The hypothetical destruction of the Kaaba - And it's social, political, and religious effects

[Iwasamwillbe]

When I was studying Islamic doctrine, I began to mull over a specific question, and it was:

"What would happen if the USA or one of its allies just up and completely destroyed the Kaaba, Black Stone included, with no hope of restoring or recovering it?"

What would be the response of the Muslim world? The response of Muslims in the West? The response of non-Muslim countries that are allied with Muslim nations?

Would such a thing start World War III, or cause a revolution in Islamic thought? Or is it something else entirely? What are your thoughts on the matter?

 

[Tootsie Bear]

The United States will face a huge backlash. When the hostage crisis happen decades ago the United States was seen as the main conspirator, even though they didn't have a hand in it. And Muslim protestors rioted and

 

[Dom Cruise]

World War III probably.

 

[Rokko]

Riots that would reduce the islamic population in the world by 1/3rd due to cardiac arrest, strokes, bulletwounds due to gravity, catching fire, etc.

 

[Babyspackle]

Mad Dog? Is that you Father?

 

[nonvir_1984]

Maybe remodel it like this. [Don't look if you are easily offended]

 

[Easterling]

The Islamic world would indeed have a shit fit, oil prices would rise to astronomical levels as the Saudis would no longer trade with the west, violence would spill onto the streets as any and all Muslims would probably see this as the greatest provocation in the existence of their faith. Destroying the Kaaba is essentially like using a piece of the true cross as a dildo and televising it. WW3 would probably occur and since the gloves are off at that point I dare say the nation of Israel probably wouldn't fair well considering the nuclear arsenal that Pakistan possesses.

 

[nonvir_1984]

The US "accidentially" took out part of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade during the Balkans conflict, in 1999. But the Chinese were reportedly up to no good. Not much happened, but the Chinese are rational.
In 1979 a bunch of saudi jihadis seized the grand mosque and the Magical Kingdom went berserk at them and reportedly they families.
My take is that if the Kabaa was destroyed or al Aqsa, the Muslim work would lose its mind and we would have all sorts of shit going down, in the West and also in Muslim nations. They do like killing each other. The Pakistanis in particular would lose the plot. It is a scenario we need to think about as a possible way the world might overcome global warming. Pakistan has nukes. Iran is close.

 

[Iwasamwillbe]

It is a scenario we need to think about as a possible way the world might overcome global warming. Pakistan has nukes. Iran is close.

Wouldn't there be some massive spiritual death and depression in the Muslim world in the wake of the Kaaba's destruction?

 

[Queen Elizabeth II]

Wouldn't there be some massive spiritual death and depression in the Muslim world in the wake of the Kaaba's destruction?

Not necessarily.

The Ka'ba has been destroyed and rebuilt several times in the past from even during the 7th Century and the Ka'ba we see today is the one from 1996. Literally, the only thing that remains from previous Ka'ba area few stones around the base. It's been destroyed by natural disasters such as a rainstorm that brought down a wall, burned to the ground and even been hit directly by siege weapons.

ISIL itself has declared its desire to destroy the Ka'ba to bring about Qiyamah (the end of days), and blowing it up is the most immediate way to summon Allah and isn't a new idea (I strongly suspect this is where Final Fantasy 13 got the idea of destroying Coccoon summoning the creator deity from).

Which genuinely puzzles me. The destruction of the Ka'ba is one of the greatest and final signs of Qiyamah, but it's happened at least once and often several times nearly every century,

The Muslims would be pissed if the Kufir nuked it, but there's many among their own number praying for that to happen.

 

[Syaoran Li]

If the Kaaba is destroyed, I'd expect a LOT of bad shit to go down in the short-term, especially if it's the United States or Israel that destroys it. Oil prices would be jacked up and there would be a lot of unrest in the Muslim community both in the Middle East and in the West.

As for the long-term effects?

Assuming Pakistan and Iran don't cut loose with the nukes and set off a daisy chain of thermonuclear horror, it could be the event that triggers an Islamic equivalent of the Protestant Reformation or The Enlightenment.

Part of the reason why Islam has remained steadfastly fundamentalist while Christianity largely mellowed out by the start of the 21st Century is because of the disproportionate influence of Wahhabi Islam, which is basically the Sunni Muslim version of the Puritan sects in Britain and the New England colonies in the 1600's, only a lot more violent and influential.

This disproportionate influence is because the Saudi royalty are really big into the Wahabbi sect and heavily promote it across the Middle East. The main reason why they are so successful in their efforts is because the Kaaba and the holy city of Mecca are located in Saudi Arabia, and since pilgrimage to Mecca is a major component of traditional Islam,

 

[Queen Elizabeth II]

The western support of the House of Saud is perhaps the single greatest mistake IMO of the previous century.

The House of Saud rose to power on the back of a very radical and previously uninfluential school of Islam and gave it not only a public soapbox to preach from, but absolute supreme power to subjugate and destroy all the other historically more moderate sects. Wahabbism is tied to the House of Saud the same way Russian Orthodoxy hangs upon the Russian Tsars and other leaders.

By installing the House of Saud in Arabia, the west with no exaggeration created and still endorses the Islamic version of the Republic of Gilead, and we're going to suffer the consequences of this utter retardation for centuries to come.

I think for any major changes to Islam, the House of Saud would have to go first as they essentially control the Sunni Umma at this point and I wouldn't place any bets on them going down anytime before oil becomes a less desirable resource.

Saying that we're probably going to see some changes in Shi'a Islam in the near-ish future because Ayatollah Khomeini made the same mistake the Papacy did; unlike when the Usuli were merely priestly advisors they weren't the fall guy when bad things happen. Now they're leading the circus anything bad that happens can be and is directly attributed to the priesthood and from what it looks like online a whole lot of people have been deeply dissatisfied with clerical rule for a while now.

