compartment
+ 5 Year Battery Life on Setting 6
+ Can find it on sale for under $400
- Made in China

Holosun 407C X2/507C X2
https://holosun.com/products/reflex-sight/407/hs407c-x2.html
https://holosun.com/products/reflex-sight/507/hs507c-x2.html
+ RMR Footprint
+ Multiple Reticle Options for 507C (Available in Green)
+ Solar/Battery and Battery Powered Options
+ Auto Off and Shake Awake Feature
+ Uses CR1632 Coin Battery
+ Side Load Battery Compartment
+ 5 Year Battery Life on Setting 6
+ Can find it on sale for under $300 ($169 for 407C base models)
- Made in China
- The least robust in this Tier.

Holosun 407K X2/507K X2
https://holosun.com/products/reflex-sight/407/hs407k-x2.html
https://holosun.com/products/reflex-sight/507/hs507k-x2.htm
+ Multiple Reticle Options for the 507k model (Available in Green)
+ Auto Off and Shake Awake Feature
+ Uses 1632 Coin Battery
+ Side Load Battery Compartment
+ 5 Year Battery Life on Setting 6
+ Can find it on sale for under $300 (Under $250 for the 407K model)
- Made in China
- Holosun K Footprint


Mid Tier/Promising
MRDSs lumped in this category are considered competent choices but are lacking in certain areas. This could be due to the durability of the MRDS, price compared to its competitors, or not much testing has been done on them. Even so, they have some promising design features that make them attractive. I would still recommend an iron sight co-witness on any of these optics.

Closed Emitter:
Meprolight MPO PRO-F/PRO-S
https://www.meprolight.com/product/mpo-pro-f/
https://www.meprolight.com/product/mpo-pro-s/
+ Made in the Philippines (Surprisingly a lot of Low-Mid to Mid Optics are made here)
+ RMR Footprint on F Models / RMSc Footprint on S Models
+ Multiple Reticle Options
+ Auto Off and Shake Awake Feature
+ Uses CR1632 Coin Battery
+ Side Load Battery Compartment
+ 2 Year Battery Life on Setting 5
+ Can find it on sale for under $300
+/- Auto Brightness Sensor (Can be turned off)
- Relatively New / Little to No Data on Torture Testing

Sig Sauer Romeo X Enclosed Pro/Compact
https://www.sigsauer.com/romeo-x-pro-enclosed.html
https://www.sigsauer.com/romeo-x-compact-enclosed.html
+ Multiple Reticle Options
+ Auto Off and Shake Awake Feature
+ Uses CR1632 Coin Battery
+ Side Loading Battery
+ 2 Year Battery Life, Unknown at what setting
+ Side Load Battery Compartment
+ Can find it on sale for under $450
+/- Assembled in the USA
- Sig Sauer Propriety Footprint
- Little to No Data on Torture Testing

Lead and Steel PB-3
https://leadandsteel.co/shop/pandora-pb-3-micro-red-dot-sight/0
+ Multiple Reticle Options
+ Uses CR2032 Coin Battery
+ Side Loading Battery
+ 3 Year Battery Life, Unknown at what setting
+ Can find it on sale for under $350
+/- Japanese Glass, Everything Else, Made in China
- Owner is "Cease and Desist" happy on negative reviews.
- Acro Footprint

Primary Arms PLx HTX-1 ACSS and Non-ACSS
https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-plx-htx-1-enclosed-reflex-sight-acss-vulcan-dot-reticle
+ All but the emitter crystal, which is made in Germany, is made in the USA
+ RMR Footprint and Glock MOS compatible
+ Multiple Reticle Options
+ Side Loading Battery
+ Uses CR2032 Coin Battery
+ 2.2 Year Battery Life on "Medium" Setting (Likely 5 or 6 of 11)
+ Auto Off and Shake Awake Feature
+ Lowest and Slimmest profile of any Closed Emitter MRDS on the market
- New / Little to No Data on Torture Testing
- Expensive ($649 - $699)
(If this has no major flaws that pop up in a years time, this will likely get moved into top tier.)

