Some thoughts on Hinduism - Based purely on discussions with actual Hindus.

[Penis Drager]

Hinduism is about as diverse as Christianity in their level of sectarianism. The Shivrati differ from Brahmans in very much the same way that Catholics differ from the hundreds of Protestant denominations. If you ask them, they'll say there is only one Hinduism but the belief system's variation proves this is not true.
I want to talk about the caste system and how Brahmans interpret reincarnation as opposed to the Shivrati. The core of the religion is different and I will argue that these constitute different sects and even, maybe, a different religion altogether.

The Brahmans tend to believe that the family you are born under is either a reward or punishment resulting from your actions in a past life. It's a very moralistic position in which people born under a certain caste deserve to be there. It's fucked up and I can't think of any other religion which actively encourages contempt for the poor. The higher castes are expected to live a life of luxury as a reward for past deeds because these people are further along in their path to enlightenment.

In contrast: the Shivrati reject the concept of "good" or "bad" karma and believe that every life we live is a lesson to be learned. They accept that bad things happen and that people are responsible. There is no punishment, though. Your life is a lesson insofar as reaching enlightenment has as much to do with knowing what it is to be victimized as it does being the victimizer. Every life you live is a lesson and you are expected to learn it.
Obviously, these lessons don't necessarily carry over to the next life. You're a blank slate when you are born. But your soul has learned a set of lessons which helps to obtain enlightenment. The Aghori (a subsect of the Shivrati) go as far as to reject karma altogether in saying "we have the spirit of the gods within us, how can one corrupt the spirit of a god?"
The Shivrati worship Shiva, the god of destruction. But this is through the lens that all of creation by man requires the destruction of something else. And this is why many Hindus believe an aspect of Shiva is within them. To do "bad" things is expected. But by destruction: A better world is created.

My apologies if this comes off a schizopost. I skipped a lot of what I wanted to bring up in this post, but this is at least something to think about as far as why the Hindu caste system exists and the forces from within that fight against it.

 

[Open Window Maniac]

You forgot that Hinduism's gods tend to have lots of limbs.

 

[Milkis]

@Penis Drager what do you think of the theory that there was no Hinduism until the British imposed a somewhat unifying theory on a vast number of sects and god worships across India, which they couldn't classify under any other religion?

 

[Penis Drager]

@Penis Drager what do you think of the theory that there was no Hinduism until the British imposed a somewhat unifying theory on a vast number of sects and god worships across India, which they couldn't classify under any other religion?

Never heard of it. Maybe plausible but dubious as Asoka (a warlord which vastly expanded the Indian Empire) famously converted to Hinduism which is supposedly why the subcontinent is predominantly Hindu.
Unless the British were capable of inventing a an entire historiography and fabricating evidence, I doubt that's actually how it went down.

 

[DumbDude42]

hinduism is mostly an umbrella term for a collection of many different religions from india, many of which share some of their beliefs and practices with each other. even buddhism, which is usually regarded as a separate religion, still has some overlap with the others, for example some hindus consider the buddha one of their many deities and venerate him accordingly.

 

[Skitarii]

@Penis Drager what do you think of the theory that there was no Hinduism until the British imposed a somewhat unifying theory on a vast number of sects and god worships across India, which they couldn't classify under any other religion?

Crap theory, because the Greeks were categorizing Indian traditional beliefs into the catch-all "hinduism" long before Uncle John Bull washed up om the shores of Bengal the Chinese and Muslims were too, but they were more concerned with taxable population rather than how the castes fit into the western understanding of rule of law

 

[Penis Drager]

hinduism is mostly an umbrella term for a collection of many different religions from india, many of which share some of their beliefs and practices with each other. even buddhism, which is usually regarded as a separate religion, still has some overlap with the others, for example some hindus consider the buddha one of their many deities and venerate him accordingly.

I like to think of Hinduism as being similar to the Greek/Roman religion.
There was a pantheon of gods in which the people chose their patron.
The primary difference being that Hinduism started much earlier and has persisted to this day..

 

[Stephanie Bustcakes]

The Brahmans tend to believe that the family you are born under is either a reward or punishment resulting from your actions in a past life. It's a very moralistic position in which people born under a certain caste deserve to be there. It's fucked up and I can't think of any other religion which actively encourages contempt for the poor. The higher castes are expected to live a life of luxury as a reward for past deeds because these people are further along in their path to enlightenment.

How do people who aren't a part of the Indian caste system factor in? Do only Hindus reincarnate? If not, is some guy born in Ireland as a Catholic being rewarded or punished for his past life?

 

[Open Window Maniac]

How do people who aren't a part of the Indian caste system factor in? Do only Hindus reincarnate? If not, is some guy born in Ireland as a Catholic being rewarded or punished for his past life?

The answer to that question depends on if you're asking an Irishman or an Englishman.

 

[Exigent Circumcisions]

Polytheism is the sign of a weak mind. That is all.