 

[LetterlandMafia]

By installing the House of Saud in Arabia, the west with no exaggeration created and still endorses the Islamic version of the Republic of Gilead, and we're going to suffer the consequences of this utter exceptionalism for centuries to come.

A good example of this is the radicalisation of West Africa, particularly Mali, Burkina Faso and Nigeria. All of these places were peaceful(ish) up until a few years ago, now they’re hotbeds of Islamic extremism. Coincidentally, Saudi has been funding mosques in the area, which naturally are preaching Wahabism. If Iran was doing this there’d be a huge backlash in the West, but because Saudi has made us dependent on their oil there’s not a peep about this.

 

[Iwasamwillbe]

Not necessarily.

The Ka'ba has been destroyed and rebuilt several times in the past from even during the 7th Century and the Ka'ba we see today is the one from 1996. Literally, the only thing that remains from previous Ka'ba area few stones around the base. It's been destroyed by natural disasters such as a rainstorm that brought down a wall, burned to the ground and even been hit directly by siege weapons.

View attachment 909482

ISIL itself has declared its desire to destroy the Ka'ba to bring about Qiyamah (the end of days), and blowing it up is the most immediate way to summon Allah and isn't a new idea (I strongly suspect this is where Final Fantasy 13 got the idea of destroying Coccoon summoning the creator deity from).

Which genuinely puzzles me. The destruction of the Ka'ba is one of the greatest and final signs of Qiyamah, but it's happened at least once and often several times nearly every century,

The Muslims would be pissed if the Kufir nuked it, but there's many among their own number praying for that to happen.

Well all of those times, the Kaaba was "merely" torn down, with at least some remnant, along with the Black Stone, able to be restored.

In this hypothetical, the Kaaba is completely vaporized, and the Black Stone is too.

 

[Queen Elizabeth II]

Well all of those times, the Kaaba was "merely" torn down, with at least some remnant, along with the Black Stone, able to be restored.

In this hypothetical, the Kaaba is completely vaporized, and the Black Stone is too.

I'm not an Islam expert, but (to my knowledge), the wording of the Koran doesn't specify how the Ka'ba is destroyed, merely that it is. The Black Stone itself has also already been destroyed by 683 during the Seige of Mecca by the Ummayad Caliphate, and suffered further damage during a lone wolf terror attack during the 11th century supposedly under the orders of the Fatamid Caliphate. it was originally a single large rock and now the "Black Stone" we see in the corner of the Ka'ba are just a few fragments cemented together at an unknown date, but certainly by 1850 when British explorers described the appearance and state of it.

I don't know if the average Muslim is aware of these facts or not, I would assume not due to the way I've heard some of them describe the Ka'ba (I've never heard one describe the stone) since they didn't seem aware the current Ka'ba was not the original. Though they weren't the smartest crayons in the book admittedly so idk.

If they do, this has happened before. While deeply offensive, the religion would ultimately adapt to it. Initially, Christians were under the impression Jesus would return before the last of the first generation had died; when it came apparent they had they simply concocted a range of other solutions from the last first generation Christian being in occultation to the words carrying some hither unknown mystical insight. If the Ka'ba was destroyed violently after the initial chaos, it might just lead to some minor changes in eschatology; rather than the destruction of the Ka'ba heralding the end being literal, they might find it to mean the "spiritual" Ka'ba, the ideal in the hearts of believers or some other word salad we've already seen in other Abrahamic faiths like Christianity and Mormonism as they flail to reconcile scriptures with reality.

Sadly proof doesn't always if ever cure religious belief, People like to believe and just finds another gap to fill or excuse to make.

 

[Rice Is Ready]

Israel seems like a better option.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

We're discussing inbreds that shower praise on anyone who memorizes the Koran but place no value on actually understanding the Koran. I wouldn't be surprised if they dismissed the Kaaba/Stone being destroyed several times in the past, by Muslims no less, as Christian propaganda.

If non-Muslims destroy it they would all lose their shit and we'd probaby have to nuke a few countries but if other Muslims did it they'd just kill each other, just like they're doing now except on a larger scale.

 

[DK 699]

There is a lot of talk here about what would happen if a western or zionist force destroyed the Kaaba, but what would happen if it was destroyed by the Republic of India or Hindu Nationalists?

 

[Slap47]

They would literally just rebuild it.

A good example of this is the radicalisation of West Africa, particularly Mali, Burkina Faso and Nigeria. All of these places were peaceful(ish) up until a few years ago, now they’re hotbeds of Islamic extremism. Coincidentally, Saudi has been funding mosques in the area, which naturally are preaching Wahabism. If Iran was doing this there’d be a huge backlash in the West, but because Saudi has made us dependent on their oil there’s not a peep about this.

West Africa got radicalized in the 19th century with the collapse of their societies due to slavery depopulating the region and European encroachment.

Fula jihads - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Sakoto Caliphate enslaved millions of non-Muslims and dominated the region. There was an evangelical Christian movement in the European occupied parts of Nigeria - conditions were ripe for that stuff.

The colonial authorities kept Nigeria at peace by keeping the tribes equal power wise and by letting the Muslims do whatever they want in their communities.

 

[Queen Elizabeth II]

There is a lot of talk here about what would happen if a western or zionist force destroyed the Kaaba, but what would happen if it was destroyed by the Republic of India or Hindu Nationalists?

Very unlikely. India isn't suicidal and the Hindu Nationalists just want the Muslims to get off their lawn. The Muslims would probably have to do something huge first themselves to warrant that level of retaliation .

Edit: Also, just found this rather good picture of the black stone.

There's not really that much left to it.