Gideon Mediator
https://gideonoptics.com/shop-all/gideon-optics-mediator/
+ Side Loading Battery
+ Uses CR2032 Coin Battery
+ Multiple Reticle Options
+ 5.5 Year Battery Life, however no mention on what brightness level.
+ Can get it at ~$225 with discount code
+ Decent Warranty
+/- Built "Robust" like an Acro
+/- Decent amount of videos of people torture testing them, but I would like to see more controlled testing.
- Acro Footprint
- Acro Window Size
- Made in China

Gideon Valor MRDS
https://gideonoptics.com/shop-all/valor-mini-enclosed-emitter-micro-red-dot-sight/
+ RMSc Footprint
+ Auto Off and Shake Awake Feature
+ Housing looks on par with many "Top Tier" optics
+ Decent Warranty
+ Can get it at ~$250 with discount code
+/- Uses CR1620 Coin Battery
+/- Claims "Thousands of Hours of Battery Life", but no definitive literature on the amount.
- Made in China
- New / Little to No Data on Torture Testing

Open Emitter:
Meprolight MPO-F/MPO-S
https://www.meprolight.com/product/mpo-f/
https://www.meprolight.com/product/mpo-s/
+ Made in the Philippines
+ RMR Footprint on F Models / RMSc Footprint on S Models
+ Multiple Reticle Options
+ Uses CR1632 Coin Battery
+ Side Load Battery Compartment
+ Auto Off and Shake Awake Feature
+ 2 Year Battery Life on Setting 5
+ Can find it on sale for under $300
+/- Auto Brightness Sensor (Can be turned off)
- Relatively New / Little to No Data on Torture Testing

Leupold DeltaPoint Pro
https://www.leupold.com/deltapoint-pro-red-dot
+ USA Made
+ Auto Off and Shake Awake Feature
+ Uses CR2032 Coin Battery
+ Top Loading Battery
+ Large Viewing Window
+ Can find it on sale for under $300
+/- DeltaPoint Pro Footprint
- 1000 Hour Battery Life at “ Medium” Setting
- Older Design
- Durability is worse compared to many in it's class and below.

Sig Sauer Romeo-X Pro/Compact
https://www.sigsauer.com/romeo-x-pro.html
https://www.sigsauer.com/romeo-x-compact.html
+ Multiple Reticle Options
+ Auto Off and Shake Awake Feature
+ Uses CR1632 Coin Battery
+ Side Loading Battery
+ 2 Year Battery Life, Unknown at what setting
+ Side Load Battery Compartment
+ Built in Rear Sight
+/- Assembled in the USA
- Sig Sauer Propriety Footprint
- Little to No Data on Torture Testing

Sig Sauer Romeo 2
https://www.sigsauer.com/romeo2-1x30-mm-reflex-sight.html
+ Multiple Reticle Options
+ Auto Off and Shake Awake Feature
+ Uses CR2032 Coin Battery
+ Side Loading Battery
+ 2.5 Year Battery Life, Unknown at what setting
+ Built in Rear Sight
+ Kit to Convert to “Closed” Optic
+/- Assembled in the USA
- Expensive, Especially for an open emitter MRDS
- Limited Torture Test Data

Vortex Defender ST/XL
https://vortexoptics.com/red-dots-defender-st+reticle-3~MOA~Defender~Dot
https://vortexoptics.com/reddots-defender-xl-micro-red-dot+reticle-5~MOA~Dot
+ Auto Off and Shake Awake Feature
+ Uses CR2032 Coin Battery
+ Top Loading Battery
+ 2.5 Year Battery Life at Setting 6
+/- DeltaPoint Pro Footprint
- Made in China
- Relatively New / Little to No Data on Torture Testing

Trijicon RMRcc
https://www.trijicon.com/products/details/cc07-c-3100002
+ USA Made
+ 4 Year Battery Life at Setting 4
+ Uses CR2032 Coin Battery
+ As Robust as an RMR
+/- Auto Brightness Sensor (Can be turned off)
+/- Can find it on sale for under $450
- Bottom Loading Battery
- Uses Proprietary RMRcc Footprint

Bushnell RXM-300
https://www.bushnell.com/red-dots/rxm-300-reflex-sight/BU-RXM300.html
+ Uses the RMR Footprint
+ Auto Off and Shake Awake Feature
+ Uses CR2032 Coin Battery
+ Top Loading Battery
+ 4 Year Battery Life at Setting 8
+ Large Viewing Window
- Unknown Country of Manufacture
- Relatively New / Little to No Data on Torture Testing

Gideon Rock MRDS
https://gideonoptics.com/shop-all/g...ight/?attribute_reticle-choice=Red+Circle+Dot
+ Multiple Reticle Options
+ Auto Off and Shake Awake Feature
+ Uses CR1632 Coin Battery
+ Top Loading Battery
+ 5.5 Year Battery Life, however no mention on what brightness level.
+ Copies the RMR Housing Design
+ Decent Warranty
+/- Can get it at ~$180 with discount code
+/- Decent amount of videos of people torture testing them, beating the shit out of them even, but I would like to see more controlled testing.
- A Holosun 407C X2 has a proven record and can cost as much or less.
- Made in China


Budget Tier/Plinking
I can’t recommend any of these for serious use. With that in mind, if you intend to use this for any sort of protection, you need a co-witness. These, for one reason or another, have failed during light testing and generally won’t be able to take much punishment. However, with careful use they will probably be fine. Knowing that, if you want to put it on a pistol for plinking or practice, there’s no harm in that. I don’t plan on putting any notes on these, just know that most can be had at around $100-$150ish plus or minus.

