Programming thread

[Zeftax]

i think a good idea is to start with python to just learn the process of problem solving and then switch to c to learn what the fuck the computer is actually doing

Maybe for some people. I personally find python really unintuitive and unreadable. But that's just my preference, I definitely recommend KissMyTaint to try it and see if he likes it.

 

[DumbDude43]

Hey all, recently I started out my “journey” in programming and I’m in the middle of learning HTML to familiarize myself. I was told to start there but once I’m done what should I move onto afterwards?

start with x64 assembly, then learn haskell, then you are finally ready to learn rust and join the cult community

 

[ADHD Mate]

haskell

It's a good beginner choice btw.
As always I recommend Graham Hutton course.

 

[Belisarius Cawl]

Racket is probably good but I want to learn Scheme, not someone's interpretation of a superior Scheme.

I'm surprised no one else chimed in here. What is now Racket started as just Scheme, but it has since become the basis for implementing quite a few different languages. Among them is R6RS, which is much closer to what you might consider a "pure" Scheme:

https://docs.racket-lang.org/r6rs/

 

[Creative Username]

Hey all, recently I started out my “journey” in programming and I’m in the middle of learning HTML to familiarize myself. I was told to start there but once I’m done what should I move onto afterwards?

install guile scheme and then work through the little schemer
or download godot and make a game with it

Lisp / Guile Scheme >>>>>>>>> C > Python > JS

actually js>>>python since it's more scheme-like
change my mind

take: python is fucking dogshit and it's not even a very good beginner language imo
yes, i do want to cause a fight

i think a good idea is to start with python to just learn the process of problem solving and then switch to c to learn what the fuck the computer is actually doing

very good advice except the python part

Maybe for some people. I personally find python really unintuitive and unreadable. But that's just my preference, I definitely recommend KissMyTaint to try it and see if he likes it.

absolutely perfect advice, a good programmer will look at every programming language under the sun before determining which one they like the best (depends on the programmer)

I'm surprised no one else chimed in here. What is now Racket started as just Scheme, but it has since become the basis for implementing quite a few different languages. Among them is R6RS, which is much closer to what you might consider a "pure" Scheme:

https://docs.racket-lang.org/r6rs/

racket also has an r7rs mode
r7rs is a pretty nice standard and when the large language is finished i hope that scheme will heal that painful wound that has been around for more than a decade

 

[Private Tag Reporter]

all languages are shit, just pick one and wade through the shit until you git gud.

i like lua because it's as simple a language can get before becoming a lisp, the downside is it's shit for doing anything else but games because its ecosystem is nonexistent

 

[Creative Username]

all languages are shit

except lisps

its ecosystem is nonexistent

lua completely counts as a lisp imo
it's simple, powerful, and nobody uses it because it has 0 libraries; this is what makes a lisp

 

[Belisarius Cawl]

Realistically a beginner should use a language with both Algol/Pascal-like syntax (that includes Python) and GC

 

[Creative Username]

Realistically a beginner should use a language with both Algol/Pascal-like syntax (that includes Python) and GC

python isn't exactly algol/pascal syntax with its retarded off-side bullshit
best beginner language: pick one and use it, even fucking BASIC (as long as you don't go thinking GOTO is the only way to structure programs)

 

[Rango Dango]

atp just make the newfags learn APL or something

 

[Belisarius Cawl]

I really was serious though. If we give out advice based on what we like best rather than what makes the most didactic sense, it will result in frustration and discouragement for the new coders here. Analogy: I like using Vim (and more recently Neovim and now Emacs) but if I saw that someone was getting started with Python I would not recommend any form of Vim or Emacs but instead steer them towards PyCharm or even Sublime and Notepad++ because I know that "what I like to use" and "what will work best for a neophyte" are not the same thing.

 

[Creative Username]

I really was serious though. If we give out advice based on what we like best rather than what makes the most didactic sense, it will result in frustration and discouragement for the new coders here. Analogy: I like using Vim (and more recently Neovim and now Emacs) but if I saw that someone was getting started with Python I would not recommend any form of Vim or Emacs but instead steer them towards PyCharm or even Sublime and Notepad++ because I know that "what I like to use" and "what will work best for a neophyte" are not the same thing.

i don't really agree with python as a teaching language
it's basically perl with a superiority complex and has a bunch of weird shit that you don't see that often in other languages

i think he should do some learning by putting <script> tags in his html tbh
hooking a function up to the dom and making it do things is a great introduction to higher-order functions
just need to avoid gay brainrot like async and await "keywords" (copes for not having delimited continuations so you can make them as functions instead)

 

[Anti Snigger]

i don't really agree with python as a teaching language
it's basically perl with a superiority complex and has a bunch of weird shit that you don't see that often in other languages

i think he should do some learning by putting <script> tags in his html tbh
hooking a function up to the dom and making it do things is a great introduction to higher-order functions
just need to avoid gay brainrot like async and await "keywords" (copes for not having delimited continuations so you can make them as functions instead)

>recommending javascript
Actual islamic content

 

[Belisarius Cawl]

it's basically perl with a superiority complex and has a bunch of weird shit that you don't see that often in other languages

I've never seen anyone liken Python to Perl like that before

i think he should do some learning by putting <script> tags in his html tbh

Ideally in the form of <script src="my-custom-javascript.js"></script> to separate concerns and get decent syntax highlighting and other language support

hooking a function up to the dom and making it do things is a great introduction to higher-order function

Agreed. I haven't written a lot of JS and I don't know that I would want to but I did it in the following stages:

1. Pure JavaScript (my first book was Head First JavaScript which has some actually serious pedagogy behind the graphics-heavy, goofy exterior)
2. JavaScript + jQuery
3. Newer ECMAScript standards
4. Node, React etc.

