ranting about video game remakes

[skykiii]

Let me compare here.

Back in the day, Ted Turner went and started colorizing a bunch of black-and-white movies.. and people bitched. They bitched because this was "destroying their artistic integrity" or something. To be honest, I don't really know what the deal was.

Because the funny thing is that film colorization doesn't really change the actual movie, it just makes it in color. Which yeah for some makes a difference (Wizard of Oz would lose something if the Kansas sequences were in color), but for many I didn't see that much of a problem.

Fast forward a few years, to the Star Wars Special Editions, which fans still bitch about to this day. And here, I do understand the issues--the changes make these versions objectively worse, and Disney still holds to Lucas' retarded policy of burying the original theatrical cuts.

And I said in another topic, if you ever so much as suggested someone would do a re-write of Chronicles of Narnia that removed the Christian elements, people would bitch... in fact I recall this being a thing that almost happened, and people did indeed bitch. (Now if only people could get them to publish the books in the correct order again...)

....... My point being, WHY ARE GAMERS SUCH SHEEP ABOUT THIS?

Gamers are always praising remakes. I think the only one I've even seen people have slight questions about is Silent Hill 2. Every other one? Gets a pass, would recommend.

And especially here on KF, I don't get it.

Like, whenever a youtuber watches an old movie and bitches about an old movie having "outdated" elements, the culture here is usually to want to slap the fucker upside the head and force him to learn about older times rather than having everything changed to cater to his safe zone. Yet here we are, saying "so-and-so old game is dated and offends my sense of how games should be, they should do a remake that makes it play just like these other games!"

Resident Evil 2 really is a good point here, as my biggest gripe with it is that it loses what made the original game unique in favor of turning it into a generic, forgettable over-the-shoulder horror game precisely like millions before it... as well as dashing a layer of grit and edge over everything like 90s comic books used to do (when the entire appeal of the Resident Evil series was how campy and goofy it was).

I just don't see how something like that is okay, but changing the script of TTYD to be more trans-inclusive is bad.... okay, back up a bit: I get why we react more to the latter, but the fact is, the minute you were okay with changing old games and making them "more modern," you directly enabled this shit.

The fact is, people, "modernization" is an apple with many worms... and you don't get to pick and choose your worms or their starting position on the maps, which is precisely why you've had several annoying losses when someone happened to destroy your thin starting ledge and send George right into the water, making him an Ex-Worm.

What I'm saying is, the Woke worm also knows how to summon airstrikes.

Currently I see people excited for Metal Gear Solid Delta, a remake of Snake Eater. To which I just have to quote Otacon:

"Don't forget the Deep family's fish."

 

[Gog & Magog]

I dislike outdated feature in old games that waste my time. Example: the door loading screens in the older RE games suck. Do they build mood? Sure. The first few times. After that its nothing but a waste of time.

 

[M3xus]

I saw the point of remakes twenty years ago when people were remaking older games with today's tech (like converting Spy Hunter from a top-down road shooter to a full-fledged third-person driving game, or making the NES's Rygar into a full-fledged 3D action-adventure title). But nowadays they just feel like bloated nonsense and the "look what we can do now!" factor has lost its charm. RE1 Remake feels like a good example of this. Yes, it plays better, but a lot of puzzles gained extra steps that were probably put in to trip up veterans, but in practice felt more like they were put in to pad playtime.

Now, remastering old PC titles to run on today's hardware I'm mostly okay with. Hardware changes and not everyone's savvy enough to run a VM or DOSBox.

 

[skykiii]

I dislike outdated feature in old games that waste my time. Example: the door loading screens in the older RE games suck. Do they build mood? Sure. The first few times. After that its nothing but a waste of time.

I get where you're coming from, but like.... the minute its okay to remove something for being annoying, where does the buck stop?

Also love them or hate them, the door transitions actually figure into some of the gameplay at some point--like that one time in RE2 where it catches you off-guard by revealing zombies on the other side of the door who immediately burst into the room. You couldn't get rid of the doors without also affecting moments like this. I do recall hearing there was a version that made it so you could skip the door transitions by pressing a button, at least.

I saw the point of remakes twenty years ago when people were remaking older games with today's tech (like converting Spy Hunter from a top-down road shooter to a full-fledged third-person driving game, or making the NES's Rygar into a full-fledged 3D action-adventure title).

One thing I liked about these is that a lot of them actually included the original version, usually as an unlockable. They were meant to exist alongside the original, not be an outright replacement. That's something that's changed with modern remakes, whose sole reason for existence is to rewrite history.

Now, remastering old PC titles to run on today's hardware I'm mostly okay with. Hardware changes and not everyone's savvy enough to run a VM or DOSBox.

I agree here. This is more along the lines of just being a compatibility patch.

The only remakes that bug me are the ones that are whole new games whose intent is to memory-hole the original.

