The Foundation of Survival and Self-Sufficiency - Philosophy and Mindset

[Homey Erectus]

This topic might veer a bit into the abstract but it is nonetheless important and often overlooked. Most people who are serious about this subject know that the most important tool is your mind, whether knowledge or experience. True self sufficiency is more than that, it is a philosophy and at least partially dependent on one's worldview if not fully. I would like to gather insight from others and share my own as well. While somewhat abstract, this topic is also practical and actionable and not intended to be merely mental masturbation. Every significant action starts with a thought and requires a plan, it forms the foundation of everything you do even if you are not aware of it at the time. As a foundation, anything built upon it is dependent on how sound it is and flaws may not be apparent initially until serious problems arise. The goal of self-sufficiency should be more than just freedom of the physical self, but of the mind as well. If your mind is enslaved or dependent on something else you can be easily manipulated and make grave errors, and thus not truly self-sufficient. While most agree the goal is, more or less, to become an autodidact polymath, wisdom is equally important.

1. What is the purpose of self-sufficiency?
   • To be the master of your own destiny.
   • A desire for freedom beyond the confines of society or dependency on it.
   • A reaction to a corrupt/decadent society that has no future or has become corrupt and restrictive.
2. What is survival?
   • Personal survival is the continuation of one's existence
   • Darwinian survival is the continuation of one's genotype: Kind and Kin
   • Advancement and adaptation to one's environment and foes is required - Stasis is Death.
3. No man is an island
   • For purposes of labor and expertise distribution, much can be done by an exceptional individual but a community is still needed to carry the burden.
   • Man cannot reproduce via budding or mitosis, therefore true survival is not an individual activity.
   • True survival cannot be accomplished by a pair, unless they wish to doom their children to inbreeding and a genetic bottleneck.
4. Methodology: (EX): "Of each particular thing ask what is it in itself, what is its nature" - Marcus Aurelius
   • The means by which you orient yourself towards reality, solve problems, and even address the metaphysical which affects motivation and compatibility with others.
   • Do you approach problems and society with Math or Sentiment?
5. Morality/Ethics
   • Are your decisions determined by yourself, or an external entity. Is your external entity reflective of reality, or further manipulation?

 

[ChefBourgeoisie]

I'm a radical autarkist. I wish to provide for all of my needs, or such a high percentage of them, with as few people as possible, that we don't need anything at all from the rest of you except to sell you absurd doodads enough that we can pay property tax. I figure the ideal number of people is fewer than 40, the minimum acreage is under 1000, and that without outside inputs we could survive as a group with a constant standard of living for 250+ years. One of the bigger challenges is food-safe tin recovery (presumably from discard electronic waste).

 

[Legalize Asbestos]

PSA self-sufficiency / survivalist people are in danger of a demonic trap:

"No I will not negotiate with society!"
"I must have control over my gender life no matter what!"
"I have to learn everything! I refuse to rely on anyone!"
"I'm adding another defensive ring to the shtf property, in case someone ever even thinks of loving me (and then fucking me over!)"
"I'll stack silver... in a vault... that I'll bury! In multiple locations! And uh... I'll live poor! So no one ever knows I'm rich!"

Shrinking, isolating. Every new skill learned is another person cut out of your life. It is the autistic version of will-to-power. Fear masquerading as curiosity and frugality.

To avoid this demonic trap, you have to ask yourself if the actions taken are in service of God, any higher calling, or - barring those - at least in service of other people / family you care about - and with their assent! If it's just 'for' them and 'they'll see why one day' that is not good enough; they think you're a weirdo wasting your time. That is not the same as friends and family approving of and encouraging your behavior.

90% of people who try to live on sailboats to save on rent fail miserably or give it up within a year. Who are the 10% who succeed? The people who like sailing.

90% of people who relocate to a cheap country eventually return to their birthplace, who are the 10% that stay? The ones with actual love for new country.

90% of homesteaders give up on their projects and return to the townships. The 10% that press on? They enjoy farming.

