Privacy Conscious Appliances, Computers, and Phones Thread

[ScatmansWorld]

It's very obvious that over the years, large tech companies and corporations have been shoving microphones, cameras, and Wi-Fi cards into everything they possibly can to collect information from their customers. The purpose of this thread is to advertise privacy conscious alternatives as well as tips, tricks, and methods to protect yourself from electronic snooping as much as possible.

I'll start this thread with my most immediate concern. You can not buy a television set without a Wi-Fi card inside of it anymore. Or at least not without doing a lot more research than before.


The only TV brand that sells non-smart TVs directly to consumers I am aware of is called Sceptre, and they're sold exclusively at Wal-Mart from what I've been told.

https://www.sceptre.com/

I'd like to hear from other users what they've done to avoid smart TVs. Whether it's forcefully removing the Wi-Fi cards, buying "commercial displays" from big companies, or even getting bare components wholesale and making something yourself.

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

My TV is pretty old, but I'm going to be needed some new appliances soon. Assuming I can't physically disconnect the network cards, I'll probably set up an IoT network, which is basically the opposite of a wifi guest network. Something that will allow the devices to communicate with the LAN, but not the wider internet. Or if you don't care about that, just blackhole the traffic entirely. Surprisingly I'm having trouble finding a full, ready made guide for this, but here's a starting point.

https://forum.openwrt.org/t/best-practice-for-iot-devices/58217

 

[tehpope]

>OS​

Linux / FreeBSD are good choices for privacy conscious OS'. I would choose something that doesn't use systemd. Not that its bad. Its bloated and has tons of line of code. Which means its harder to fully inspect. I use Artix OpenRC edition. And I would swap out sudo for doas. Same reason: not as bloated, fewer lines of code to check.

>Hardware​

You're gonna want to get rid of the backdoors that exist on modern cpus. Both AMD and Intel have backdoors embedded in their cpus that allow unauthorized access to anyone's pc. AMD's PSP hasn't been cracked or tackled yet. But Intel's ME has been mitigated with Core and Libre boot.

For machines, I would look for anything that can run libreboot or coreboot. Libreboot is just a distro of coreboot that makes it easier to install. LB is run by a tranny mind you. But you can get machines preinstalled with libreboot from them.

https://libreboot.org/

https://minifree.org/

There are machines that aren't thinkpads or pre core2 duos that run core/libre boot.

https://libreboot.org/docs/hardware/

I did try and libreboot an hp laptop, but I fucked it up beyond normal repair. I think I can salvage it, but I broke one of the legs off the bios chip. It wasn't socketed to begin with.

There are a few machines that you can just flash libreboot on without having to get a RPI pico and directly wire up to the bios chip. I don't think this method is the best. Cause I tried a ton to read the chip and it never worked for me. I think something like a flashcatusb classic or pro with the proper adapter would be better.

https://www.embeddedcomputers.net/products/

>Apps​

For apps, there's some awesome lists out there that give you privacy respecting app alternatives to major apps.

https://git.nixnet.services/pluja/awesome-privacy

GitHub - pluja/awesome-privacy: Awesome Privacy - A curated list of services and alternatives that respect your privacy because PRIVACY MATTERS.

Awesome Privacy - A curated list of services and alternatives that respect your privacy because PRIVACY MATTERS. - GitHub - pluja/awesome-privacy: Awesome Privacy - A curated list of services and a...

github.com

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

I have to buy a new washer and dryer fairly soon. LG seems to be the best reviewed. However, they only sell smart appliances. I'm looking it into buying one and just physically disconnecting the wifi. My question is not so much how to do that. I found a video from just a couple years ago and it looks like a discrete module that's fairly trivial to disconnect. My question is, will the damn thing still work if it's not allowed to constantly phone home? Obviously, I do not give a shit about the "smart" features. I just want it to wash my clothes.

 

[SCV]

My TV is pretty old, but I'm going to be needed some new appliances soon. Assuming I can't physically disconnect the network cards, I'll probably set up an IoT network, which is basically the opposite of a wifi guest network. Something that will allow the devices to communicate with the LAN, but not the wider internet. Or if you don't care about that, just blackhole the traffic entirely. Surprisingly I'm having trouble finding a full, ready made guide for this, but here's a starting point.

https://forum.openwrt.org/t/best-practice-for-iot-devices/58217

IoT shit will often connect to open networks automatically if it doesn't have internet access so if you've got a guest network it's already jover. They will also often hard code their DNS servers and do other skeevy shit to try and get around network security you've setup. IMO you need to either buy something with no network connectivity or physically destroy the chip.

I have to buy a new washer and dryer fairly soon. LG seems to be the best reviewed. However, they only sell smart appliances. I'm looking it into buying one and just physically disconnecting the wifi. My question is not so much how to do that. I found a video from just a couple years ago and it looks like a discrete module that's fairly trivial to disconnect. My question is, will the damn thing still work if it's not allowed to constantly phone home? Obviously, I do not give a shit about the "smart" features. I just want it to wash my clothes.

