Sudbury/"Free", Waldorf, & Anthroposcopic Schools - By special snowflakes, for special snowflakes

UncleTusky

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Sudbury Schools/Free Schools

Free schools, also called Sudbury schools, first started to emerge in the counterculture movement of the 60s/70s. These weren't just hippy schools where students followed a new-age or "make love not war" curriculum, these were schools with no formal curriculum or teachers, mixing of students of all ages, and where students had the absolute right to determine what (if anything) they studied.

Sudbury Valley School (SVS), the first Sudbury school, was founded in 1968 by Daniel Greenberg, a physicist with no education or child development background; from there, thirty-plus schools in multiple countries have opened based on the exact same model. This OP is going to focus on SVS, but the thread's open to dirt/discussion on any of the Sudbury/free schools.

Mr. Greenberg did an interview with a British station, some of the highlights from which were:


* Greenberg believes that children should be given the same autonomy and credence as grown adults from the age of 4 (+ or -).

* Adult supervision is not a given, and students can spend the day playing videogames if they want

* Honor system used for attendance, students only need to show up 5 1/2 hours a day (legal minimum) and have significant flexibility in arrival/departure time.

This is already playing with fire, but it gets worse somehow: The Sudbury Valley "school" isn't there to educate or support kids, and in some ways it even encourages bad habits.

http://archive.is/vF6i http://archive.is/QyrAu

* Learning is a byproduct of students doing what they want, rather than a goal or focus.

* Students work (for free!) in the front office. This is not unique to Sudbury Valley either, Philadelphia Free School also puts its students to work on jobs normally done by full-time staff

* Students hold bake sales to get equipment they need, rather than ask staff what they can arrange.

* Students are expected to figure things out on their own, without guidance from teachers (assuming the linked story isn't made-up of course).

* Videogames are good for developing minds, and children know to gravitate towards the ones that benefit them

I know these links are all related to Sudbury Valley School, but it was the model and philosophy that every other Sudbury/free school copied-they all share the same exceptional form of "teaching"/"learning", governance, and even age mixing.


Like many other lolcows, Sudbury Valley School reacts very negatively to criticism even if true.

* In mid-2001, a "60 Minutes" reporter filmed an episode at the Sudbury Valley school. Footage showed exactly what you'd expect: no classes, kids running wild because, well, they're kids, and minimal adult supervision. Rather than fix the situation, the school banned reporters from campus.

* In Spring 2011, a Boston-area paper described SVS as "A School With no Rules", resulting in severe butthurt from students and staff but no rebuttal to the allegations.

One thing specific to Sudbury Valley School is that it encourages, but not requires, students to write a thesis in their final term there. For any other high school, that would be unusually heavy work; for this school, it would be a good rebuttal to accusations of no learning/structure. But since we're in exceptional individual territory, it's a complete farce. I can't find detailed requirements or guidelines, but the examples I've found are maybe eight pages long with no citations, focus, headings, or conclusions, and even written in 1st person. Not even 9th grade standards of length or professionalism, and they have the gall to call it a "thesis" written by a "high school graduate".

With all this in mind, of course the students don't turn out well: Sudbury Valley won't even confirm its students are all literate & only has anecdotal evidence to claim its model works.



Other free/Sudbury schools:

http://archive.is/UEh8V (Brooklyn Free School)

* Students teaching classes on advanced subjects

* Mother of a student there wants him to be happy, rather than academically successful.

* Some parents hire private tutors to teach basic material like long division and spelling, because the school will not cover it on its own and children won't necessarily want to learn it on their own


Popular model with hard-left sites: http://archive.is/8xJnf
Links:

Sudbury Valley School's webpage

Website about the Sudbury model in general

Waldorf (Steiner) schools

Waldorf schools, also called Steiner schools are a whole different brand of crazy: if Sudbury schools are disorganized communes, Waldorf schools are isolated cults. Whereas Sudbury Valley was founded by a counterculture physicist with no idea of how kids work, Waldorf schools were founded in the early 1900s by an artist with no idea of how kids work by the name of Rudolf Steiner. This was new-age self indulgence before new-age self-indulgence was a thing.https://waldorfeducation.org/waldorf_education

* The whole philosophy, behind the schools, Anthroposophy, is just a more verbose form of :tumblr: or a new-age religion: "At the heart of Anthropsophy is the belief that humanity has the wisdom to transform itself and the world, through one's own spiritual development.... Waldorf [e]ducation holds as its primary intention the ideal of bringing forth - in every child - his or her unique potential in a way that serves the further development of humanity".

