Son’s of Anarchy (+ Mayans)

[Tepes Thot]

I didn’t see a thread here, but I figured enough people had probably seen the series that we could do a general franchise talk.

The Spin-off Mayans M.C. is worth talking about to me too. I know its quality is heavily debated in the fandom, but still.

Show Description:
“Sons of Anarchy is an American action crime drama television series created by Kurt Sutterthat aired from 2008 to 2014. It follows the lives of a close-knit outlaw motorcycle cluboperating in Charming, a fictional town in California's Central Valley. The show stars Charlie Hunnam as Jackson "Jax" Teller, who is initially the vice president and subsequently the president of the club. After discovering a manifesto written by his late father, John, who previously led the MC, he soon begins to question the club, himself, and his relationships. Love, brotherhood, loyalty, betrayal, and redemption are consistent themes throughout the show.”

What are you guy’s thoughts about everything, on and off camera?
(Let me know if anything is missing from the OP)

 

[Tom Myers]

I liked SoA, but I haven't been able to get through any of Mayans.

IIRC, it's from the same creator as The Shield and has some of the same actors.

 

[Tepes Thot]

I liked SoA, but I haven't been able to get through any of Mayans.

IIRC, it's from the same creator as The Shield and has some of the same actors.

Yeah Kurt Sutter. I didn’t watch the Shield until after SOA, but it was fun to go back and see where he fit everyone.
I wish he would’ve brought Shawn Ryan (who I think was the dominant mind behind The Shield), but ultimately it still turned out decent.

Mayans is an interesting beast as far as what not to do. It had good characters, but Telenovela writing.

I wonder what really went down with Kurt and Disney.

 

[White Devil]

I hate watched SoA, mainly because I fucking hate the main character and waited like 7 seasons to see him die. I also hated Katey Segal's character and a lot of the show bugged me because it was extremely contrary to what I know about OMGs.

That being said, it had some good parts. Tig stole every scene he was in. I always enjoyed Marilyn Manson's and Henry Rollins cameos. The show had a lot of good musical choices although the main theme is fucking garbage. I feel it didn't really get good until the last couple seasons when shit just kept spiraling.

I never watched an episode of Mayans. Was more interested in the prequel show that they were supposedly doing.

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

I liked Sons of Anarchy when it started, but I felt it became way too much of a soap opera and just got worse and worse as it went on. It's fun, but it baffles me that some people put it up on the level of Sopranos or Breaking Bad.

I only watched the first season of Mayans. I felt the same way, it seemed fun but also seemed like it was going to go down the soap opera path. The only reason I didn't keep up with it was because I was getting out of live television and by the time I thought about it I figured I should just wait until it was finished to just watch it straight through.

Kurt Sutter needs someone to help keep his more meandering and ridiculous shit in line IMO. Isn't it rumored he wanted The Shield to end with a twist that Dutch was a secret serial killer the whole time and Shawn Ryan nixed the idea immediately?

 

[Hugbox Kommissar]

Liked the early seasons, got bored with the show as it became more of a soap opera with motorcycles. Heard horrible things about "the Ireland season". Apparently the finale wasn't great, but wasn't terrible either.

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

I recall my problem with the final season basically being everyone acting dumb just to get the plot where it needed to get.

 

[Poppavalyim Andropoff]

Kurt Sutter needs someone to help keep his more meandering and ridiculous shit in line IMO. Isn't it rumored he wanted The Shield to end with a twist that Dutch was a secret serial killer the whole time and Shawn Ryan nixed the idea immediately?

I thought The Shield ending was perfect.
Dutch did kill that cat it wouldn't be that outrageous to see him take that next step of human murder. Being a serial killer is a bit too far though yeah but he didn't get a good ending. Maybe he'd be chasing a serial killer & he kills in the same way who knows.
I was surprised they didn't bring in something like the Golden State Killer on a storyline given how the whole premise (and original title) was the Rampart scandal.