I've heard speed queen is a good brand because they make commercial units too. I would avoid LG like the plague for a lot of reasons even beyond the privacy angle. Also just because the 2021 model had a discreet wifi card and worked with it unplugged doesn't mean the 2024 model does.

I use Artix OpenRC edition

You're gonna want to get rid of the backdoors that exist on modern cpus

This guy fucks.

 

[IdiotPlusPlus]

I'll start this thread with my most immediate concern. You can not buy a television set without a Wi-Fi card inside of it anymore.

One option depending on size you want is to buy a pc monitor, Phillips does a 40" 4k and only has monitor inputs from memory, if you need fta TV set top box tuners are cheap, otherwise can slap a usb TV tuner into a sff pc setup as a media centre and go that route.

NEC still makes 'digital signage displays' that are pricy and heavy but will last for ages(rated for being on for 18 hours a day for like 3 years lol)

Avoid Samsung like the plague, even their corporate models still try to get you to hook up WiFi, but at least can be easily disabled.

 

[Taser Confetti]

I gave up and just decided to never connect mine to Wifi. Honestly I just decided if it decided to find an unsecured Wifi network to connect since I've never logged into any apps it has there's nothing interesting for it to collect and upload.

I treat the TV as if it were dumb and all activities are piped through the Xbox. It'd be nice if someone manufactured TV's with some vanilla Android OS but then again I wouldn't want to deal with Google Play/Amazon app stores.

 

[IdiotPlusPlus]

I gave up and just decided to never connect mine to Wifi. Honestly I just decided if it decided to find an unsecured Wifi network to connect since I've never logged into any apps it has there's nothing interesting for it to collect and upload.

I treat the TV as if it were dumb and all activities are piped through the Xbox. It'd be nice if someone manufactured TV's with some vanilla Android OS but then again I wouldn't want to deal with Google Play/Amazon app stores.

I do the same but run through a Yamaha app for 5.1 and multi input switching, I use a Nvidia shield for Kodi atm because I got it cheap but otherwise recommend a Rpi or cheap low power sff(ex corpo devices are good for this) with a us Rf or usb IR remote.

I wouldn't mind a ASOP or whatever blank non-google Android TV box but haven't found one I could reflash yet to remove the chinky ddos botnet/ spyware they put on then at the factory usually by accident lol

 

[Grub]

Do not ever buy a smart thermostat. All of them have backdoors allowing them to be remotely controlled by governments. The Google ones are completely fucked and will lie to you about the temperature and pretty much take control of your HVAC system and do whatever the fuck its 'smartness' decides it should do whether you like it or not. Also, your HVAC installer will hate you and laugh and call you retarded behind your back if you make them install one of those fucking things for you.

I'm even kind of leery about the Honeywell wifi thermostats. You get pretty much total control over everything, but they're wifi enabled and Honeywell is actually a massive and pretty evil company that really gives zero fucks and would definitely have no qualms about putting backdoors into their products.

The problem is with modern HVAC systems, most dumb thermostats don't have a common ground and may not have an o/b terminal for heatpumps which most new equipment needs. If you can get your hands on an older high end digital thermostat from before wifi enabled shit became common that's what I'd recommend.

There's already been too much fuckedy government overreach into people's thermostats and I'm sure it'll only get worse the more people that get conned into getting them.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-program-smart-thermostat-summer-temperature-control-1.6854355

https://www.resources.org/on-the-issues/bidens-green-procurement-executive-order-smart-thermostats-and-more/

https://www.wired.com/story/why-utilities-want-to-sometimes-control-your-smart-thermostat/

https://www.businessinsider.com/texas-energy-companies-remotely-raised-smart-thermostats-temperatures-2021-6?op=1

https://electrek.co/2022/11/08/japan-control-ac-power-shortages/

 

[IdiotPlusPlus]

Tbh I'm surprised there's no option that's just esp32, a few relays, and a temp/humidity module in a case off tindie or something, there is a bunch of premade temp/humidity esp32 'plant monitors' for sale, you'd think thermostat would be an easy next step lol

 

[Captain Wetbeard]

For a decent screen without the spyware bullshit I'd recommend a large computer monitor since the picture quality tends to be higher anyway, but even that market is starting to get smart bullshit pushed into it.

 

[CHARizard]

If you all want a non smart TV, look up digital signage TVs or commercial displays. Its like those ones used in Mcdonalds as the menu above the cashiers.

https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV/U557CV-UMRB-55-4K-UHD-TV-product1428category1category73.html

Stuff like this should work. You can also check ebay as well.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Sceptre-43-Class-1080P-FHD-LED-TV-X435BV-F/698772381?athbdg=L1103

 

[ScatmansWorld]

https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV/U557CV-UMRB-55-4K-UHD-TV-product1428category1category73.html

I just want to point out this specific model doesn't seem to support HDCP (extremely unfortunate acronym I know), which means it won't work for playing Blu-Rays if that's important to you. There's another TV model that seems to have the exact same specs and price but with HDCP 2.2 support.

https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV/U550CV-UMRD-55-4K-UHD-TV-product1174category1category73.html

Of course, there's a couple of easy ways to bypass the need for copy protection encryption anyways. Do whatever you feel is right.