* Arts are taught & integrated from a young age, and supposedly "experienced" rather than just taught. By integrated, I mean students "self-express" what they've learned through art, rather than more sane typical methods like homework or quizzes.

* The alphabet isn't introduced until first grade, and reading doesn't begin until the end of first grade.

* Tying into the above, Waldorf schools introduce foreign languages before kids can even read and write English.

* Schools "teach" eurythymy, the "art" of making music and speech visible, especially the tone.

*Students have the same teacher for five to eight years at a time, well beyond the point where students normally have a dedicated/specialized teacher for each subject.

* No exposure to computers for younger students, and parents are encouraged to limit media/computer access at home too, even for teens.

* Of course Waldorf schools don't track students' SAT or ACT scores; students who want to do well on those need a private tutor.

I had to direct link above because the pages do not work with archive.is or the Wayback Machine. AFAIK that's not a sign of bad programming, that's something the webmaster would have to gone out of his/her way to include; I also got asked for login credentials a couple times on their FAQ page. These people are nuts. Here's the robots.txt for those with more tech knowledge than I.



Link to Waldorf Schools of North America

EDIT 1: Added headers & Waldorf/Anthroscopic school info, changed title to reflect it. Thanks to @DykesDykesChina for the suggestion.
 
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Minor powerlevel: I did an admissions interview at one of these schools because my mother thought I wasn't learning/fitting in well at the public elementary school. I was maybe 9 or 10 years old at the time, and I still realized the "school" was fucked. That YouTube video isn't an exaggeration- kids running around, no real classrooms, no adults or discipline, the whole "school" was just a renovated fucking house. Even the woman running the info session/interview seemed vaguely off, and couldn't explain difficult concepts to save her life even though she was also a teacher there. What's even worse, the other staff must've thought she was the best choice to convey their message; they must be either insane or terrible judges of character
 
Real talk, if we let our kids do everything they wanted they would be roaming around the hose pretending to be a dinosaur all the time instead of learning how to live in this world as a human.

You gotta have at least some guidelines they have to follow (I get the whole "free your kid's mind stuff" but without guidelines they have to adhere to they won't get anything done.)
 
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I was waiting for a thread on these types of schools.

Reminds me of those parents who allow their kids to have access to cigarettes and alcohol from an early age to teach them how to drink responsibly and use drugs responsibly. In theory, you're teaching them to be an adult with adult responsibilities and occasional adult struggles to help them mature. In practice, you give your child the option to have a substance abuse problem and hope that they can overcome a problem that a number of adults can't.

In keeping with that theme, there's more to being an adult than being able to hold your liquor and socializing. So, while this school does prepare students by teaching them certain things (how to socialize for instance) it doesn't teach much else. Theoretically, the best case scenario is that a graduate would be incredibly charismatic and friendly, but also incredibly stupid.
 
This reminds me of Free-Range Parenting too when I think about it

Should we include Waldorf/Anthroposophic schools in this topic? Where they teach them that fairies and elves are totes real...

It's much, much, MUCH WORSE THAN THAT.

Fun fact, Anthroposophy heavily influenced Naziism and continues to influence the Deep Ecology Movement and the Anti-Vaccination Movement in addition to all this ORGANIC SHIT we see all the damn fucking time.

See all this Organic shit you see all the time is from Biodynamic agriculture which believes in a mystical connection between a farmer and his land that is interfered with when a farmer practices mechanized agriculture (It all has to do with the "spiritual" qualities of the Blood and the Soil. You heard that before?.) Hitler along with the rest of the Nazis believed Steiner's concept of biodynamic agriculture and for that reason, considered scientific agriculture verboten. This is actually why the Nazis pursued Barbarossa and felt a need for lebensraum so much.