What kind of man do you want to be? What kind of role do you want to play? What was your soul made for? These are the tempering questions that ensure self-sufficiency stays in the realm of prudence, redundancy, pragmatism and stability - a supplement to your enterprise, instead of the dictating force. A rock to stand upon, and not a series of ever thickening walls between you and living.

 

[ChefBourgeoisie]

Legalize Asbestos isn't wrong. But the truth of the matter is that I can't trust society in general (at least the pervasive, universal/global one we have now). Telling myself "I don't have to do X myself, someone does it much better than me and much cheaper" is the road to disaster. Sure, that's true now. But then my children wake up one day 24 years from now, and no one will or even can sell them a banana. Or an oil filter. Or God help them, electricity. And it won't be any particular person's fault, except maybe mine because I didn't prepare far enough in advance.

He's right. You do need other people. You need people on your side, people on your team. You need people who have your back... and it's so damned difficult to find people like that. Some are just out there looking for marks to scam, cheat, and then throw away. Most are out there stumbling around trying to figure out how they're supposed to live life, but don't even know how to be true friends to anyone. And those rare unicorns who could be your friend, they're worried they'll fall for someone's grift. Difficult to find, hard to build trust with. It's not an easy problem.

 

[Homey Erectus]

I'm a radical autarkist. I wish to provide for all of my needs, or such a high percentage of them, with as few people as possible, that we don't need anything at all from the rest of you except to sell you absurd doodads enough that we can pay property tax. I figure the ideal number of people is fewer than 40, the minimum acreage is under 1000, and that without outside inputs we could survive as a group with a constant standard of living for 250+ years. One of the bigger challenges is food-safe tin recovery (presumably from discard electronic waste).

I wasn't sure what to expect, whether I would meet retarded mockery or deletion, so I apologize for the delay in my response. I lean heavy on the side of pessimism and misanthropy these days. Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

I'm a minarchist/autarkist as well, but the ideal number of people is around 150. That allows for some specialization, but doesn't exceed the "stranger" threshold that allows psychopaths, bad actors, and deleterious aliens to exist. I was in a command with over 300 people, we were basically a small floating town. Lots of drama, everyone knew everything spicy about everyone, etc.. I knew everyone by name and face, and also knew what to expect from them because I understood their personality. I'm quite a bit more perceptive and intelligent than the average person with a very good memory though, most people max out around 150 people for those details according to sources I've read in the past and that seems reasonable given my experience. A lot of those people in my command were superfluous, they were only helpful as a result of the artificial fluffing/face saving political BS and PR/quota type nonsense. A lot of people were completely fucking useless, most of the work, competency, and expectations fell on a handful of people, even across divisions and departments mind you.

I agree on the frivolous crass consumerism, but trade is important. That's why I believe a distributed network of communities with around 150 high quality people is ideal. Decentralized networks as a second best, but only as a stepping stone.

 

[Homey Erectus]

PSA self-sufficiency / survivalist people are in danger of a demonic trap:

"No I will not negotiate with society!"
"I must have control over my gender life no matter what!"
"I have to learn everything! I refuse to rely on anyone!"
"I'm adding another defensive ring to the shtf property, in case someone ever even thinks of loving me (and then fucking me over!)"
"I'll stack silver... in a vault... that I'll bury! In multiple locations! And uh... I'll live poor! So no one ever knows I'm rich!"

Repeat opening for clarification - I wasn't sure what to expect, whether I would meet retarded mockery or deletion, so I apologize for the delay in my response. I lean heavy on the side of pessimism and misanthropy these days. Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