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

I've heard speed queen is a good brand because they make commercial units too. I would avoid LG like the plague for a lot of reasons even beyond the privacy angle. Also just because the 2021 model had a discreet wifi card and worked with it unplugged doesn't mean the 2024 model does.

Yeah, the problem is there's so many different models I'm having trouble figuring anything out on ANY manufacturer. If I could find a teardown for a current model that would be okay. Or if I could return it if I can't disconnect the wifi. But even then, who knows which parts just stop working if it can't phone home?

I MAY go fully mechanical, but they're pretty expensive. Electronic with no wifi would be fine I guess.

 

[tehpope]

For a smart tv, if it requires you to connect it to internet initially, just use your phone's hot spot function. If you're not using a dumb phone.
I haven't tried this out, but it might be worth looking into to remove bloat from your tv.

https://adbappcontrol.com/en/

I would use a pc or sbc for media playback. Kodi is great and works well. Jellyfin is great too if you want a plex like experience.

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

IoT shit will often connect to open networks automatically if it doesn't have internet access so if you've got a guest network it's already jover. They will also often hard code their DNS servers and do other skeevy shit to try and get around network security you've setup. IMO you need to either buy something with no network connectivity or physically destroy the chip.

Another solution is to wrap the TV in tinfoil since that will block any signals from leaving or arriving to the TV.

 

[Grim_Autismo]

I have to buy a new washer and dryer fairly soon. LG seems to be the best reviewed. However, they only sell smart appliances. I'm looking it into buying one and just physically disconnecting the wifi. My question is not so much how to do that. I found a video from just a couple years ago and it looks like a discrete module that's fairly trivial to disconnect. My question is, will the damn thing still work if it's not allowed to constantly phone home? Obviously, I do not give a shit about the "smart" features. I just want it to wash my clothes.

You can still get Whirlpool "dumb" washers and dryers that will work for years. If you don't care about having the latest and greatest in your washer/dryer, you can buy them secondhand from a used appliance place; they'll also come fix it when it breaks. Unlike buying it new, they'll just laugh at you on the phone and tell you to buy a new one or hire one of the appliance stores to fix it for you anyway. Don't trust LG Electronics unless it's their top-shelf line; they won't honor their service contracts. Hipoint Appliances are also a good brand that will last you a long time and generally has zero smart shit inside them, they sell those to property management orgs, and they can take a pounding.

Building a PC and connecting it to a TV is honestly the best way to go, but make sure you come equipped with a variety of cords to try out. I had issues with mine; a USB-C to HDMI connector, for example, only allowed my monitor to run at 30 to 43hz and 1080i, while a regular HDMI cable allowed me to run it at UHD above 60hz with greatly improved framerates (you'll notice 30fps when you're watching TV on a big screen, it's painful!)

Another thing that you guys should keep an eye on is smart exercise machines. Not just from a privacy perspective (it's important, to be sure), but just because the tablets are a MAJOR point of failure, the business model is terrible, and if they go under, your machine may stop working.

A lot of IOT devices can also be disconnected once they enter your home. The system may require a piece of Wi-Fi hardware to be connected, but if you can stop or remove a networking/QA service from running altogether, you can stop it from dialing home. No Starch Press' Practical IoT Hacking book is a really great resource for getting started with exploring these devices and could help anyone who's interested in such things.

 

[SCV]

Yeah, the problem is there's so many different models I'm having trouble figuring anything out on ANY manufacturer. If I could find a teardown for a current model that would be okay. Or if I could return it if I can't disconnect the wifi. But even then, who knows which parts just stop working if it can't phone home?

I MAY go fully mechanical, but they're pretty expensive. Electronic with no wifi would be fine I guess.

idk what your situation is but if I were buying a washing machine, I would go to some sketch used appliance store, get a 90's-00's basic model fully expecting it to be fucked. Then when / if it breaks fix it myself with cheap replacement parts indefinitely. I had the pump in my washing machine break a while back and the whole thing assembly was sub-$20 and took like 30 minutes to install with no prior experience.

Another solution is to wrap the TV in tinfoil since that will block any signals from leaving or arriving to the TV.

While this would work you would need to completely cover the entire thing which might obstruct the picture a bit. Of course, you could do the entire room...

 

[Adolf Kitler]

I highly recommend purchasing an old second-hand flat TV (those from the late 2000s to early 2010s without smart TV). They are cheap AF, have good image quality, have many ports to connect multiple devices, and are very robust, which means that they will last much longer than a modern television. If you want to use streaming services, you can try buying one of those cheap HDMI sticks that they sell on Amazon or, in my case, a PS4 or another modern game console.

As an extra, you can also use a DVD/Blu-ray player to watch movies and series. There is nothing better than having your own collection of media that will never be taken out of your hands because of a stupid subscription.

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

Seeking to revive this topic. I need a new TV soon. I have absolutely no choice. Are there any that at least don't include a camera and microphone right in the unit, and maybe I can replace the remote with a non-Alexa one?