 

[Penis Drager]

How do people who aren't a part of the Indian caste system factor in? Do only Hindus reincarnate? If not, is some guy born in Ireland as a Catholic being rewarded or punished for his past life?

This depends on the Hindu you ask:
Either the family you are born under is a punishment or reward because of your past life or it's entirely to teach you some sort of lesson on your path to enlightenment.
Hinduism cares little about your belief in the religion.

As far as Brahmans or whichever sect worships Vishnu is concerned: you live the life you deserve. You may climb up the ladder by being better.
Shivrati believe your past and current and future lives are all a lesson which are supposed to lead you to enlightenment. Even a life of terrible deeds is to show you what it's like to do bad things and to revel in joy in the fact that you did them. They believe one cannot reach enlightenment without experiencing everything. There is no ladder. There is no "good" or "bad" karma. Karma is just experience and action and the more you accrue, the closer you are to enlightenment.

 

[Sparkletor 2.0]

All I know is there is a four armed baby elephant thing and they love cows.

 

[Return of the Freaker]

they love cows.

So us kiwis are well on the path to enlightenment

 

[Table Country]

Polytheism is the sign of a weak mind. That is all.

Your mom is the sign of a gay mind.

 

[Kenya Jones]

Is this a Wolfetone bait thread?

 

[Exigent Circumcisions]

Your mom is the sign of a gay mind.

Street shitter detected.

 

[Penis Drager]

Is this a Wolfetone bait thread?

@WolfeTone seems to like it.

 

[El Gato Grande]

I like to think of Hinduism as being similar to the Greek/Roman religion.
There was a pantheon of gods in which the people chose their patron.
The primary difference being that Hinduism started much earlier and has persisted to this day..

I sort of disagree.

Based on what I’ve read Hinduism was somewhat similar to classical religion in its earlier stages (polytheistic gods representing individual characteristics of the natural world and human nature to explain why and how the attributes they represent exist), but as time went by it morphed into something spiritually very different.

Classical religion remained more straightforward and less intellectual, to the point where it ended up being subservient to civil politics and a lot of its followers didn’t take it too seriously, even satirizing it and leaving it behind once something new or more morally fulfilling came along (look at how much Christianity out competed it)

As Indian society got older Hinduism turned inwards, with more and more works of intellectual and spiritual depth being created and revised by its patrons. A good example of this are the Upanishads, which break with the largely ritual-based focus of earlier Vedic works and instead present a huge amount of context concerning philosophy and logic in an attempt to rationally define an answer to the human condition, more or less. Behind the statues of four-armed god people and elephant drawings there’s an enormous body of intellectual material their dedicated autists follow and try to optimize. It has far more options and mythology to learn compared to any other major religion. They’re so old and so internally obsessed that they’ve forgotten more than anyone has learned at this point and they’ve largely gone stagnant because from their perspective they’ve tried everything already.

Hinduism also presents a path to enlightenment which a lot of liberal/dissident types would agree with—you have to try different things and find enlightenment yourself. If you do bad, you feel the negative consequences until you get it through your thick skull what’s right and change your ways. In Islam/Classical religion, evildoers get smited instantly, in Christianity God waits patiently for them to have a change of heart and repent, and in Hinduism they realize sinning makes you feel awful in the long run (or they get tired of being reincarnated as a street sweeper) and choose goodness without the threat of eternal damnation (sometimes, because as OP said Hinduism isnt centralized AT ALL.)

 

[Penis Drager]

Hinduism also presents a path to enlightenment which a lot of liberal/dissident types would agree with—you have to try different things and find enlightenment yourself. If you do bad, you feel the negative consequences until you get it through your thick skull what’s right and change your ways. In Islam/Classical religion, evildoers get smited instantly, in Christianity God waits patiently for them to have a change of heart and repent, and in Hinduism they realize sinning makes you feel awful in the long run (or they get tired of being reincarnated as a street sweeper) and choose goodness without the threat of eternal damnation (sometimes, because as OP said Hinduism isnt centralized AT ALL.)

This is the one paragraph where I'd tend to disagree.
Many of the more "moralistic" sects of Hinduism see the caste system as being very similar to the Christo-Islamic conception of hell wherein you deserve the life you have and the bad karma accrued through it because you have already strayed from the path to enlightenment. This is actually the cause of a criticism mainly levied by the Aghori where a negative feedback loop results due to people being on the wrong path and are summarily forced even further down it. Hell is basically the eternal set of lives you are forced to live.

It's the Shivrati who care not for what your previous lives were or what you did. They are all about lessons learned but this results in other antisocial behaviors as the common Indian rape gangs are primarily Shivrati.
It's not supposed to be a blank check to do as you please, but many of Shiva's cultists act as though it was. The sect almost explicitly says it's okay to do bad things sometimes, creation through destruction after all. And so many are convinced it's their lot in this life to be bad people so as to learn the lessons which come from being bad.

 

[From The Uncanny Valley]

I JUST THINK SHIVA IS REALLY COOL

THAT IS ALL