Representation in the media

[RockVolnutt]

Is there any reasonable thoughts behind the idea of media being changed to be more "inclusive"? Have people lost sight of what they were asking for?


I ask because I've seen it escalated to the point of seeing people use arguments of "Batman needs to a black woman or my non-existent daughter will never develop self-esteem and will likely lose all ambitious and become a stripper". It's surreal to see people claim that someone's self-worth should come from cartoon characters sharing superficial traits with them. I would hope I'm strawmanning here.

 

[RG 448]

I would hope I'm strawmanning here.

You’re not. Representation means we all have to take for granted that humans with different skin colors or sexual orientations can never relate to each other on any level.

 

[Diesel Boogaloo]

I ask because I've seen it escalated to the point of seeing people use arguments of "Batman needs to a black woman or my non-existent daughter will never develop self-esteem and will likely lose all ambitious and become a stripper".

 

[Dooly Tilly]

God, Jesus and Satan don't exist... eom.

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

That moment when you've realized that representation is just a rebranding of tokenism.

 

[From The Uncanny Valley]

That moment when you've realized that representation is just a rebranding of tokenism.

But much less funny.

 

[Bassomatic]

I find it to be a clear act of laziness as well as takes away from true and honest minorities who were or are cool in fiction. Let's take Star Trek's Uhurha, she was cool as fuck and happened to be a black woman. Compared to black spiderman, who's just people reeeeing instead of making their own superhero or asking to have one made (black pather is interesting and a fun personification of MAD at times, he was mixed up in some legit cold war shit) they just cry about it and demand it changed, then people don't like it because it's lazy and boring and then cry racism.

So really it's just a way to be lazy and bad at what you do and protect your own failing while ruining things for other people.

Also for these people who demand this stuff, you know it never pops up in books? Speakers at a Philosophy group? It's basic bitch entertainment. For example, that movie that was just out the dark tower, based on a series. A few times in the series they pretty clearly make the hero known to be white. They put a black man in the movie (who happened to do quite well and an actor I like but movie was pretty bad) but you don't see these people saying anything about the book? Why. Niggers are lazy and don't read. Honestly, that's why this happens to comics, video games and pop culture shit.

When a Cherokee complains their just aren't enough of them show in the fencing population or lesbian rubgy teams... then maybe I'll give a fuck.

 

[Fox]

I think it's really good to represent experiences rather than different skin colours and orientations. I hate the "White middle class kid with divorced parents" protagonist because it's overused and lazy. I want to see the world from someone else's perspective or see someone with similar circumstances to me going on an adventure.
Sadly, people's idea of "inclusivity" and "representation" is very shallow and adds nothing to the experience, it's like going through a checklist...
"This happens to me because I'm black." Check.
"I am bi I love both sexes I go on bi dates in bi relationships." Check.
"I am Muslim I pray some hate me because I pray." Check.
"I have anxiety I do this because anxiety hey look medication and appointment I do treatment." Check.
It distracts from the story and adds nothing of value to the character.
I just finished playing Hellblade recently and I think it's a good example of representation, it tells a good story and gives you something to think about even after you finish the game, helps you see the world the way a minority sees it.
I don't know, I'm rambling. I hope you got my point though. We need more representation of experiences rather than shallow portrayals of minority groups summed up in a sentence or two.

 

[Assorted Nuts]

I think it is both shallow and narcissistic for someone to insist they "need" characters who are just like them in the most superficial ways possible.

 

[El Porko Fako]

For some people, I really think it's a self insertion thing. People want to more easily self insert themselves into stories as characters they enjoy, and they want to resonate more with a character than they already do. Probably the best example I can present that can support my opinion is Brianna Wu's dumb article about Samus Aran being trans. Wu always tries (and miserably fails) to present herself as this techie, science fiction nerd tough gal persona. Samus Aran is one of the most iconic female leads in video game history (and in a science fiction type title no less), so what better way for Wu to show the world and the readers of this article that she is just like Samus by writing an article about Samus being a trans woman. If someone wants to play pretend and imagine they're Batman, fine I guess, but demanding drastic changes to established characters and fiction just because they want the character to be more like them is incredibly autistic and childish.

I personally don't care if a writer wants the protagonist of their story is a fat femme, handicapped woman of color. All I ask is to give the character some actual depth and make them engaging. The problem with most of these people who want more diverse representation in fiction is that they believe that sexuality, gender, and race are what solely make a good character, and they don't care beyond the surface of these basic traits.