Steiner's concept of biodynamic agriculture is one of the reasons World War II happened.


Not only did Anthroposophy create World War 2 but it also is responsible for all the irrational opposition to all forms of GMO in agriculture. I doubt anyone here will support Monsanto controlling all the seeds in the whole world but useful stuff like pesticides, modifying animal genes so that they don't die all the time, or even modifying spiders to make silk that is stronger than Kevlar is all against Anthroposophy.

Not only that but also according to Steiner, childhood diseases are from a child's karma (AND HE WAS WRITING ABOUT WHOOPING COUGH AND MEASLES NOT YOUR COMMON COLD)

He believed that if you want the kid to get better you have to make them grow up not selfish, I'm serious which might actually be the cause of the belief that vaccines cause autism because according to Steiner selfishness = autism. Parents are to stay home with children and nurse them if they get sick with shit like Whooping Cough.

And people who believe this teach kids. Think of that.
 
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Do we have more info on these kids coming out illiterate and stuff, I want to know how these little shits come out into the adult world

I think that was mentioned in the OP. Something about the school not being entirely upfront with that information.

It wouldn't surprise me if people saw it as a daycare service. Enrolling their kids until age 11-13 or something, then sending them to get an actual education in an actual school. So, they might not actual have a lot of high school students who graduate from the school.
 
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I think the biggest flaw in this kind of school system is, that it is build on trusting the children to care for the long run and focus themself on learning etc.
The thing is, children are litterally not able to do that, because the praefrontal cortex - the part of the brain that is supposed to handle things like planning and self control - is the part of the brain that takes the longest time to mature, till adulthood. (And this is why a part of people with ADHD turn normal when reaching adulthood, because their brain could outgrow its difficulties - but the rest (might even be the bigger part) continues being afflicted their whole live.) This is why children are treated differently in law, why we don't allow them so many things; it's not only because of a lack of knowledge and being physically weaker, but also because of lacking the level of resonsibility only someone with an matured praefrontal cortex can archieve.
Children need teachers and parents to guide them to learn certain stuff, not only because of the knowledge in itself, but because some of the most annoying stuff is actually needed to develop certain skills (much of maths for example to develop your analytical and formal thinking).

That said, one thing about this school I think is not that bad is the mixing of children of different ages. Kids should not only interact with kids their own age. But I think this could be handled in a much smarter way. Why not for example using some of the subjects that don't need such a strict order (like e.g. history, arts, geography) to let kids of different ages make stuff together?

Learning what you want is fun and highly effective (because it uses the "mastery" strategy, which is self motivated), but that doesn't excuse you from learning the other stuff that is also important.
I recently heard the story of a fellow student; she started to study computer-science, but felt after a while that this was not the kind of stuff she wants to spend the rest of her live with. Therefore she tested out 3D-animating, liked it and joined an online learning course. She then made an extensive practicum at a game-developer for one semester and even stayed on the next semester, because they needed her, because the game was near its deadline, so she missed another semester. She's only still at university to get the last part of her credit points to finish her Bachelor's, because she started it and wants to finish it.
So far so good, she has actual skills in modeling, industry pratice, so what's the problem? She can't draw. She had more than one application talk, where everything went great, until she was asked about her non-digital drawing skills.
People in that kind of business expect this kind of skills, because you actually need them to prototype your characters and stuff.
She does not really want to learn to draw, but she still does, because it's part of what she needs to get employed in the long run.
All in all, kids should be motivated to learn some things on their own, to learn a healthy learning style and fascilitate their self-efficacy; but also should be pushed if necessary to learn important stuff of which they can't access the importance yet, not only bacause they should know it, but also to simply suck it up and dealing with stuff you don't like is also a very very important life skill.
 
It's anticipating a utopia where every kid is able to shut up and learn on their own without adult intervention, which is a rare trait for a child to have and it falls apart once you put several in the same place to distract one another. They certainly are not going to learn how to read or write when faced with the alternate option of playing Minecraft all day.

I want to read some of those exit theses.
 