Well I would first need to ask what you mean by "Demonic", and I'm really not trying to be pedantic but I try to avoid sloppy emotionally loaded terminology. Demon-Daemon originally just meant spirit, spirit being derived from espiritus, meaning "breath" or more simply "animating force". Now if you mean "evil" just say that, but again it's usually unproductive without qualification. You also mention being in service to "God", but that is another loaded term that can mean a lot of different things depending on the person and their upbringing/environment. This is where this topic delves into metaphysics as I stated initially. Firstly "God" is an modern Anglicized variation of "Wod", as in "Wotan", "Woden", "Odin", etc. Just as the Latin "Deus" and "Dios" is derivative of "Zeus". They are now titles not names. I have found it common that many people claim that their "God" is truth, so you would hopefully agree that "God" and "truth" are the same thing, yeah? If that is so, then lets avoid any religious and emotionally/ideologically loaded terminology as possible and discuss truth. Religions and "faith" are an example of external dependency, and thus contradictory to true self-sufficiency. I will not get into the specifics of my beliefs beyond my worship of the truth, that the truth is my God.

The rest of your reply seems to be an argument of negation by substitution. Yes most people are stupid, yes things which some people tangentially associate with "survivalism" and "self-sufficiency" are failures... Do you have any actual positive propositions we can discuss perhaps?

 

[Homey Erectus]

Legalize Asbestos isn't wrong. But the truth of the matter is that I can't trust society in general (at least the pervasive, universal/global one we have now). Telling myself "I don't have to do X myself, someone does it much better than me and much cheaper" is the road to disaster. Sure, that's true now. But then my children wake up one day 24 years from now, and no one will or even can sell them a banana. Or an oil filter. Or God help them, electricity. And it won't be any particular person's fault, except maybe mine because I didn't prepare far enough in advance.

He's right. You do need other people. You need people on your side, people on your team. You need people who have your back... and it's so damned difficult to find people like that. Some are just out there looking for marks to scam, cheat, and then throw away. Most are out there stumbling around trying to figure out how they're supposed to live life, but don't even know how to be true friends to anyone. And those rare unicorns who could be your friend, they're worried they'll fall for someone's grift. Difficult to find, hard to build trust with. It's not an easy problem.

Many of these issues are modern malformations, not perennial problems. Centuries of top down religiously justified social engineering, followed by decades of top down ideological social engineering amplified by modern media and technology... Given the right conditions and pressures, people can easily shed the cultural facade and return to their base state. They often do if you pay attention.

 

[Homey Erectus]

I see now, this place is typical of the degeneration in modern discussions. The disinformation controlled opposition did better than I thought at poisoning the well. This is yet another morass of arrogant ignorance, name calling childish retards that don't even have mastery of the English language. Schizophrenic religious fundamentalists are now cool and "sane" lmao, woe to everyone falling for this. Woe to anyone thinking a knowledge of history and linguistics is "autism". By the time these words make sense to most of these types, it will be far too late. Meanwhile they will continue mocking and acting the fool, while the whole time the joke is actually on them.

 

[11apocalyptic11]

I see now, this place is typical of the degeneration in modern discussions. The disinformation controlled opposition did better than I thought at poisoning the well. This is yet another morass of arrogant ignorance, name calling childish retards that don't even have mastery of the English language. Schizophrenic religious fundamentalists are now cool and "sane" lmao, woe to everyone falling for this. Woe to anyone thinking a knowledge of history and linguistics is "autism". By the time these words make sense to most of these types, it will be far too late. Meanwhile they will continue mocking and acting the fool, while the whole time the joke is actually on them.

I think you might have autism (and potentially something else since you ended up talking to yourself for quite a while there)

Anyway, I don't believe self sufficiency has to be this whole obsessive thing. I think taking steps to reduce dependency on others is great. Reduce doesn't mean remove, that honestly sounds impossible. I just want to have control over my life.

 

[888Flux]

PSA self-sufficiency / survivalist people are in danger of a demonic trap:

"No I will not negotiate with society!"
"I must have control over my gender life no matter what!"
"I have to learn everything! I refuse to rely on anyone!"
"I'm adding another defensive ring to the shtf property, in case someone ever even thinks of loving me (and then fucking me over!)"
"I'll stack silver... in a vault... that I'll bury! In multiple locations! And uh... I'll live poor! So no one ever knows I'm rich!"

wtf sort of psuedo intellectual nonsense is this. how has no one called you out on your bullshit yet? this sounds like a response you would get from an AI version of Jordan Peterson, literal word salad faux-philosophical bullshit with religion mixed in. I don't think there is a single person who lives like any of the imaginary stories you have in your head.