 

[Dagoth AMOGUS]

What amazes me about some games like WoW vanilla classic and Dark Souls remastered is that gamers want the original game, warts and all. Even with the exploits and glitches and annoying features.

If that isn’t proof you made a fantastic game that people treasure in their memory I don’t know what is.

 

[I'm Retarded?]

I like both the classic RE games and the RE remakes. I think the original RE2, which I played shitloads of when I was younger, has plenty of cool ideas that are particular to its era. I think the RE2 remake is a cool reinterpretation of the classic game, also. I hold these two opinions simultaneously in each hand. one does not replace the other. RE2 1998 and RE2 2019 are very different experiences enough to where they don't occupy the same cultural space in my mind, regardless of the fact that they share a name. I think that there's no reason why media can't be reinterpreted as time goes on, the issue is that most "remakes" are simply driven by shallow profiteering rather than a genuine artistic desire to revisit a particular work with the perspective of a different era. but in the case that the remake isn't just a shallow cash grab, I say bring them on. FF7 Remake is one of those for me; FF7 was my first FF game and remains special for me as a result. however, I also liked FF7 Remake, although it changes plenty from the PSX version. it's not trying to be the same game, and that's fine. the PSX version still exists. I replayed it after the first time I finished Remake.

What amazes me about some games like WoW vanilla classic and Dark Souls remastered is that gamers want the original game, warts and all. Even with the exploits and glitches and annoying features.

If that isn’t proof you made a fantastic game that people treasure in their memory I don’t know what is.

I think this has more to do with people trying to put everything back in the box to re-experience the joy of opening it for the first time. and, especially with WoW, there's also an element of trying to reconnect with an earlier, nostalgic era. people want the warts not because the game would be worse without them, but for feelings like "haha I remember how much this used to piss me off" and such. "I remember doing this on my first character". "I briefly remember what it felt like to be 14 again".

 

[Metallic Blood]

This thread is just perfect for me! Usually I don't complain about game remakes, because if it's a remake of a fun game, and fun game is still fun, then I really can't feel overly gloomy about it,

But when I start being overly critical and sperg about things: The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth repulses me as a remake.

In a game with an improved gameplay, fun new items and """amazing""" new paths, I still can't get over how they assassinated the asthetical charm of the original game, The change from "crude and rough" Flash animation artstyle to "clean and smooth" Pixel Art just destroyed all of its charm and it's not even funny. All of the mysterious and estoic atmosphere was gone.

Like, yeah, you still shoot poop and monsters without eyeballs with your tears, and your objective still is to kill your own mother and then yourself(?), but with the new design style, it felt like I was playing a generic arcade game instead of something twisted of the human imagination.

Spoiler: Example of Wrath of the Lamb vs Rebirth

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Not the best images, but the best images I could get.

And even if you think I'm too autistic to care about this like the black and white movie guys like OP mentioned, nothing will save from the dogwater soundtrack that was the base Rebirth OST.

Just compare the Basement Theme from the original and the Basement Theme from Rebirth and see how much of a downgrade it is. This isn't even just one song, you can go on and compare every song and 99% of the time, the original game will win (all hail Danny Baranowsky)

Don't get me wrong, I think Rebirth overall is a good game, the changes in gameplay make the original kinda obslote, and the game got a bit better in the aesthetic department as the DLCs came in (specially Repentance... even though that DLC is literally a fanmod so eh), but nothing will surpass the original atmosphere of the base + Wrath of the Lamb game.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

The difference is good remasters make objective improvements, whereas the examples you provided are making arbitrary changes.

Adding a save feature to a game that didn't have one or giving it a stable framerate is fine. You wouldn't complain about a book fixing a typo or using a better font, or shouldn't at least. If you really like that typo or choice of font you have the original.

The real problem is when significant changes occur. Final Fantasy X HD is considered worse for altering music and character models, understandably so, especially for the models. I think the best way to handle game remasters is to make every change optional. Street Fighter 2 HD did that, you want the new graphics but not the new music? You can do that, or vice versa, plus you can use the gameplay updates or play with the original settings.

 

[Road Work Ahead]

My main issue with most remakes is that they're unnecessary. Final Fantasy 7 doesn't need remaking because the original still holds up and is good.

I wouldn't mind remakes of games that had good ideas, but whose execution left much to be desired. An example I played recently was Suikoden 4. The game isn't great, but I liked the naval theme and would like to see what the game could've been if the devs would have been more competent.

 

[Tanuki Mixed Nuts]

Some remakes are fucking amazing, and others are either whatever, or just outright worse. It purely depends on who's doing the project. Silent Hill 2 remake or the MGS3 remake might end up good, but given it's Konami post Kojima, I doubt it.