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Does this count as a powerlevel if it sort of contributes to the discussion? If so, rate away, and mea culpa. For what it's worth, though ...

I was in a Waldorf school for a couple of years. I don't know how much it compares to the Philly Free School and similar shit like that, but two things stand out in my memory: eurhythmics and gnomes.

Every few days, we'd get pulled out of class for a eurhythmics session. (It's technically called eurhythmy, but our school called it eurhythmics. Dunno why.) We'd all stand in a circle in the school basement and do deep-breathing exercises, followed by posing and gesturing in a way which, now that I look back on it, reeked of proto-yoga. Shoes were absolutely forbidden during these sessions; you had to wear these little dance slippers that I was always losing. We did this instead of gym class. I never understood the purpose, but some of my earliest memories of school involve a weird English-accented dude with a hyphenated surname telling us to breathe in peacefully.

And the gnomes. Gnomes were everywhere. Every class, even the eighth-graders, had a class gnome with its own name and personality. When the class went to a different classroom for any reason, one person was selected to bring the gnome with them. This was a great honor.

(Ours was named Bimpabump. I do not know why I remember this. I have valuable brain cells devoted to Bimpabump that I will never get back.)

Gnomes were used as teaching aids, too. They taught us little kids arithmetic by explaining it thusly: numbers were gems, and the signs were all gnomes who handled the gems in different ways. Plus was a generous gnome with big pockets full of gems, Multiplication knew how to make more gems, Division had a cool sword that cut gems in half, and Minus was a careless gnome with a hole in his bag who kept losing gems.

I feel I should note that I couldn't read, write, or do basic arithmetic until I was moved to an evil, repressive Catholic school a year later.

TL;DR Waldorf can fuck right off.
 
Steiner schools are weird and also have this crackpot idea that bullying doesn't real. They believe it's kids getting their comeuppance for bad things they did in a past life.

Except it isn't. Your average bully will find any reason to bully someone who makes a suitable victim. The fat kid loses weight? Ahhh, he's still ginger though. The lass with the big tits who all the boys fancy? She's a slut because she's always got the boys hanging around. She arseholes all the boys and keeps to herself? She's clearly a lesbian then. Bookish and no good at rugby? You're gay. Bookish kid works out loads and gets onto the rugby team? He's still gay because he enjoys the company of large, sweaty men. It's got nothing to do with past lives.

This Mumsnet thread refers to parents being given sums of money to keep quiet about bullying in Steiner schools.

As for this Sudbury school nonsense, I wonder how many parents have had to be given hush money to cover up abuse and stuff.
 
I want to play in this thread so bad, but I can't do it with out being super A-log. I will say I'll poke in if I can help with my backround being on both sides of the educational system.

I think a major draw of these are the people who are the top end mouth breathers who see problems with the system so any crack pot theory that's not the normal system HAS to be better.

I honestly pity those who have to go through these things and I understand in many of the ideas these schools come from, understand people and children learn differently and what's best for one may not be the other but it's just another case of well my kid or X kid didn't do well in the traditional system, so the system they could do better in works better for all!

Now in theory, I think these schools could have some use for some students but one thing that's almost fucking universally missing from people whom go there is serious parental stimuli. If you were as lucky as some of us were growing up read to etc in 2nd grade you were in chapter books, you woulda been better off coloring or doing a math sheet than sitting listening to hop on pop for educational growth but story time was useful as it's social and also teaches you sometimes work sucks even if it's sitting hearing the same book over and over.
 
A lot of charter schools are total pieces of shit, too. I've posted about the one I went to in the Personal Lolcows thread a couple times, and a lot of the 'classes' were basically just setting the kids to work cleaning up the school and not actually teaching them anything.
 
A lot of charter schools are total pieces of shit, too. I've posted about the one I went to in the Personal Lolcows thread a couple times, and a lot of the 'classes' were basically just setting the kids to work cleaning up the school and not actually teaching them anything.
Charters can be hit or miss big time, unlike "free" schools I've seen some very nice ones first hand even. But that's kinda another topic. The difference with Charters as well, the model and idea isn't batshit to start.
 
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