Open Emitter:
Sig Sauer Romeo Zero Elite
https://www.sigsauer.com/romeozero-elite-1x24-mm.html

Crimson Trace 1550
https://www.crimsontrace.com/products/electronic-sights/cts-1550-red-dot-sight/01-01960.html

Primary Arms Classic 21mm Micro Reflex Sight/24mm
https://www.primaryarms.com/primary...1mm-micro-reflex-sight-autolive-3-moa-red-dot
https://www.primaryarms.com/primary...24mm-mini-reflex-sight-autolive-3-moa-red-dot

Primary Arms GLx RS-15 Mini Reflex Sight
https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-glx-rs15-mini-reflex-sight-3-moa-dot

Meprolight MPO-DF/DS
https://www.meprolight.com/product/mepro-mpo-ds/
https://www.meprolight.com/product/mpo-df/

Bushnell RXS-100
https://www.bushnell.com/red-dots/rxs-100-reflex-sight/BU-RXS100.html

Burris FastFire 3
https://www.burrisoptics.com/red-dots/fastfire-3


Closing Thoughts
There is a guy that goes by Sage Dynamics who beats the shit out of MRDS and torture tests them fairly regularly. He also keeps track of round count when they failed or a continuing tally for those who haven’t failed. While this is a relatively small sample size, the information is interesting and insightful. Another bit of data he gathers is optics that have failed “in the line of duty”. There is also a lot of in depth information on just about everything related to MRDS. He updates it yearly and it is worth a read if you have the time. His torture test videos are also up on YouTube if you would like to give it a look.

https://www.sagedynamics.org/_files/ugd/7dc128_6377087e72264cd18dbcb04eea4686ce.pdf

This list barely scrapes the MRDS market. Besides what has been listed here, and some other major reputable manufacturers, most other red dots are made by a Chinese companies and are rebranded. If you insist on buying some random cheap Amazon red dot, do a little digging, you can probably find the base model on Alibaba at an even cheaper price. Don’t expect a whole lot out of these MRDSs though. Sometime in the future, I would like to do a full size red dot optic thread for rifles/shotguns if there seems to be enough interest.

Best of luck.

Updated 04/14/25
 
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Vibratite seems to be preferred to locktite for the small fasteners used on MRDS and plates.

Also use a torque driver.
 
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I just bought an opticguard shroud for the h407c, can I slap the shit out it to rack now or am I still going to fuck my shit? I’m slightly concerned about fucking the screws or glass. I dislike having to pinch rack from the back or getting my left hand too close to the muzzle.
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I guess I can share. Here are my two optic equipped pistols: Staccato P with Trijicon RCR and FK Brno PSD with Trijicon RMR. The RCR uses the RMR footprint, but it is enclosed and the battery is conveniently mounted on the top of the optic instead of underneath, so you never have to remove the optic to swap batteries. It also has a larger viewing window, so it's much quicker and easier to find the dot in a hurry. I like both, but prefer the RCR.

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I just bought an opticguard shroud for the h407c, can I slap the shit out it to rack now or am I still going to fuck my shit? I’m slightly concerned about fucking the screws or glass. I dislike having to pinch rack from the back or getting my left hand too close to the muzzle.
View attachment 6462271
Try putting some grip tape on the front of the slide and rack from there.

Racking the slide is usually an administrative task. Even if you are doing malfunction clearance, you shouldn’t have an issue with using your hand to push the optic.

 
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Just picked up a 92gts. I always get confused on the plates and compatibility of these things considering I never fucking buy them. Any strong recommendations that will actually fit.
 
Reposting my post here. Again I'm not going into the science of this but, it is true.

If you have a higher minus prescription from astigmatism or other conditions like it, you will want to try green reticles on optics. It is more likely to be less distorted. Ymmv. Everyone's eyes are different this is a general principal.


I also want to say, just because your dot isn't a perfect dot doesn't mean you're going to be less accurate or 'can't use one" I promise you, it will be fine and you'll be just as good as anyone else who practices if you do as well. Target focus, not on the dot.

Also if you're still doing reloads by going over the top it's a training scar and you're dumb. Use the slide release. It won't fail.
 
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Just picked up a 92gts. I always get confused on the plates and compatibility of these things considering I never fucking buy them. Any strong recommendations that will actually fit.
What optic where you going to get? After that is determined, then I or someone else could likely help you figure out what you need.
 