90% of people who relocate to a cheap country eventually return to their birthplace, who are the 10% that stay? The ones with actual love for new country.

life is not always about doing what you want to do. Just from this one post alone, I can tell you very clearly are of wealth, probably unearned wealth like inheritance or a trust fund.

we, as people make sacrifices for the future. "frugal living" is not some calling that has to be given to you by God. cutting back on expenses and not buying useless shit to fulfill instantaneous plesaure is not a "demonic trap". maybe I'm bad jacketing your argument, but your argument is so stupid I don't even know what you are trying to say.

with regards to the doomsday prepper compound shit you said, IDK of anyone besides people in the fringes of society who live like that. but that's of lesser concern to your absolute retarded line of thinking.

 

[Legalize Asbestos]

maybe I'm bad jacketing your argument, but your argument is so stupid I don't even know what you are trying to say.

I doubt I am any richer than you, but I am probably older.

About 20-30% of the people you will come across who are interested in self-sufficiency are motivated by fear of other people. They will never feel secure or rich by learning more things or gathering more assets. It's a big percentage, and that chunk is better off learning how to trust other people instead.

The other 70-80% already know I wasn't addressing them.

 

[Butterschmalz]

Every significant action starts with a thought and requires a plan, it forms the foundation of everything you do even if you are not aware of it at the time.

Why do you want to survive? Why not just live happy until something big and bad happens? Whats the point of your survival?

 

[888Flux]

I doubt I am any richer than you, but I am probably older.

About 20-30% of the people you will come across who are interested in self-sufficiency are motivated by fear of other people.

I don't know why you are equating the Branch Davidians Waco Compound to the average person who toils away at their minimum wage job and saves money to move themselves up a class or provide better opportunities for their children. "Self sufficiency" and "frugality" are two separate things, but share a significant overlap. Your view of "self sufficiency" here seems to be that of a Mad Max warlord or someone from that Doomsday Preppers TV show.

Your ideas can only come from someone who has never worried about money or financial responsibility in their entire life. To you I guess those are just a bunch of sad proles who didn't get approval from Jesus himself to eat rice and beans, or whatever nonsense you are trying to say.

In America and most of the West, we live in a system that has the worst of both worlds:
- A state that puts the interest of the political and corporate elite above the welfare of it's people
- A low trust, multicultural, late stage capitalist society where you share almost nothing in common with your neighbor

This is why the tenets of self sufficiency, and mutual aid are important. The "unit" that is the collective in society today is the individual. And of course, it's in the best interests of the state and corporate ruling class for it to be this way. When society has been molded like this, there aren't many people you can rely on.

If your point is "no man is an island", I agree with you there. Self sufficiency is best done when you are with people who share common interests.

And finally I want to reiterate something. Self sufficiency isn't "doomsday prepping". I believe self reliance is a much better term. While being self reliant could probably help you in a situation like that, it can also help you in times of economic downturn or everyday crises.

 

[Legalize Asbestos]

your ideas can only come from someone who has never worried about money or financial responsibility

I never collected cans for nickels was because it was better cost | benefit ratio to go wage at the temp agency instead. Take the time to find a pair of steel toes at Value Village that fit though. Mine were two sizes too big, and I still can't feel the edge of my big left toe. (I mean, if you see a can just lying there, grab it, obviously.)

Did you know if booze is the only thing keeping you going, but your credit is maxxed, you can tell your employer to stop deducting income tax from your wages? You can use the extra money to buy UBrew equipment off Facebook to cheapen your drinking habit. You can use the drinking money you saved to pay off the back-taxes. The following fiscal year you're ahead of the game.

Pro-tip. If you're gonna pick butts to save money on smokes, take the effort to pinch out the tobacco and re-roll it. There's more than one way to get herpes from fags at the bus-stop.