Liked the early seasons, got bored with the show as it became more of a soap opera with motorcycles. Heard horrible things about "the Ireland season". Apparently the finale wasn't great, but wasn't terrible either.

finale was fucking gay. arms out? bread? spilling wine/trans fluid. Gimme a fucking break

IIRC, it's from the same creator as The Shield and has some of the same actors.

Shawn Ryan created The Shield & was the show runner.
Sutter was a staff writer at first then ended up being a producer & wrote/directed a few episodes but was far from the creator.

SOA was a prime failure for not having Vic Mackey as a biker. He'd be far more convincing than that stupid British twat.

 

[Overly Serious]

I watched the first season of this. It was okay but didn't really grab me. Only two things really amused me about it - firstly I had a mate who looked just like Jax so it was like my mate was interacting with these characters. Secondly, the point where I realised this show was just Hamlet with motorcycles but less wit.

E.g. Jax is the son of the late king (Hamlet) whose mother has married the usurper (who may or may not have killed Hamlet's Jax's father.). The "ghost" of his father are actually the secret journal of his father that he has found through which his father speaks to him and urges him to action. The nurse girlfriend is Ophelia. I don't remember the show well enough to recall if there were people in the role of Laertes, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern but maybe. Someone who's watched it more recently/avidly than I did could answer that.

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

Dutch did kill that cat it wouldn't be that outrageous to see him take that next step of human murder. Being a serial killer is a bit too far though yeah but he didn't get a good ending. Maybe he'd be chasing a serial killer & he kills in the same way who knows.

The story I heard was that Kurt Sutter wanted the last shot (or at least Dutch's last shot) to be him walking into his basement and for the wall to be adorned with severed arms.

I think the biggest problem with it is that it would have immediately made Dutch the worst character instead of Vic.

 

[Poppavalyim Andropoff]

I forgot how there was suspicion he killed the boys mother

 

[Tepes Thot]

I liked Sons of Anarchy when it started, but I felt it became way too much of a soap opera and just got worse and worse as it went on. It's fun, but it baffles me that some people put it up on the level of Sopranos or Breaking Bad.

I only watched the first season of Mayans. I felt the same way, it seemed fun but also seemed like it was going to go down the soap opera path. The only reason I didn't keep up with it was because I was getting out of live television and by the time I thought about it I figured I should just wait until it was finished to just watch it straight through.

Kurt Sutter needs someone to help keep his more meandering and ridiculous shit in line IMO. Isn't it rumored he wanted The Shield to end with a twist that Dutch was a secret serial killer the whole time and Shawn Ryan nixed the idea immediately?

Yep and Shawn Ryan pulled him in. That’s when I knew he should’ve been brought along to Sons. Kurt is the kind of writer that is competent to a point, but needs a partner to get the job done.

I would put The Shield on BB or Sopranos level. Sons had to many clumsy mishaps to be on that level. I love the show, but it’s flawed.

Liked the early seasons, got bored with the show as it became more of a soap opera with motorcycles. Heard horrible things about "the Ireland season". Apparently the finale wasn't great, but wasn't terrible either.

Ireland was laughably stupid. It had terrible accents, misunderstanding of the IRA, and attracted to my sibling who I didn’t know was my sibling. I think they got possessed by Aaron Spelling for a minute.

I recall my problem with the final season basically being everyone acting dumb just to get the plot where it needed to get.

They rushed some of the important things, and I don’t know why. They ended up having 7 seasons and plenty of time to build up to where they went. I think even the cast has addressed the writing and called this out.

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

Also, I thought the fact everyone was just cool with Tig fucking a tranny was kind of dumb. Like an entire plot point was someone getting flipped because they were afraid that they'd kill him for being half black, but then they're just okay with that? What?

 

[Tepes Thot]

Also, I thought the fact everyone was just cool with Tig fucking a tranny was kind of dumb. Like an entire plot point was someone getting flipped because they were afraid that they'd kill him for being half black, but then they're just okay with that? What?

Oh my god. That, and that they used his pronouns. You mean to tell me the gang that had dropped copious racial slurs, had no problem checking women harshly, or turning a blind eye when Clay beat Gemma cuz that was his old lady, and were hardened criminals, cared to do that? It definitely made the Juice story that much more stupid.