Also the other aspect, is that gaming has become a much larger market as time has gone on, and remakes aim to double dip, by selling previous hits to new AND old players. I very much doubt the majority of people who played Resident Evil 2's remake played the original, or would even enjoy the original. Both the remake and and the original are in my top 10 games, but for very different reasons. Meanwhile the RE3 original kinda just feels like a sort of RE2 expansion, but not as good, and then the remake has that same flaw. Shows that while you can attempt a double dip, sometimes the original just isn't all that interesting of a game to remake outside of the idea of "we did 2, so now lets do 3".

All this said, these companies just need to put the old PC ports of their games on GOG. Sure I can emulate the PSX or whatever, but its the idea that they seem to ignore this option that is bothersome.

RE2 1998 and RE2 2019 are very different experiences enough to where they don't occupy the same cultural space in my mind,

This actually brings up a similarity to music that game remakes have. A lot of the time changing the genre of a cover/remake of a song will make me less likely to be offput by the changes. Taking a a slow song and making it a swing song can be bad, but its different enough that it doesn't sort of mesh with the original in your mind if it is actually bad.

What amazes me about some games like WoW vanilla classic and Dark Souls remastered is that gamers want the original game, warts and all. Even with the exploits and glitches and annoying features.

If that isn’t proof you made a fantastic game that people treasure in their memory I don’t know what is.

I personally have an extreme hatred towards Dark Souls Remastered because of how shit it actually is. These people delisted the cheap original (that they never bothered patching resolution options or anything into), charge at least double of the Prepare to Die Edition. Then fucked up the lighting and some of the animations and never bothered fixing them.

 

[Weltraumfürst]

I think you're confusing remakes and remasters a bit, m8. Ted Turner colorizing old films and George Lucas fucking with Star Wars would fall in that category.

Now, remakes in my opinion are only a problem when they outright try to replace the original game, and I can't think of a single one that does that. Even when you're talking remasters, the only case I can think of is WC3 reforged, where you officially cannot buy the original game anymore. Maybe the GTA remasters, I'm not sure.

 

[WTBOnlineFather]

Maybe the GTA remasters, I'm not sure.

Yep, those are another example of a demake. Fucked up physics, fucked up models and animations, fucked up radios/soundtracks, and the originals aren't on sale anymore.

 

[⋖ cørdion ⋗]

The Sony remaster ports are a masterclass. I always buy them when they dip under €35 out of principle alone.

Then you got "hey uhh do we still have the source code?" slop like Shadow Man or whatever it was called.

Then actual goated kino remasters like Tomb Raider, Spyro and the Crash trilogy.

Ultimately I'd rather gamble on a remaster than "This NEW IP with a colored girl who uses magic to kill white men!". It's not about comfort, it's about new material not measuring up against even your drunken uncle's retelling of an old story

 

[Asian tech support]

@Adidas Queen this is your time to shine.

I said it before and I'll say it again: the only remake I've enjoyed recently has been the System Shock remake.

I personally have an extreme hatred towards Dark Souls Remastered because of how shit it actually is. These people delisted the cheap original (that they never bothered patching resolution options or anything into), charge at least double of the Prepare to Die Edition. Then fucked up the lighting and some of the animations and never bothered fixing them.

Check out the re-remastered mod. It didn't fix everything but the guy did a good job.

 

[Mike Matei's Penis]

Starcraft Remastered and Warcraft 3 Reforged are exactly how to and how not to do a remake of an old classic game.

 

[CreamyHerman’s]

I don't really see a issue with remakes, provided that they make some form of improvement over the original game. Black Mesa is a really solid remake imo, minus some odd design choices with On a Rail. They did a really good job revamping the Xen levels as well, minus interloper. The System Shock remake is really good too, and that took years to come out. The only remake I can call a trashfire in recent memory is XIII, other than that most of them are solid. Hell, if Capcom can unfuck RE6 and make it work I would buy it on a discount.

 

[TheRaptorJesus]

The problem with remakes is changing shit for "modern audiences".

 

[Weltraumfürst]

I think, same with film, remakes are best when they put a different spin on the original or make improvements where the original was lacking. Black Mesa is a good example in that regard. Even though each Xen level goes on for too long and overstays its welcome, the updates are downright amazing. XIII is a bad remake because it's just the same game, but worse.

 

[Duiker]

The Remake of Riven, the Sequel to Myst is coming out today and I am full of dread. Apparently there had been two major updates done to the demo after the demo came out, which concerns me. Demos should be so polished that you don't need to add large patches to them.

 

[I'm Retarded?]

Starcraft Remastered and Warcraft 3 Reforged are exactly how to and how not to do a remake of an old classic game.

the Diablo 2 remaster is excellent too. I haven't played the WC3 remaster, but I hear it has the same sort of deal where you can swap between the old and new graphics. I also understand they made some balance changes, maybe that's a big part of the cringe, although IMO, the changes they made to Diablo 2 (new runewords, resistance penetration charms, etc) all definitely work in the game's favor.