I'm not poor anymore. But I've been washing and drying the same packet of Zip-Locs for four years now.

This isn't a thread about being poor though. It's about self-sufficiency and survival. The 'Survival' part is why I addressed the Prepper people. They're the same people.

late stage capitalist society

First mentioned in 1902. Should be any day now.

 

[888Flux]

This isn't a thread about being poor though. It's about self-sufficiency and survival. The 'Survival' part is why I addressed the Prepper people. They're the same people.

I may in fact just be a retard with poor reading comprehension who jumped too early to a conclusion. Sorry if I misunderstood what you were trying to say earlier.

 

[9th year in hell]

It's easy to become delusional about these stuff, but if you can differentiate "survival" and "self sufficiency" so you don't start stacking up on dumb gear that you can't even use. It's a good start to not fall into any retard-traps. I split it up to following time periods:

1. Survival for 1 - 2 months - I see it as "extreme camping". Stack food (hunting is optional, but not a necessity), know how to set up different DIY water filter systems. Know how to keep yourself warm.
2. Survival for 3 - 6 months - Stacking food can work, but hunting is a must and starting a garden should be considered. Stacking consumables are a must too (soap, clothes & toilet paper, you name it!) and you will need quality stuff that lasts (tools that breaks can become a big issue down the line). I got no experience for such a time period, but I'm essentially seeing at as an extended "extreme camping", but in your house.
3. "Self sufficiency" for +1 year - now this is where you really need to learn how to maintain shit. No idea how to actualy pull this off... just having a usable greenhouse is a full season of work.

When people say "self sufficiency", too many people think it's just, gardening, hunting and chopping wood.... people who say this have no idea how bad things can get if you are out there alone. Can't get water from the well, shitty hunting season and the fishing area is not good (lakes might contain heavy metals)? That will suck! Tools/gear break and you can't just "buy a new one" can be a huge problem. It's not minecraft. Chopping wood with an axe sucks btw, the larp is not like those meme threads (life without petroleum is really not easy). Trying to be"self sufficient" is really hard to do since a lot of the design for systems are not made for it. For an example: Commercial solar cells + battery systems have AC/DC converters that needs a reference voltage from the grid, and those who don't, they cost 3x compared to the the needs-reference voltage ones. Grid goes down? Well your solar system goes down with it. So not only is trying to be self sufficient without petroleum hard, but also considering electricity makes it brutal! I'm going to be honest... I'm NGMI and neither will anyone else for a +1 year scenario.

If you think I'm doomposting, make a spreadsheet of every single item that you use every day (or week) + consumables. See how far you would make it if you couldn't go to the store at the moment. I personally included columns for:

• Item
• How many you use per months/year
• Durability/longevity (per usage or time)
• Required material to use it (fuel/gas, maintenance/repair parts, electricity and battery type etc) --> this will be a additional items in your spreadsheet list btw...
• Storage (backpack, box or room size)
• Price (per item)
• Additional info. (can be how to use it or to check quality, like preferred materials, size and model type and so on)

I can already tell you the nightmare logistics for being "self sufficient": Toilet paper, broken fridge/freezer, lack of warm water and no soap, throw in a broken pump for good measure... life will suck if you can't go to the store for some simple stuff you take for granted at the moment. I would focus on the first time period, which is just camping at first and then you can just push the time period. Then I would think you have the "experience" to imagine a +3 month scenario. For +1 year... well I guess I will just die then, lol.

I really encourage people to do a list like I did, since too many stores (and "influencers") are selling prepping merchandise and useless items (thanks to the covid19 meme and the Ukraine shit). Example: You don't need a wire saw from TEMU if you already got folding saw... You are on a budget and need to prioritize things.

In short: Try to figure out ways to go to the store less often for miscellaneous things first (but don't sacrifice food quality). Then try to do some camping to get a reality check.

I believe self reliance is a much better term.

I like this word way better, the "self sufficient" part is pretty much a lie.