 

[Rand /pol/]

It also sucks because it can turn good ideas into just another excuse for tokenism, an example of this would be how Marvel had a new version of the Hulk "Amadeus Cho" which had a good idea behind it but it's kind of hard to look at it anything but just another case of "turning a White character into a non white."

 

[Fandom Trash]

Its the same shit that you see in Tumblr. People who feel the need to add all these random mental illness and sexuality onto their ocs.

Like they tell everyone , "hey im writing a kickass story of a demisexual trans girl who also happens to have bpd, etc!!"

And you just like, why is this important? Sure its nice to have representation, but if all the characters act the same way then there really is no need to attach all these superficial traits onto them. I just dont get it.

Just write characters how you want to write them, and not because a group of sjws tell you otherwise.

 

[Positron]

People will watch whatever shit served on their plate, find reason to complain, and come back for more. It has been this way since movies and TV were invented.

In other words, the supposed lack of diversity would not hurt business, thus nothing needs to change.

 

[Onions]

I've actually seen little girls start to study for STEM fields partly because they wanted to be like their favorite characters on children's shows. Children are still forming their identities, and ideas of "who is intelligent?" "who is beautiful?" "what do people who look like me do in life?" I don't mind seeing "tokenism" if it helps children see themselves doing productive work or feel good about their appearance.

Adults forcing pandering crap into nerd media is a different issue really.

 

[Kyria the Great]

I believe part of this "diversity" thing stems from that these people are looking for a hero or an idea that they can work towards themselves without realizing that all they need to do is look inside themselves for strength and get better.

Though the reason why "diversity" fails in my book is because the diversity is generally character instead of a character who happens to be black, gay, asian, etc... You can have kickass characters that aren't white, but you have to actually make them folks that aren't shallow.

 

[AnOminous]

It also sucks because it can turn good ideas into just another excuse for tokenism, an example of this would be how Marvel had a new version of the Hulk "Amadeus Cho" which had a good idea behind it but it's kind of hard to look at it anything but just another case of "turning a White character into a non white."
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I don't see what's wrong with this, other than the possible argument that making the weak, pretty beta Bruce Banner an Asian male is actually perpetuating Asian stereotypes. From the very beginning, the Hulk has been about the dichotomy between the meek, unassuming scientist and the physical manifestation of the rage he carries within him.

Imagine if, instead, a hulking crackhead gets hit by radioactivity, and when he gets angry, turns into a guy who pays child support.

 

[Overcast]

The irony in the whole "Let's turn an established character into a *insert non-white/non-male here*" thing is that by doing that, you're making the implication that people who aren't white men are inherently inferior and need to copy said white men in order to have any value as people. Which sorta defeats the purpose of diversity and inclusiveness.

 

[SPARKLETWAT]

There's this show called The Good Doctor where the protag happens to be autistic. The cast is diverse, there's someone who is Hispanic, quite a few black people and some whities mixed in.

Shaun Murphy is a complex autistic character with his own internal motivations, a past and an actual personality that breaks a lot of autism stereotypes. The autistic community should be thrilled to see an autistic protag whose POV is shown on the show, right?

NOPE.

They're bitching that Shaun Murphy is a white man and Freddie Highmore is not autistic IRL. I thought he was and googled him, safe to say I was surprised. I thought "acting" meant a person pretends on camera and a good actor makes the audience believe what they see onscreen is a real person in a real situation feeling real feelings.

You can't fucking please the SJWs who scream about diversity. They move the goalposts every time. Then they get mad at you if you suggest they go take acting classes and be the representative they want to see so bad in media. There is your proof of their laziness and expecting it handed to them on a silver platter without them having to do any real work. Slactivism at its finest.

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

The irony in the whole "Let's turn an established character into a *insert non-white/non-male here*" thing is that by doing that, you're making the implication that people who aren't white men are inherently inferior and need to copy said white men in order to have any value as people. Which sorta defeats the purpose of diversity and inclusiveness.

People love doing this with Disney princesses too, which is also aggravating. There are legitimate and interesting non-European fairy tales that could be adapted; don't just be lazy and make Sleeping Beauty black.

I also dislike when they feel the need to shove every single possible type of person in when that's rarely how it actually works. Educational stuff for kids is often very heavy handed with this, you have the black kid, the Asian kid, the ginger kid, the obligatory wheelchair bound kid, but I could see how it's useful in education. But say in Glee, real high schools aren't like that, and it feels fake.

 

[flock of doves]

for the most part, stupid. i don't want ~inclusivity~ and forced diversity in shows, i want cool ass characters who just happen to be non-white/non-male/non-(include majority here).