Also if you're still doing reloads by going over the top it's a training scar and you're dumb. Use the slide release. It won't fail.
1. If it works, it works. If it works for me, then that's what works for me. You're the dumb one for getting pissy over it.
2. Not all pistols have a slide release. Some have a slide catch where so little surface exists, it's impractical to attempt to use it and you have to slingshot the slide.
 
I was thinking of going with the steiner. So I'd need an... acro plate?
Spot on. It doesn't look like there are too many options for plates, so I would stick with Beretta's. I've come to enjoy my Steiner MPS and its funky look.


I got at cheap cyelee red dot from amazon and it seems to work great for the price.
I keep seeing these popping up more often and people supposedly liking them. Feel free to throw in your experiences with it. I will have to look into them more before I can have an informed opinion. I plan on doing a deep dive on Gideon optics as well due to their designer having worked for Primary Arms and I think Holosun. Their stuff looks promising.
 
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Spot on. It doesn't look like there are too many options for plates, so I would stick with Beretta's. I've come to enjoy my Steiner MPS and its funky look.

Yo. Was hoping you could help. Decided against the steiner because it's just not realistic to carry on a 92. Was hoping you could help me track down a delta point plus plate (gonna get an eotech flx). It just seems to be a nightmare to find plates for beretta and site reviews are worthless.
 
Yo. Was hoping you could help. Decided against the steiner because it's just not realistic to carry on a 92. Was hoping you could help me track down a delta point plus plate (gonna get an eotech flx). It just seems to be a nightmare to find plates for beretta and site reviews are worthless.
Unfortunately, it seems the market is starting to go away from the DPP footprint. So I'm not too surprised with the difficulty you're having. That said, I think I found something that may work. Confirm that your model is listed.


The only other option I am seeing is one that requires your to remove your rear sights and press in the plate.


Sorry for the delay in response, I was at a USPSA event this weekend. Good luck.
 
Anecdote: I've got a Gen 5 G19 MOS. I liked the Holosun SCS but was hesitant, knowing there are no batteries. It's been running for several years now without issue. I don't leave the house without it, including to work. If you're considering this type of RDS I say go for it.
 
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Unfortunately, it seems the market is starting to go away from the DPP footprint. So I'm not too surprised with the difficulty you're having. That said, I think I found something that may work. Confirm that your model is listed.


The only other option I am seeing is one that requires your to remove your rear sights and press in the plate.


Sorry for the delay in response, I was at a USPSA event this weekend. Good luck.
Gave up and went with a rmr 2. Thank you for looking.
 
Anecdote: I've got a Gen 5 G19 MOS. I liked the Holosun SCS but was hesitant, knowing there are no batteries. It's been running for several years now without issue. I don't leave the house without it, including to work. If you're considering this type of RDS I say go for it.
That's good to know. I get leery when control like that is taken away from me. How's the brightness? Bright enough for the desert after dawn and before dusk? If I'm not mistaken, it had an auto brightness feature. Do you find that it works well or did you disable it?

Gave up and went with a rmr 2. Thank you for looking.
Bummer, but you'll have a lot more options that way. Whatever optic you end up on, feel free to share your experiences here.


As an aside, I will be doing more thorough reviews on a few of the optics listed in my initial posts to keep this thread somewhat relevant. I've been doing steel challenge and USPSA events much more regularly and plan on giving my impressions on a more practical basis. I'll also conceal carrying with a few of them to guage realtive comfort and to see if that may cause potential issues. There were a few MRDS on my radar after Shot Show that I'll be keeping an eye on and they may get added to my list in the coming months if reports are promising.
 
That's good to know. I get leery when control like that is taken away from me. How's the brightness? Bright enough for the desert after dawn and before dusk? If I'm not mistaken, it had an auto brightness feature. Do you find that it works well or did you disable it?


Bummer, but you'll have a lot more options that way. Whatever optic you end up on, feel free to share your experiences here.


As an aside, I will be doing more thorough reviews on a few of the optics listed in my initial posts to keep this thread somewhat relevant. I've been doing steel challenge and USPSA events much more regularly and plan on giving my impressions on a more practical basis. I'll also conceal carrying with a few of them to guage realtive comfort and to see if that may cause potential issues. There were a few MRDS on my radar after Shot Show that I'll be keeping an eye on and they may get added to my list in the coming months if reports are promising.


trijicon. Got a decent price fit it. Unfortunately I am going to have to wait for a custom holster to be made for it(1 month). I love the 92. But it seems like putting a dot on it is just not popular. Found a guy that makes extra low plates though. I really wanted a closed emmiter but with the 92 already being a full size it starts to make it a little cartoonist to carry.

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