That's how I do most everything in tech. My goal is typically to be the opposite of whatever this is (though I will freely admit that my math background for this type of thing leaves certain things to be desired):

 

[Private Tag Reporter]

Learning programming and learning to do things with programming are like two opposite sides lf the spectrum. So much of what the real answer is lies in what you're learning for, and until guy tells us we may as well recommend punch cards for all it matters.

 

[Creative Username]

>recommending javascript
Actual islamic content

it's actually not that bad until you write something longer than 600 lines
or until you notice certain things about the type coercion "features"
if you write pure javascript while ignoring all of the extremely retarded brainrot bullshit you will get to enjoy a small functional programming language where you write nice event-driven programs using almost nothing but simple higher-order functions

I've never seen anyone liken Python to Perl like that before

that's what python is though: seething perl wojak wearing a mask with the smug face
it's not elegant, it's not simple, it's not inherently powerful, it's just a mediocre scripting language twisted by metaclasses and annotation bullshit into a crude mockery of nature's perfection
it will never be a lisp
at least perl niggers know that perl is an unholy abomination of a language mostly valued for its extensive library collection over any beauty it has as a programming language itself

Learning programming and learning to do things with programming are like two opposite sides lf the spectrum. So much of what the real answer is lies in what you're learning for, and until guy tells us we may as well recommend punch cards for all it matters.

a good way to exercise your programming abilities is to run into some tedious bullshit and then automate it using the power of guile scheme and the amazing system* procedure

 

[Belisarius Cawl]

if you write pure javascript while ignoring all of the extremely retarded brainrot bullshit you will get to enjoy a small functional programming language where you write nice event-driven programs using almost nothing but simple higher-order functions

that's what python is though: seething perl wojak wearing a mask with the smug face
it's not elegant, it's not simple, it's not inherently powerful, it's just a mediocre scripting language twisted by metaclasses and annotation bullshit into a crude mockery of nature's perfection
it will never be a lisp

R is easily more of a Lisp than Python is and it's also ugly and janky as hell. The main thing it has going for it is the breadth and quality of third-party code which minimizes contact with the language itself. "Being a Lisp" is not a trump card. Also all of the data science libraries I've seen for any form of Scheme or Common Lisp are pretty much a joke compared to what Python has. A lot of things that would be easily be possible for a new(ish) user of Python would become very difficult if attempted in Guile for example.

 

[Anti Snigger]

View attachment 7887218

R is easily more of a Lisp than Python is and it's also ugly and janky as hell. The main thing it has going for it is the breadth and quality of third-party code which minimizes contact with the language itself. "Being a Lisp" is not a trump card. Also all of the data science libraries I've seen for any form of Scheme or Common Lisp are pretty much a joke compared to what Python has. A lot of things that would be easily be possible for a new(ish) user of Python would become very difficult if attempted in Guile for example.

Torch is so fucking good, and once you get used to the data science stuff, Jupyter notebooks are incredibly useful. I did a whole semester of labs using Jupyter and I was very efficient

 

[Creative Username]

that's exactly what i'm saying

R is easily more of a Lisp than Python is and it's also ugly and janky as hell. The main thing it has going for it is the breadth and quality of third-party code which minimizes contact with the language itself.

oh yeah did you know perl is a lisp too
python is not even a lisp, maybe it's a bit of a smalltalk or something (idk smalltalk) but it's certainly not a lisp
i judge languages on how lisp they are and python is like a C- on that scale, around stuff like java and c++
and yes i seriously think that perl is a less crippled language than python

most of the python code i have had the misfortune of seeing just strings together other tools in the most imperative way possible and is completely lacking in DIVINE INTELLECT
there are probably some nice libraries to let you have nice things but then you will be using them from FUCKING PYTHON
not even saying that it isn't useful, because there are indeed many libraries. but i file it into a niche along with bash called "absolutely niggerlicious languages that have a lot of pre-packaged tools"

Also all of the data science libraries I've seen for any form of Scheme or Common Lisp are pretty much a joke compared to what Python has. A lot of things that would be easily be possible for a new(ish) user of Python would become very difficult if attempted in Guile for example.

maybe op doesn't want to do data science, there are other things to do on computers than just crunch numbers
and if all the cad shit written in fortran is anything to go by, you don't really need an exceptionally good language to crunch a bunch of numbers

 

[Anti Snigger]

maybe op doesn't want to do data science, there are other things to do on computers than just crunch numbers
and if all the cad shit written in fortran is anything to go by, you don't really need an exceptionally good language to crunch a bunch of numbers

This is a genuinely bizarre thing to say