I guess you could argue they were using Venus and didn’t want to upset him, but after that? Mayans definitely handled that topic more realistically, they even let the guy get called a faggot twice.

 

[White Devil]

Oh my god. That, and that they used his pronouns. You mean to tell me the gang that had dropped copious racial slurs, had no problem checking women harshly, or turning a blind eye when Clay beat Gemma cuz that was his old lady, and were hardened criminals, cared to do that? It definitely made the Juice story that much more stupid.

I guess you could argue they were using Venus and didn’t want to upset him, but after that? Mayans definitely handled that topic more realistically, they even let the guy get called a faggot twice.

Like I posted before, the way they act is so outside OMG norms. Shit like that just wouldn't happen, it'd be more likely that Tig and the others would kill the tranny when Tig found out it was a dude.

 

[Hesa]

Liked the early seasons, got bored with the show as it became more of a soap opera with motorcycles. Heard horrible things about "the Ireland season". Apparently the finale wasn't great, but wasn't terrible either.

The Ireland season was utter shite and I gave up on it then.

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

I totally forgot until just now that one of the big moments in the finale was letting the first black member into the Sons of Anarchy.

God, the finale really was dumb. It does make me remember how during the first season my dad got all butthurt that half of them lived in nice suburban homes instead of shitholes and trailers and shit.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

The show peaked with season two and then was just various levels of mediocre soap opera drek. I get why people like it in general but, yeah, it baffles me that people put it on the same level as the Sopranos or even Justified, which had a lot of problems itself.

 

[Tepes Thot]

I recall my problem with the final season basically being everyone acting dumb just to get the plot where it needed to get.

Exactly that. They rushed Clay, then gave a weak redemption arc. The season Clay was exposed, was the season he should’ve died (preferably 6 or 7). I don’t think they knew where to go without him.

August just happened to be worse than Pope so they never really got out of the frying pan until Jax killed him before his suicide.
Gemma just happened to hook up with Jimmy Smits who was exactly what they needed.
Able just happened to overhear what he needed to get Gemma killing Tara out there.
Etc.

I watched the first season of this. It was okay but didn't really grab me. Only two things really amused me about it - firstly I had a mate who looked just like Jax so it was like my mate was interacting with these characters. Secondly, the point where I realised this show was just Hamlet with motorcycles but less wit.

E.g. Jax is the son of the late king (Hamlet) whose mother has married the usurper (who may or may not have killed Hamlet's Jax's father.). The "ghost" of his father are actually the secret journal of his father that he has found through which his father speaks to him and urges him to action. The nurse girlfriend is Ophelia. I don't remember the show well enough to recall if there were people in the role of Laertes, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern but maybe. Someone who's watched it more recently/avidly than I did could answer that.

Oh wow, lol. That had be hilarious at first.

And yeah he claims he referenced it, I think you could argue for a re-telling with how much he used.

I forgot how there was suspicion he killed the boys mother

I thought they were gonna go there with Dutch when he strangled the cat, but I’m glad they didn’t. I didn’t know people suspected he killed the boy’s mom, but that was one of the best stories. Dutch was really shaken by how much he could be like that boy, and I like how it didn’t just go away for his character.

 

[Poppavalyim Andropoff]

I didn’t know people suspected he killed the boy’s mom, but that was one of the best stories.

Well it was in universe not us 'the audience'.
I mean it was obvious to us he was being set up with the burnt clothes ect but merely alluding to it on screen it was like perhaps he had crossed the line finally.
I watched the shield as it aired back then and remember thinking swift is going on.
I wouldn't have liked to see him kill but maybe something like in the closing scene Claudette hands him a new case file on someone called The Wolf (call back to the date spy cam singalong) and rattles off a vague description that sounds like Dutch & then Billings would have one of he's usual shit hanging lines alluding to how he's looking for himself.
Shit did I just write fanfic?!
Zero fucks anyway The Shield is my favourite TV show.
Yeah I like The Wire, Sopranos, Breaking Bad ect but